[W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

[Wan]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

"live human" is wordplay. It doesn't mean anything without further context. Example : "live human sperm".

Just because you cannot counter something, it does not make it "wordplay".

It's kind of like someone debating against another person but he can't handle his opponent's arguments so he cries, "that is just sophistry".

What is your qualification to make that determination?

This isn't even important. Do you not realize you essentially said people should let laws decide for them whether abortion is murder?

Murder is a legal term. It is ILLEGAL killing of a human being. If something (ie abortion, death penalty) is legal, it CANNOT be murder.

Let me give you a thought experiment:

Imagine that starting tomorrow, pro-lifers get into power. They change all the laws so that now abortion is illegal. Will you still think abortion is not murder, or will you now say it is?

 

[<alt>doxygen]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

Just because you cannot counter something, it does not make it "wordplay".

It's kind of like someone debating against another person but he can't handle his opponent's arguments so he cries, "that is just sophistry".

Sure. Because live human sperm, live human zygote, and live human skin cells are all meaningful here.:roll:

:2wave:

You aren't doing this philosophical sophistry very well, but it goes nowhere anyway.

 

[Wan]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

Sure. Because live human sperm, live human zygote, and live human skin cells are all meaningful here.:roll:

But I never even mentioned those things. Why did you bring them up?

 

[Cero]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

look i think its never a choice of everyone else to decide if a baby inside someones vagina is rightfully a part of this world yet. its that persons choice to bring a child into this world for they are the ones creating it. now i want to create a debate here about abortion sub-ruling. if in a marriage should a woman be able to decide to abort without the husbands consent?

 

[Scrabaholic]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

This isn't even important.

So, you do not have the qualifications to make that determination. I understand.

 

[Scrabaholic]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

look i think its never a choice of everyone else to decide if a baby inside someones vagina is rightfully a part of this world yet. its that persons choice to bring a child into this world for they are the ones creating it. now i want to create a debate here about abortion sub-ruling. if in a marriage should a woman be able to decide to abort without the husbands consent?

Yes. It's HER body that is being put at risk and is in great discomfort and pain. Not his.

 

[Wan]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

So, you do not have the qualifications to make that determination. I understand.

I dont care whether you think I have "qualifications" or not. But you fail to address the rest of my post. I noticed this much.

 

[Angel]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

The one where you posted your 'source' (that you now deny) and I bolded and color coded it, showing exactly how you were wrong. It was post 156 in one of the threads and Minnie reposted it a couple of times.

That's one. I'm not going back thru all the rest...you have been incapable of supporting your argument and used this and other avoidance techniques...just admit your failure. It's amazing the lengths you'll go to to attempt to save face 'on the Internetz.' But that post 156 pretty much put an end to all doubt...using the source YOU presented as an attempt to defend your position. (and now try to deny :doh

I've deconstructed the quaglike nonsense of #156 three times, once for Quag and twice for you. You are in bad faith, ma'am. Please try to annoy some other less savvy member.

 

[code1211]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

Show that this ever happens.

Okay. You feel that a woman who is seeking an abortion on the day when her baby's head is crowning is having a good day.

This sounds just a bit ghoulish.

Is there a club for people with this hobby?

 

[code1211]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

I said no elective abortions occur past 24 weeks gestation. What Gosnell did was murder since the baby was born alive and then killed. He was not aborted. In fact Gosnell did not even try to abort those past 20 weeks. He induced labor and killed the babies that were born alive.

(I removed the image from your post because it is against forum rules to post or repost such images .)

I was very hesitant to use that image and I did not in any previous discussion.

YOU said that elective abortions NEVER occur past 24 weeks. Out of curiosity, how do you characterize an abortion requested by a potential mother completed after 24 weeks as this one obviously was?

Are you saying that this was not an abortion? Not elective? You're twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to deny what is actually happening in the real world.

The things you claim to believe on this topic are obviously not true.

Why do you cling to these obvious untruths?

 

[code1211]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

Doesn’t matter since the Born Alive Federal Act overrules any and all state laws.

Right...

That's why nobody in Colorado smokes weed.

 

[code1211]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

If criminals break laws They can put them in Jail.

Gosnell broke laws and is now spending the rest of his life in jail.

Gosnell had been the target of law suits and liens for literally decades. Over the years, various women were injured by his greedy, ruthless and careless practices.

His "clinic" in Philidelphia was was never inspected between 1993 and 2010 at the time of the raid leading to his arrest.

Astonishingly, in Pennsylvania, if the "clinic" was an abortion clinic, the LAW that you seem to think protects citizens dictated that Abortion Clinics did not need to be inspected a were actual clinics.

Kermit Gosnell - Wikipedia

Kermit Gosnell was just the beginning — gruesome abortion doctors operate with impunity around the country
<snip>
Tragically, there are other Gosnell-type abortionists operating today with impunity.

Much of what Gosnell did illegally is being done legally in other states that do not have Pennsylvania’s 24-week abortion limit.

Abortion doctors in Maryland and New Mexico openly advertise late second- and even third-trimester abortions online, and this ugly truth is mostly, inexplicably, ignored by the media.
<snip>

AbortionClinics.org | Maryland Late term abortion, third trimester abortion, abortion after 27 weeks

 

[code1211]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

You do understand that Gosnell was convicted of his crimes, right? And did you hear a pushback on that from the pro-choice contingent?

What Gosnell did was against the law. Period. So what is your point? That crimes happen?

Having laws on the books do not prevent all crimes. He received life without parole plus 30 years. Where is the push back on that? There is none.

I am curious....do you support abortion clinic bombings and murdering doctors who perform abortions?

I don't support illegal violence. What in the world would create that question in your mind?

Gosnell's "clinic" operated from 1993 through 2011 with absolutely no inspections conducted by any government agency at any time for any reason.

When the raid finally occurred, it was to check on the illegal drug trade being conducted there.

Inspections of Abortion Clinics had been legally banned by the State of Pennsylvania during the Administration of Governor Tom Ridge.

Gosnell's actions were both understood and endorsed by the Government of Pennsylvania.

 

[code1211]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

Gosnell is behind bars.

Killing a baby after birth is illegal.

Killing a baby after birth is not abortion.

So, What you're saying is that the Governor of Virginia is sanctioning murder.

Got it!

 

[year2late]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

So, What you're saying is that the Governor of Virginia is sanctioning murder.

Got it!

What babies are legally being killed after birth and how?

 

[code1211]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

What did I lie to you about, if anything ?

It's possible that you think that an abortion to end a human life does not end a human life.

That could be an honest misunderstanding that you hold.

I don't know how that is supportable, but it could be an honest misunderstanding.

If the remains of a 24 week old fetus somehow arrived on Earth from Mars, this would be front page news around the world above the fold and lead every news show for weeks.

LIFE ON MARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In the procedure room of a building behind a tall fence in a not so great part of town, not so much.

 

[Angel]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

...

If the remains of a 24 week old fetus somehow arrived on Earth from Mars, this would be front page news around the world above the fold and lead every news show for weeks.

LIFE ON MARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...

Or even: EMBRYO FROM MARS: WE ARE NOT ALONE!

 

[year2late]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

Or even: EMBRYO FROM MARS: WE ARE NOT ALONE!

I am not an embryo, just a tiny born Martian!

 

[<alt>doxygen]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

But I never even mentioned those things. Why did you bring them up?

From post #785 by you:

One thing I know is that a zygote is a live human, and this is good enough for me.

Do you have a point or an argument? Maybe try just presenting it?

 

[Lursa]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

I've deconstructed the quaglike nonsense of #156 three times, once for Quag and twice for you. You are in bad faith, ma'am. Please try to annoy some other less savvy member.

Post numbers then please. I only saw you deny it's validity once we ripped it apart.

It is you that are posting in bad faith.

 

[Lursa]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

Okay. You feel that a woman who is seeking an abortion on the day when her baby's head is crowning is having a good day.

This sounds just a bit ghoulish.

Is there a club for people with this hobby?

Do you have any sources that show any such elective abortions take place as you described?

If not, it is you who is disturbingly ghoulish to imagine such tragic garbage...and it shows an extreme irrationality because there's no reason for a woman at that point to do so. She could just choose to put a healthy baby up for adoption and receive about $20,000 for it.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

I am not an embryo, just a tiny born Martian!

View attachment 67255239

Does the fertilized ovum that never managed to attach to the uterus also have the status of "preborn", "unborn" or whatever? Is no one saddened by their passing?

I'm left thinking that, if there is a god, that god didn't really care much about this stuff. 7 out of 10 was good enough.

 

[Lursa]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

Gosnell had been the target of law suits and liens for literally decades. Over the years, various women were injured by his greedy, ruthless and careless practices.

His "clinic" in Philidelphia was was never inspected between 1993 and 2010 at the time of the raid leading to his arrest.

Another post lacking in rationality.

What Gosnell was doing was *against the law, multiple laws, at the time.* If the govt was lacking in enforcement, that's a completely different issue.

The laws were in place. Is it your belief that laws prevent all criminal acts? (It appears you do from your writing, hence my observation that your post is not rational)

 

[Scrabaholic]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

Okay. You feel that a woman who is seeking an abortion on the day when her baby's head is crowning is having a good day.

This sounds just a bit ghoulish.

Is there a club for people with this hobby?

Please do not lie about me again.

 

[Wan]

re: [W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

From post #785 by you:


Do you have a point or an argument? Maybe try just presenting it?

Yes I did say that a zygote is a live human, however it's different from saying "live human zygote". I am sorry to hear that you were unable to distinguish the two.

Furthermore, I NEVER said "live human sperm" nor "live human skin cells". You are literally putting words in my mouth.