Vaccines are failing...making mandates irrelevant.

[justabubba]

Vaccines are failing...making mandates irrelevant.​

were you wrong before or are you wrong now?

your title expresses that vaccine mandates were previously relevant

 

[jaeger19]

My problem is with a vaccine that is not believed to be effective against Omicron that the head of Phizer himself said would not support protection against future variants, and that if potentially effective it is believed to lose efficacy in under 10 weeks, resulting in the need for MORE frequent boosters...of the same vaccine that is believed to not not support protection against future variants, and that if potentially effective it is believed to lose efficacy in under 10 weeks, resulting in the need for MORE frequent boosters. My problem also is with the development of ADE which will render the bodies own natural immune system ineffective, making normally healthy people vulnerable to greater illness from common ailments.

But hey...I personally dont give the first **** if you get jabbed every 10 weeks or however many times you are told to like a good little follower.

Yeah.. I see the problem. You don;t understand the science and so.. you are following the right wing rhetoric like a good little follower.

The science out now shows that the US vaccines.. moderna, pfizer and J and J are effective for varying degrees of stopping covid infection all together. Even omicron. They are also very effective in stopping a breakthrough infection into becoming a hospitalization or death.
With a booster. The effectiveness goes up.
Most boosters were suggested starting at 6 months after vaccination. Not "10 weeks" and thats for elderly and immunosuppressed.

My booster was due at a year. And frankly with my age group and health history its questionable whether I needed to be boosted at all but with the delta and now omicron booster.. I am glad I did it. Why not.? Its not like its going to in anyway hurt me.. and it simply reduces the likilihood I could get covid and pass it to someone unknowingly.

Its seems to me.. that if you simply started listening to the medical providers.. you would be a lot better informed and a lot less angry.

 

[Chainsawmassacre]

U.S. study suggests vaccines may be ineffective against Omicron without booster

All three U.S.-authorized COVID-19 vaccines appear to be significantly less protective against the newly-detected Omicron variant of the coronavirus in laboratory testing, but a booster dose likely restores most of the protection, according to a study released on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

No.. you have not seen that the vaccines in the US aren;t effective against it.
But you are free to show your evidence.

U.S. study suggests vaccines may be ineffective against Omicron without booster

All three U.S.-authorized COVID-19 vaccines appear to be significantly less protective against the newly-detected Omicron variant of the coronavirus in laboratory testing, but a booster dose likely restores most of the protection, according to a study released on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

 

[Gateman_Wen]

It's becoming increasingly clear that the faith in vaccines has been dashed by reality. Their effectiveness quickly wanes, mutations render them largely ineffective, and the dangers of continued and the need for repeated use of "boosters" make them a failed long term solution.

Blaming the unvaccinated and screaming for mandated vaccination using increasingly ineffective vaccines is at best pointless, at worst very dangerous.

Frequent Boosters Spur Warning on Immune Response (Correct)

European Union regulators warned that frequent Covid-19 booster shots could adversely affect the immune response and may not be feasible.

news.bloomberglaw.com

and


https://www.who.int/news/item/11-01...dvisory-group-on-covid-19-vaccine-composition

Then why are the hospitals filled with unvaccinated patients?

 

[jaeger19]

U.S. study suggests vaccines may be ineffective against Omicron without booster

All three U.S.-authorized COVID-19 vaccines appear to be significantly less protective against the newly-detected Omicron variant of the coronavirus in laboratory testing, but a booster dose likely restores most of the protection, according to a study released on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

U.S. study suggests vaccines may be ineffective against Omicron without booster

All three U.S.-authorized COVID-19 vaccines appear to be significantly less protective against the newly-detected Omicron variant of the coronavirus in laboratory testing, but a booster dose likely restores most of the protection, according to a study released on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

Yep...
Its not a study of infection and vaccination.
Studies of real world data show that two doses of Pfizer protected from Omicron infection to about 40%.
And a booster brought it up about 80% protection from infection.

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/12/14/the-latest-on-the-omicron-variant-and-vaccine-protection/

 

[jaeger19]

The initial reports were that the COVID was 90% effective against pre variant viral contact...effective meaning NOT that it would prevent infection or prevent spreading but prevent severity. Today that number is unknown with regard to variants and where assumed 'effective', begins rapidly losing efficacy within 10 weeks.
"Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla openly stated current vaccines the company developed for Wuhan coronavirus offer "limited, if any" protection against contracting current variants of the disease. He then encouraged booster shots. “Two doses of the vaccine offers very limited protection, if any. 3 doses with a booster offer reasonable protection against hospitalization and deaths."

Umm.. no. For the initial covid strain.. the vaccine was 90% against getting infected in the first place.
We learned that after 6 months or so that protection from infection began to wane.. about 4-7% every month.
With delta.. the protection of fully vaccinated was about 60-80% preventing infection and less if you were further than 6 months out from full vaccination.. down to about 50%.
With omicron.. its about 40% prevention of infection.

However.. with a booster.. prevention from infection rises with all strains back into the 70 to 90% range.

 

[Chainsawmassacre]

Yep...
Its not a study of infection and vaccination.
Studies of real world data show that two doses of Pfizer protected from Omicron infection to about 40%.
And a booster brought it up about 80% protection from infection.

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/12/14/the-latest-on-the-omicron-variant-and-vaccine-protection/

Have a source? What I posted says a booster “likely” restores much of the protection which means nothing.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Moreover, there are now indications that the vaccine effect is turning NEGATIVE.

Claim vaccines increase susceptibility to omicron unfounded

Misleading. The observational study found that vaccines protect against infection from the variant but wanes over time, and protection is elevated with a booster.

apnews.com

CLAIM: A new study found that, after 90 days, the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines increase the chances that someone who is vaccinated will be infected with the omicron variant.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: Misleading. The observational study found that vaccines protect against infection from the variant but wanes over time, and protection is elevated with a booster. While the study results showed “negative” effectiveness 90 days after someone has been fully vaccinated with two doses, a study author and experts say that is likely the result of bias in the data, not an indication that vaccines are harming recipients.

THE FACTS: Multiple conservative blogs ran headlines purporting that the study showed that, after 90 days, the vaccines “increase probability” of being infected with omicron, or make infection “more likely.”

One widely shared tweet claimed that the study “indicates that the mRNA vaccines protect for a few weeks only but then SIGNIFICANTLY AUGMENT Omicron infectivity.”

But one of the authors of the study says its findings are being misrepresented.

“Interpretation that our research is evidence of anything but a protective vaccine effect is misrepresentative,” co-author Christian Holm Hansen, a medical statistician and epidemiologist with the Statens Serum Institut in Denmark and the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, told The Associated Press in an email.

The study being cited is a preprint — meaning it has not yet been peer-reviewed — that examined data during the first 20 days of omicron being detected in Denmark. It is observational, not a randomized controlled trial, and calculated vaccine effectiveness by comparing infection rates among the vaccinated population versus the unvaccinated.

Hansen said the study shows the Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines provide protection against infection with the omicron variant, but it’s lower than the protection afforded against infection with the delta variant — and declines in a matter of months. A booster shot of Pfizer’s vaccine re-establishes that protection, he said.

Importantly, the study did not look at the vaccines’ protection in terms of COVID-19 outcomes. Early research suggest that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines continue to be effective at preventing serious illness, hospitalization and death against omicron.

The specific point being cited online to suggest the vaccines are harmful concerns the study’s finding that, after 90 days, the vaccine effectiveness against infection with omicron was calculated to be below zero — which would suggest in theory that it increases chances of contracting the virus.

However, the study explains that “the negative estimates in the final period arguably suggest different behaviour and/or exposure patterns in the vaccinated and unvaccinated cohorts causing underestimation” of vaccine effectiveness.

Hansen said there are a “number of reasons” why the estimate might be negative, noting that biases are “quite common” in calculating effectiveness with observational studies. In other words, other factors are causing the vaccine to appear less effective.

The underestimates could be the product of vaccinated individuals being tested more frequently, therefore resulting in a higher incidence rate, he said. Also, behavioral differences, such as vaccinated individuals engaging in more activities that could lead to exposure, could be at play, he said.

Natalie Dean, an assistant professor of biostatistics at Emory University whose research includes methods for evaluating vaccine efficacy, said in an email that while the vaccines are less effective against infection with omicron, there is no real-world evidence that scientists are aware of that would explain the vaccines’ effectiveness actually being below zero.

Instead, she agreed that the negative results in the study were “highly likely to be due to bias in the data.”

As an example, she said, high vaccination rates mean that the “pool of people who are unvaccinated is comparatively small and may be fundamentally different in terms of risk or testing behavior.” More than 78% of people in Demark are fully vaccinated against COVID-19.

Jeffrey Morris, director of the division of biostatistics at the University of Pennsylvania’s Perelman School of Medicine, shared similar observations. He said in an email that the results were “more likely to be an artifact of some selection bias effect than any inherently higher risk.”

 

[W_Heisenberg]

"Not likely" is about as reassuring as the prior promise that it was "not likely that CV-19 escaped from a Chinese lab". Oh really?

We don't know if Covid-19 escaped from a Chinese lab. There is not enough evidence for that. So, stop writing your posts as if the lab escape theory has been proven. It hasn't.

 

[CLAX1911]

were you wrong before or are you wrong now?

your title expresses that vaccine mandates were previously relevant

Disagree mandates are of no value.

The mandate isn't every man woman and child be vaccinated it's that only people who work with companies that have 100 or more employees be vaccinated I mean everyone that works for the company that has 99 or less doesn't have to be.

People who don't work for a company they're either domestic spouses or unemployed teenagers children or self-employed don't have to get vaccinated.

It's trying to do it through occupational safety and this isn't part of occupational safety. OSHA doesn't mandate any other vaccine.

 

[MaryP]

Pure conspiracy theory nonsense. We get the flu vaccine yearly.
There is no evidence of "cumulative effects" or serious long term "damage" of any kind.

The flu vaccines are different every year, depending on which strains seem to be most prevalent.

 

[roguenuke]

The purpose of the mandates is prevent/slow the transmission of the virus to coworkers. The data clearly shows that the vaccines do not do this.

The data clearly shows that you are wrong, since it does reduce transmission. But it isn't just to prevent/slow transmission, but also to protect workers.

 

[jaeger19]

Have a source? What I posted says a booster “likely” restores much of the protection which means nothing.

Yeah.. I provided the link to the sources. What you posted was evidence of levels of neutralizing antibodies that are produced in response to omicron. And while that was concerning, neutralizing antibodies is not the totality of the human immune response. Which is why protection is less with omicron.. but still present to some degree. And with a booster.. it appears in real world data to provide protection against infection in that 80% range
.

 

[roguenuke]

So there was a specific number of people that were supposed to die in 2020?

I don't care if you believe my claim or not.

The reason conspiracy theories exist is for an explanation for why the government lies and why you eat it up.

The life you're living right now will never go back to normal this is your normal now and that was the point of this whole endeavor to take away your freedoms that's why they did it.

And everything you say is to the end of justifying them taking away our freedoms and that's why there are conspiracies you simply must be resisted at all costs. You represent compliance with dictatorship.

There is always an average expected number of people to die for every year, and you can even compare by month. It will be an average (I believe it is weighted, with certain data kept in mind for how to determine expected deaths). Since there are not that many changes for people when it comes to what normally kills us year to year, that means that without some massive event, especially for large countries, the deaths should average around the same amount each year.

Our freedoms?

I am about taking necessary steps to save lives.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

You LITERALLY accuse one of the smartest people on the planet regarding development of the mRNA platforms as either an idiot or liar based not on ANYTHING you might know but because he disagrees with the administration bullshit that you have swallowed.

Thats the worst kind of stupid.

Wait, what about all the other scientists. Why don't their opinions matter to you? Why do you accept Malone's opinion but all the other scientists are just "stupid libs" as you call them?

 

[MaryP]

When a country has a 90%+ vaccination rate it is only logical the largest numbers of breakthroughs will be amongst the vaccinated

Thank you for explaining that. That chart was scaring me.

 

[CLAX1911]

The flu vaccines are different every year, depending on which strains seem to be most prevalent.

There are over 100 variants of covid-19 and that's just one strain.

This is a good thing though because viruses reproduce and reinfect. If something prevents them from reproducing or infecting it mutates. That's why there's different strains of the flu they were probably very Inc at one time that just diverged so much that they became different strains.

This is how evolution works.

It is a good thing because the more it progresses the more antibodies we build up to be able to fight it to the point it either extinguishes or becomes unnoticeable.

It doesn't get worse it becomes more transmissible and more survivable.

 

[Fledermaus]

Read all of my posts and their links.

Vaccines are saving lives therefore they are not failing.

 

[Fledermaus]

U.S. study suggests vaccines may be ineffective against Omicron without booster

All three U.S.-authorized COVID-19 vaccines appear to be significantly less protective against the newly-detected Omicron variant of the coronavirus in laboratory testing, but a booster dose likely restores most of the protection, according to a study released on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

U.S. study suggests vaccines may be ineffective against Omicron without booster

All three U.S.-authorized COVID-19 vaccines appear to be significantly less protective against the newly-detected Omicron variant of the coronavirus in laboratory testing, but a booster dose likely restores most of the protection, according to a study released on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

Less effective =/= Not effective

 

[NoMoreDems-Reps]

Well, were are here talking about what was forced on us, but it seems that it was all by desing.

Military Documents About Gain of Function Contradict Fauci Testimony Under Oath | Project Veritas

Investigating and exposing corruption in both public and private institutions.

www.projectveritas.com

 

[Ethel2]

Well if that's your reasoning I support it. Anybody who wants the vaccine should be able to get it.

The hospitals are overwhelmed.
That’s one reason I support vaccine mandates

 

[CLAX1911]

There is always an average expected number of people to die for every year, and you can even compare by month.

So there were predetermined people to die in 2020?

It will be an average (I believe it is weighted, with certain data kept in mind for how to determine expected deaths).

Okay so it is now an incumbent upon you to prove that those deaths were from covid and nothing else.

Since there are that many changes for people when it comes to what normally kills us year to year, that means that without some massive event, especially for large countries, the deaths should average around the same amount each year.

There were actually multiple massive events. Some natural some unnatural.

Our freedoms?

I am about taking necessary steps to save lives.

That's what every dictator does.

Further none of the policies that were put into place saved a single life case in point 1 million more deaths despite the policies.

So I do think freedoms are more important than broken or stupid things that don't work.

Further if this was about saving lives then the mandate wouldn't be coming from OSHA. Ocean mandates only affect people who are employed by companies with more than 100 employees. It doesn't do anything about people who are unemployed. People who are self-employed people who are employed by companies with less than 100 employees. If it was about saving lives there wouldn't be this giant gaping hole in the solution that anyone with three or four brain cells can spot.

So spare me your disingenuous twaddle. For you it is about tribalism and forcing on to others what you think they need to be forced into. If it's not you should absolutely be against this mandate. You should be saying it should be mandated for every man woman and child alive regardless of health conditions regardless of religious objections.

You can believe that lie all you want I don't.

 

[roguenuke]

So there were predetermined people to die in 2020?

Okay so it is now an incumbent upon you to prove that those deaths were from covid and nothing else.

There were actually multiple massive events. Some natural some unnatural.

That's what every dictator does.

Further none of the policies that were put into place saved a single life case in point 1 million more deaths despite the policies.

So I do think freedoms are more important than broken or stupid things that don't work.

Further if this was about saving lives then the mandate wouldn't be coming from OSHA. Ocean mandates only affect people who are employed by companies with more than 100 employees. It doesn't do anything about people who are unemployed. People who are self-employed people who are employed by companies with less than 100 employees. If it was about saving lives there wouldn't be this giant gaping hole in the solution that anyone with three or four brain cells can spot.

So spare me your disingenuous twaddle. For you it is about tribalism and forcing on to others what you think they need to be forced into. If it's not you should absolutely be against this mandate. You should be saying it should be mandated for every man woman and child alive regardless of health conditions regardless of religious objections.

You can believe that lie all you want I don't.

There were several natural events in that time, but they did not cumulative kill over 200k people.

Hyperbole does not really suit this argument.

Vaccines work just fine for what they are meant for.

OSHA affects those who work. So yes, that vaccinate or weekly test/mask requirement only affects those at work, in jobs.

For me it is doing as much as can be done within laws, work with every possible route we have to get people vaccinated.

 

[CLAX1911]

The hospitals are overwhelmed.
That’s the reason I support vaccine mandates

That's why you shouldn't support this particular mandate. It's not a mandate that people get vaccinated. It's a mandate that only people employed by a company with 100 or more employees get vaccinated or not but get tested.

So you have all of the people who are not employed who are self-employed who are employed by a company within 99 employees or less, that aren't mandated to get the vaccine.

Employers that employ fewer than 100 people represent 98% of employers in the US.

Further any company that has a hundred employees or more can change the structure of the company by saying they don't have any employees they have contractors.

This mandate does absolutely nothing.

 

[justabubba]

Disagree mandates are of no value.

The mandate isn't every man woman and child be vaccinated it's that only people who work with companies that have 100 or more employees be vaccinated I mean everyone that works for the company that has 99 or less doesn't have to be.

People who don't work for a company they're either domestic spouses or unemployed teenagers children or self-employed don't have to get vaccinated.

It's trying to do it through occupational safety and this isn't part of occupational safety. OSHA doesn't mandate any other vaccine.

bzzzzzzztttt!!!!!

wrong

Vaccines are failing...making mandates irrelevant.​

that headline tells us that the mandates that WERE RELEVANT before are no longer relevant due to the waning benefit of the vaccine

the OP says so. it's expressed in his thread title, shown above ^

but thanks for playing. please come again