Vaccines and Autism.[W:390]

[Missed AB]

For the record, I am an educated registered professional working medical field (I will leave my profession blank here for obvious reasons). I have always heard the fringe anti vaccine groups and I have always put them off as being kooks and ill informed. They blame mercury for autism, when significant amounts of thimerosal have been removed for the past 10 to 15 years from all vaccines...

Then My son gets diagnosed with autism.

I start doing some research, and I read on some random website the amount of aluminum vaccines... I thought to my self, WHAT? That's got to be a typo.

Then I went to some "real" websites, and I could not believe what I was reading. 250-500 mcg (brand dependent) for the hep B shot given to every newborn before they leave the hospital... which my son got - despite being dehydrated for 2 days because my wife was not making any milk and the la-lacha nurse encouraging her to not bottle feed... (day 3 onward he was on formula).

Here's an example of a first schedule vaccination and the amount of aluminum.
HIB = 225 mcg
Pc = 125 mcg
DTap = 170 to 625 (depending on brand)
Hep B = 250 mcg

The FDA originally stated aluminum should not exceed 5mcg/kg/d. This was then reiterated by the NIH COPPER 0.4 mg/mLCupric ChlorideInjection, USP "WARNING: This product contains aluminum that may be toxic... Research indicates that patients with impaired kidney function, including premature neonates, who receive parentaral levels of aluminum at greater than 4 to 5 mcg/kg/day accumulate aluminum at levels associated with central nervous system and bone toxicity. Tissue loading may occur at even lower rates of administration."

Interestingly, as an aside here, the FDA has recently altered it's safe dosing schedule to an annual amount for vaccinations. This is like saying you can take 1 KG of tylenol annually... And the calculation is based on 5 mcg/kg/day x 365. Yet, for perential nutrition they state the safe dose is 25 mcg/day.

Anyway I then came across this study: Aluminum vaccine adjuvants: are they safe? [Curr Med Chem. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

"Aluminum is an experimentally demonstrated neurotoxin and the most commonly used vaccine adjuvant. Despite almost 90 years of widespread use of aluminum adjuvants, medical science's understanding about their mechanisms of action is still remarkably poor. There is also a concerning scarcity of data on toxicology and pharmacokinetics of these compounds. In spite of this, the notion that aluminum in vaccines is safe appears to be widely accepted. Experimental research, however, clearly shows that aluminum adjuvants have a potential to induce serious immunological disorders in humans. In particular, aluminum in adjuvant form carries a risk for autoimmunity, long-term brain inflammation and associated neurological complications and may thus have profound and widespread adverse health consequences. In our opinion, the possibility that vaccine benefits may have been overrated and the risk of potential adverse effects underestimated, has not been rigorously evaluated in the medical and scientific community. We hope that the present paper will provide a framework for a much needed and long overdue assessment of this highly contentious medical issue."

Further reading came across this study: Do aluminum vaccine adjuvants contribute to ... [J Inorg Biochem. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

"... if exposure to Al from only few vaccines can lead to cognitive impairment and autoimmunity in adults, is it unreasonable to question whether the current pediatric schedules, often containing 18 Al adjuvanted vaccines, are safe for children?... exposure to Al from vaccines could be contributing to the rise in ASD prevalence in the Western world. Our results show that: (i) children from countries with the highest ASD prevalence appear to have the highest exposure to Al from vaccines; (ii) the increase in exposure to Al adjuvants significantly correlates with the increase in ASD prevalence in the United States observed over the last two decades (Pearson r=0.92, p<0.0001); and (iii) a significant correlation exists between the amounts of Al administered to preschool children and the current prevalence of ASD in seven Western countries, particularly at 3-4 months of age (Pearson r=0.89-0.94, p=0.0018-0.0248). The application of the Hill's criteria to these data indicates that the correlation between Al in vaccines and ASD may be causal. Because children represent a fraction of the population most at risk for complications following exposure to Al, a more rigorous evaluation of Al adjuvant safety seems warranted."

All constructive thoughts are welcomed.

 

[Paschendale]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

Nothing in vaccines causes autism. Nothing at all does. The recent rise of autism comes from 1) greater recognition and identification of those suffering from it, 2) expansion of the definitions of autism to include similar conditions that were not previously recognized as such, and 3) more effective medical technologies that allow more autistic children to survive complications and live long enough to be visible. The difference is not fewer healthy kids. The difference is more awareness.

And even if it did, the lives saved by vaccinations WAY outweigh the number of children who develop autism, for any reason.

Welcome to the anti-vaccine fringe.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

I've only heard concern about a preservative used in some vaccines that contain mercury. I've also heard that there has been no proven link between vaccines and autism.

That said, I can see logic in not putting mercury into any human. Since there are vaccines without this preservative, it makes sense to me to use those instead.

 

[Missed AB]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

And even if it did, the lives saved by vaccinations WAY outweigh the number of children who develop autism, for any reason. Welcome to the anti-vaccine fringe.

That is NOT what I am suggesting.

My point if you took the time to read was not about vaccines, but about ALUMINUM and how ALUMINUM IS PROCESSED BY THE IMMUNE SYSTEM IS NOT WELL UNDERSTOOD. AND IS GIVEN WELL ABOVE THE RECOMMENDED SAFE DOSES WITHOUT ANY RIGOROUS STUDIES!

Nothing in vaccines causes autism. Nothing at all does.

Your statement is enough evidence that you do not understand the written language or you do not understand that ALL disease (except for idopathic) do have causes. These can be genetic, environmental, auto-immune...

The recent rise of autism comes from 1) greater recognition and identification of those suffering from it, 2) expansion of the definitions of autism to include similar conditions that were not previously recognized as such, and

1. I have quoted NIH reports, maybe you could back your argument up with something?
2. I agree that education has improved the diagnosis process which will increase overall numbers, however the quantity of the increase including co-horting other diagnosis under the autism umbrella being the sole cause has actually been discredited already.
3. However, lets assume you are correct, where are all the 20 and 30 and 40 something autistics living? Current rates have male autism (2008) rates at 1:54. CDC - Data and Statistics, Autism Spectrum Disorders - NCBDDD

3) more effective medical technologies that allow more autistic children to survive complications and live long enough to be visible.

Autism is a disease categorized by social, speech, and motor impairment. Specifically what complication are you referring to that has historically killed off the autistic?

You don't seem to really know what you are discussing...

 

[Missed AB]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

I've only heard concern about a preservative used in some vaccines that contain mercury. I've also heard that there has been no proven link between vaccines and autism.

That said, I can see logic in not putting mercury into any human. Since there are vaccines without this preservative, it makes sense to me to use those instead.

It is actually aluminum that seems to be the problem. It is in most all vaccines in doses 20 - 50 times the FDA and NIH safe limits. Furthermore studies have shown developed nations rates of autism statistically correlate with scheduled vaccine and aluminum micro grams received...

Aluminum and Vaccine Ingredients

"Aluminum is a heavy metal with known neurotoxic effects on human and animal nervous systems. It can be found in the following childhood vaccines – DTaP, Pediarix (DTaP-Hepatitis B-Polio combination), Pentacel (DTaP-HIB-Polio combination), Hepatitis A, Hepatitis B, Haemophilus influenzae B (HIB), Human Papilloma Virus (HPV), and Pneumococcal vaccines.[2]"

I've also heard that there has been no proven link between vaccines and autism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22099159

a significant correlation exists between the amounts of Al administered to preschool children and the current prevalence of ASD in seven Western countries, particularly at 3-4 months of age (Pearson r=0.89-0.94, p=0.0018-0.0248). The application of the Hill's criteria to these data indicates that the correlation between Al in vaccines and ASD may be causal.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

This fringe nonsense was first postulated and rebutted back in 2009. Aluminium is the third most common element on the planet. It's everywhere, naturally. It's in fruit and other foodstuffs, naturally. The tiny amount in a given vaccination is miniscule in comparison to your natural daily intake.

 

[PirateMk1]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

For the record, I am an educated registered professional working medical field (I will leave my profession blank here for obvious reasons). I have always heard the fringe anti vaccine groups and I have always put them off as being kooks and ill informed. They blame mercury for autism, when significant amounts of thimerosal have been removed for the past 10 to 15 years from all vaccines...

Then My son gets diagnosed with autism.

I start doing some research, and I read on some random website the amount of aluminum vaccines... I thought to my self, WHAT? That's got to be a typo.

Then I went to some "real" websites, and I could not believe what I was reading. 250-500 mcg (brand dependent) for the hep B shot given to every newborn before they leave the hospital... which my son got - despite being dehydrated for 2 days because my wife was not making any milk and the la-lacha nurse encouraging her to not bottle feed... (day 3 onward he was on formula).

Here's an example of a first schedule vaccination and the amount of aluminum.
HIB = 225 mcg
Pc = 125 mcg
DTap = 170 to 625 (depending on brand)
Hep B = 250 mcg

The FDA originally stated aluminum should not exceed 5mcg/kg/d. This was then reiterated by the NIH COPPER 0.4 mg/mLCupric ChlorideInjection, USP "WARNING: This product contains aluminum that may be toxic... Research indicates that patients with impaired kidney function, including premature neonates, who receive parentaral levels of aluminum at greater than 4 to 5 mcg/kg/day accumulate aluminum at levels associated with central nervous system and bone toxicity. Tissue loading may occur at even lower rates of administration."

Interestingly, as an aside here, the FDA has recently altered it's safe dosing schedule to an annual amount for vaccinations. This is like saying you can take 1 KG of tylenol annually... And the calculation is based on 5 mcg/kg/day x 365. Yet, for perential nutrition they state the safe dose is 25 mcg/day.

Anyway I then came across this study: Aluminum vaccine adjuvants: are they safe? [Curr Med Chem. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

"Aluminum is an experimentally demonstrated neurotoxin and the most commonly used vaccine adjuvant. Despite almost 90 years of widespread use of aluminum adjuvants, medical science's understanding about their mechanisms of action is still remarkably poor. There is also a concerning scarcity of data on toxicology and pharmacokinetics of these compounds. In spite of this, the notion that aluminum in vaccines is safe appears to be widely accepted. Experimental research, however, clearly shows that aluminum adjuvants have a potential to induce serious immunological disorders in humans. In particular, aluminum in adjuvant form carries a risk for autoimmunity, long-term brain inflammation and associated neurological complications and may thus have profound and widespread adverse health consequences. In our opinion, the possibility that vaccine benefits may have been overrated and the risk of potential adverse effects underestimated, has not been rigorously evaluated in the medical and scientific community. We hope that the present paper will provide a framework for a much needed and long overdue assessment of this highly contentious medical issue."

Further reading came across this study: Do aluminum vaccine adjuvants contribute to ... [J Inorg Biochem. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

"... if exposure to Al from only few vaccines can lead to cognitive impairment and autoimmunity in adults, is it unreasonable to question whether the current pediatric schedules, often containing 18 Al adjuvanted vaccines, are safe for children?... exposure to Al from vaccines could be contributing to the rise in ASD prevalence in the Western world. Our results show that: (i) children from countries with the highest ASD prevalence appear to have the highest exposure to Al from vaccines; (ii) the increase in exposure to Al adjuvants significantly correlates with the increase in ASD prevalence in the United States observed over the last two decades (Pearson r=0.92, p<0.0001); and (iii) a significant correlation exists between the amounts of Al administered to preschool children and the current prevalence of ASD in seven Western countries, particularly at 3-4 months of age (Pearson r=0.89-0.94, p=0.0018-0.0248). The application of the Hill's criteria to these data indicates that the correlation between Al in vaccines and ASD may be causal. Because children represent a fraction of the population most at risk for complications following exposure to Al, a more rigorous evaluation of Al adjuvant safety seems warranted."

All constructive thoughts are welcomed.

Problem I see is the actual need for the adjuvant, without which the vaccine would be ineffectual in a small dosage. I would say that the best way to avoid this problem would be to vaccinate at a latter age where the brain is much more developed and just limit the vaccines to the absolute barest essentials. Since you are a professional what adjuvants would you use that are less toxic to the neurological system?

 

[Fiddytree]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

I take it that we in the ASD umbrella are on path to an early death. :lol:

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

For the record, I am an educated registered professional working medical field (I will leave my profession blank here for obvious reasons). I have always heard the fringe anti vaccine groups and I have always put them off as being kooks and ill informed. They blame mercury for autism, when significant amounts of thimerosal have been removed for the past 10 to 15 years from all vaccines...

Then My son gets diagnosed with autism.

I start doing some research, and I read on some random website the amount of aluminum vaccines... I thought to my self, WHAT? That's got to be a typo.

Then I went to some "real" websites, and I could not believe what I was reading. 250-500 mcg (brand dependent) for the hep B shot given to every newborn before they leave the hospital... which my son got - despite being dehydrated for 2 days because my wife was not making any milk and the la-lacha nurse encouraging her to not bottle feed... (day 3 onward he was on formula).

Here's an example of a first schedule vaccination and the amount of aluminum.
HIB = 225 mcg
Pc = 125 mcg
DTap = 170 to 625 (depending on brand)
Hep B = 250 mcg

The FDA originally stated aluminum should not exceed 5mcg/kg/d. This was then reiterated by the NIH COPPER 0.4 mg/mLCupric ChlorideInjection, USP "WARNING: This product contains aluminum that may be toxic... Research indicates that patients with impaired kidney function, including premature neonates, who receive parentaral levels of aluminum at greater than 4 to 5 mcg/kg/day accumulate aluminum at levels associated with central nervous system and bone toxicity. Tissue loading may occur at even lower rates of administration."

Interestingly, as an aside here, the FDA has recently altered it's safe dosing schedule to an annual amount for vaccinations. This is like saying you can take 1 KG of tylenol annually... And the calculation is based on 5 mcg/kg/day x 365. Yet, for perential nutrition they state the safe dose is 25 mcg/day.

Anyway I then came across this study: Aluminum vaccine adjuvants: are they safe? [Curr Med Chem. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

"Aluminum is an experimentally demonstrated neurotoxin and the most commonly used vaccine adjuvant. Despite almost 90 years of widespread use of aluminum adjuvants, medical science's understanding about their mechanisms of action is still remarkably poor. There is also a concerning scarcity of data on toxicology and pharmacokinetics of these compounds. In spite of this, the notion that aluminum in vaccines is safe appears to be widely accepted. Experimental research, however, clearly shows that aluminum adjuvants have a potential to induce serious immunological disorders in humans. In particular, aluminum in adjuvant form carries a risk for autoimmunity, long-term brain inflammation and associated neurological complications and may thus have profound and widespread adverse health consequences. In our opinion, the possibility that vaccine benefits may have been overrated and the risk of potential adverse effects underestimated, has not been rigorously evaluated in the medical and scientific community. We hope that the present paper will provide a framework for a much needed and long overdue assessment of this highly contentious medical issue."

Further reading came across this study: Do aluminum vaccine adjuvants contribute to ... [J Inorg Biochem. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

"... if exposure to Al from only few vaccines can lead to cognitive impairment and autoimmunity in adults, is it unreasonable to question whether the current pediatric schedules, often containing 18 Al adjuvanted vaccines, are safe for children?... exposure to Al from vaccines could be contributing to the rise in ASD prevalence in the Western world. Our results show that: (i) children from countries with the highest ASD prevalence appear to have the highest exposure to Al from vaccines; (ii) the increase in exposure to Al adjuvants significantly correlates with the increase in ASD prevalence in the United States observed over the last two decades (Pearson r=0.92, p<0.0001); and (iii) a significant correlation exists between the amounts of Al administered to preschool children and the current prevalence of ASD in seven Western countries, particularly at 3-4 months of age (Pearson r=0.89-0.94, p=0.0018-0.0248). The application of the Hill's criteria to these data indicates that the correlation between Al in vaccines and ASD may be causal. Because children represent a fraction of the population most at risk for complications following exposure to Al, a more rigorous evaluation of Al adjuvant safety seems warranted."

All constructive thoughts are welcomed.

I have a friend who bought into the vaccines cause autism nonsense years ago when it first was being studied. He didn't have his kids vaccinated because of his belief.

He's the only person I know personally who actually has an autistic child (grown now).

 

[Missed AB]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

I would say that the best way to avoid this problem would be to vaccinate at a latter age where the brain is much more developed and just limit the vaccines to the absolute barest essentials.

I agree 100%. This is how baby 2 will be handled. For example, there is no need for a Hep B vaccine on day 1 of life that contains 250 mcg of aluminum. My wife and I are each Hep B negative, and the infection is not a causal passing. There really is no need for that vaccine on day 1 of life for most people.

But again with my original post, I was amazed that there was even aluminum in the vaccine at a dose of 250 mcg. How is this "informed consent"?

Problem I see is the actual need for the adjuvant, without which the vaccine would be ineffectual in a small dosage.

The infant and child immune system works much different than the adult. And I agree with you that waiting may actually be the key to reduce the need for the adjuvant aluminum and the need for boosters. It may be effective to check serum antibody levels to determine if a booster is needed. Maybe give a dose without the adjuvant, then check serum levels to determine the need for a booster or adjuvant added vaccine. however currently their are few (if any) vaccines that offer adjuvant choice.

Human fetal immune system arises from entirely different source than adult immune system
"UCSF researchers have shown for the first time that the human fetal immune system arises from an entirely different source than the adult immune system, and is more likely to tolerate than fight foreign substances in its environment."

Since you are a professional what adjuvants would you use that are less toxic to the neurological system?

1. I am a clinician not a scientist, so that specific replacement substance is beyond my scope of practice. However, above I think I touched on this a bit.
2. I would hope for better studies in the future to determine safe aluminum dosing. Currently the accepted amount is not to exceed 25 mcg/day for ANYONE. (oral dosing is much different than injected as only about 1% is absorbed orally.)
3. I would suggest multiple visits to get the vaccines, and not give 1.2 mg aluminum to a 4 month old on a single day.
4. I would like to see a study of elimination rates of Al from infants and toddlers.
5. Better informed consent specifically with regards to the heavy metal Al. There is a safety feeling for most that Al is safe because soda comes in it, but they do not realize absorption from oral ingestion is only 1%.

Again I am embarrassed that I work in this field (not with infants or vaccines as my specialty is another avenue) and I was unaware of the amount of aluminum in these vaccines until what I feel was too late. My understanding of the concern most people had was Hg, and my understanding of vaccines was this was not a serious concern since about 2000.

 

[Ben K.]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

For the record, I am an educated registered professional working medical field (I will leave my profession blank here for obvious reasons). I have always heard the fringe anti vaccine groups and I have always put them off as being kooks and ill informed. They blame mercury for autism, when significant amounts of thimerosal have been removed for the past 10 to 15 years from all vaccines...

Then My son gets diagnosed with autism.

I start doing some research, and I read on some random website the amount of aluminum vaccines... I thought to my self, WHAT? That's got to be a typo.

Then I went to some "real" websites, and I could not believe what I was reading. 250-500 mcg (brand dependent) for the hep B shot given to every newborn before they leave the hospital... which my son got - despite being dehydrated for 2 days because my wife was not making any milk and the la-lacha nurse encouraging her to not bottle feed... (day 3 onward he was on formula).

Here's an example of a first schedule vaccination and the amount of aluminum.
HIB = 225 mcg
Pc = 125 mcg
DTap = 170 to 625 (depending on brand)
Hep B = 250 mcg

The FDA originally stated aluminum should not exceed 5mcg/kg/d. This was then reiterated by the NIH COPPER 0.4 mg/mLCupric ChlorideInjection, USP "WARNING: This product contains aluminum that may be toxic... Research indicates that patients with impaired kidney function, including premature neonates, who receive parentaral levels of aluminum at greater than 4 to 5 mcg/kg/day accumulate aluminum at levels associated with central nervous system and bone toxicity. Tissue loading may occur at even lower rates of administration."

Interestingly, as an aside here, the FDA has recently altered it's safe dosing schedule to an annual amount for vaccinations. This is like saying you can take 1 KG of tylenol annually... And the calculation is based on 5 mcg/kg/day x 365. Yet, for perential nutrition they state the safe dose is 25 mcg/day.

Anyway I then came across this study: Aluminum vaccine adjuvants: are they safe? [Curr Med Chem. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

"Aluminum is an experimentally demonstrated neurotoxin and the most commonly used vaccine adjuvant. Despite almost 90 years of widespread use of aluminum adjuvants, medical science's understanding about their mechanisms of action is still remarkably poor. There is also a concerning scarcity of data on toxicology and pharmacokinetics of these compounds. In spite of this, the notion that aluminum in vaccines is safe appears to be widely accepted. Experimental research, however, clearly shows that aluminum adjuvants have a potential to induce serious immunological disorders in humans. In particular, aluminum in adjuvant form carries a risk for autoimmunity, long-term brain inflammation and associated neurological complications and may thus have profound and widespread adverse health consequences. In our opinion, the possibility that vaccine benefits may have been overrated and the risk of potential adverse effects underestimated, has not been rigorously evaluated in the medical and scientific community. We hope that the present paper will provide a framework for a much needed and long overdue assessment of this highly contentious medical issue."

Further reading came across this study: Do aluminum vaccine adjuvants contribute to ... [J Inorg Biochem. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

"... if exposure to Al from only few vaccines can lead to cognitive impairment and autoimmunity in adults, is it unreasonable to question whether the current pediatric schedules, often containing 18 Al adjuvanted vaccines, are safe for children?... exposure to Al from vaccines could be contributing to the rise in ASD prevalence in the Western world. Our results show that: (i) children from countries with the highest ASD prevalence appear to have the highest exposure to Al from vaccines; (ii) the increase in exposure to Al adjuvants significantly correlates with the increase in ASD prevalence in the United States observed over the last two decades (Pearson r=0.92, p<0.0001); and (iii) a significant correlation exists between the amounts of Al administered to preschool children and the current prevalence of ASD in seven Western countries, particularly at 3-4 months of age (Pearson r=0.89-0.94, p=0.0018-0.0248). The application of the Hill's criteria to these data indicates that the correlation between Al in vaccines and ASD may be causal. Because children represent a fraction of the population most at risk for complications following exposure to Al, a more rigorous evaluation of Al adjuvant safety seems warranted."

All constructive thoughts are welcomed.

This has been criticised in the pediatrics field before (the study was comparing data several decades apart, they even got the prevalence of autism wrong so shoddy was their data gathering etc.)

But I suppose the simplest way to counter it is to say that if they looked at infant formula instead of vaccines as a causative agent their results would be much the same (infant formula feeding is 200 mcg daily).

So if aluminium is indeed the causative agent of autism (which I doubt) - stop formula feeding but keep vaccinating.

 

[jamesrage]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

All constructive thoughts are welcomed.

Anytime you see a drug advertised on tv they usually list a bunch of potential harmful side effects like this drug cures or treats this but there is risk you can get bleeding, cancer or other health complications and you shouldn't take this drug if you have these condition or you take these medications. If you look on the back of aspirin, nyqil and other medicine there is potential harmful side effects. There is even potential harmful side effects if you take too many vitamins. So someone is lying when they say vaccines are perfectly safe.Whether or not autism is one of those side effects or that the people who got autism already had it or conditions which gave them autism I do not know. Maybe there risks of autism but there is a greater good of getting people vaccinate that is the better result. Government and companies lie all the time.

 

[Missed AB]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

This fringe nonsense was first postulated and rebutted back in 2009. Aluminium is the third most common element on the planet. It's everywhere, naturally. It's in fruit and other foodstuffs, naturally. The tiny amount in a given vaccination is miniscule in comparison to your natural daily intake.

Aluminum is 100% absorbed via injection and 1% absorbed via ingestion.

Like you wrote the misconception is it is safe because it is NOT absorbed when ingested. Al is a heavy metal in the same boat as Hg.

Here's an interesting read:
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp22-c1.pdf

"The EPA has recommended a Secondary Maximum Contaminant Level
(SMCL) of 0.05–0.2 mg/L for aluminum in drinking water. The SMCL is not
based on levels that will affect humans or animals. It is based on taste,
smell, or color"

0.2 mg/L = 200 mcg/L x 1% (aluminum absorption from oral consumption) = 2 mcg IV/IM
CDC FDA safe dosing is 25 mcg/day. Current vaccine protocol give 250 mcg to 1200 mcg per vaccine schedule.

 

[Helix]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

Nothing in vaccines causes autism. Nothing at all does. The recent rise of autism comes from 1) greater recognition and identification of those suffering from it, 2) expansion of the definitions of autism to include similar conditions that were not previously recognized as such, and 3) more effective medical technologies that allow more autistic children to survive complications and live long enough to be visible. The difference is not fewer healthy kids. The difference is more awareness.

And even if it did, the lives saved by vaccinations WAY outweigh the number of children who develop autism, for any reason.

Welcome to the anti-vaccine fringe.

i almost can't even respond to anti-vax nonsense anymore. what that woo is doing to kids just makes me too mad. i'm so glad that my parents weren't like this; i would have died as a kid without flu shots.

 

[Ben K.]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

Anytime you see a drug advertised on tv they usually list a bunch of potential harmful side effects like this drug cures or treats this but there is risk you can get bleeding, cancer or other health complications and you shouldn't take this drug if you have these condition or you take these medications. If you look on the back of aspirin, nyqil and other medicine there is potential harmful side effects. There is even potential harmful side effects if you take too many vitamins. So someone is lying when they say vaccines are perfectly safe.Whether or not autism is one of those side effects or that the people who got autism already had it or conditions which gave them autism I do not know. Maybe there risks of autism but there is a greater good of getting people vaccinate that is the better result. Government and companies lie all the time.

Nobody says vaccines are perfectly safe - indeed they tell you the potential side effects when you get one just like in American drug adverts.

Strange that you use an example of an
advert plainly stating the side effect of their drugs as evidence of regulated manufacturers lying though.

 

[Missed AB]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

This has been criticised in the pediatrics field before (the study was comparing data several decades apart, they even got the prevalence of autism wrong so shoddy was their data gathering etc.)

But I suppose the simplest way to counter it is to say that if they looked at infant formula instead of vaccines as a causative agent their results would be much the same (infant formula feeding is 200 mcg daily).

So if aluminium is indeed the causative agent of autism (which I doubt) - stop formula feeding but keep vaccinating.

So it is your position that the heavy metal Al is safe?

Please state the absorption rate of aluminum when taken orally, then quantify that vs an IM/IV route dose.

CDC safe dose limits for IM/IV is 25 mcg/ day, period.

Gastrointestinal absorption of aluminum is low, generally in the range of 0.1–0.4% in humans. http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp22-c2.pdf Top of Page 12

"The package insert of LVP's used in TPN therapy must state that the drug product contains no more than 25 [micro]g/L of aluminum. This information must be contained in the "Precautions" section of the labeling of all large volume parenterals used in TPN therapy.... Research indicates that patients with impaired kidney function, including premature neonates, who receive parenteral levels of aluminum at greater than 4 to 5 [micro]g/kg/day accumulate aluminum at levels associated with central nervous system and bone toxicity. Tissue loading may occur at even lower rates of administration."

CFR - Code of Federal Regulations Title 21

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

on vaccines and aluminum:

The aluminum contained in vaccines is similar to that found in a liter (about 1 quart or 32 fluid ounces) of infant formula. While infants receive about 4.4 milligrams of aluminum in the first six months of life from vaccines, they receive more than that in their diet. Breast-fed infants ingest about 7 milligrams, formula-fed infants ingest about 38 milligrams, and infants who are fed soy formula ingest almost 117 milligrams of aluminum during the same period.

So, if aluminum is the fear, stay away from soy based formula.

 

[cpgrad08]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

 

[Ben K.]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

So it is your position that the heavy metal Al is safe?

Please state the absorption rate of aluminum when taken orally, then quantify that vs an IM/IV route dose.

CDC safe dose limits for IM/IV is 25 mcg/ day, period.

Gastrointestinal absorption of aluminum is low, generally in the range of 0.1–0.4% in humans. http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp22-c2.pdf Top of Page 12

"The package insert of LVP's used in TPN therapy must state that the drug product contains no more than 25 [micro]g/L of aluminum. This information must be contained in the "Precautions" section of the labeling of all large volume parenterals used in TPN therapy.... Research indicates that patients with impaired kidney function, including premature neonates, who receive parenteral levels of aluminum at greater than 4 to 5 [micro]g/kg/day accumulate aluminum at levels associated with central nervous system and bone toxicity. Tissue loading may occur at even lower rates of administration."

CFR - Code of Federal Regulations Title 21

Actually it's 0.01 - 5% according to CDC (check their toxguide). That's up to 10 mcg provided per liter to babies on infant formula.

So why the focus on vaccines?

 

[Missed AB]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

i almost can't even respond to anti-vax nonsense anymore. what that woo is doing to kids just makes me too mad. i'm so glad that my parents weren't like this; i would have died as a kid without flu shots.

It's not about vaccines. It's about aluminum dosing 20 to 50 times the CDC, FDA, NIH safe limits. These doses are given to just about every child day 1 in the hospital with the Hep B vaccine. This is the time when many new borns are dehydrated because colostrum is just coming in which is a small amount of fluid, or difficulty breast feeding, and those that are bottle fed, their infant kidneys are not yet 100% efficient hence all this decreases the elimination rate of aluminum and increases toxic build up.

Aluminum is a known neurotoxin, I am not making that up.

If you wish to debate something please pick something I wrote instead of stating you don't want to discuss "nonsense" when you didn't even read the OP.

 

[Missed AB]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

Actually it's 0.01 - 5% according to CDC (check their toxguide). That's up to 10 mcg provided per liter to babies on infant formula.

So why the focus on vaccines?

1. safe limits depending on agency is 25 mcg/day or 5 mcg/kg/day, and the infant formula falls into the safe range on the absorption scale. A single vaccine dose of Hep B given to a day old infant is 250 mcg. Month 3 schedule protocol shots 1.2 mg, that's 1200 mcg... absorbed.

Do you see why I am discussing the injected vs ingested?

EDIT: For example, you can take 3 grams of Tylenol/day and probably be on the safe side (depending on liver health and weight). But you can't take the whole months supply the first of the month and not expect to have a problem.

 

[Helix]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

It's not about vaccines. It's about aluminum dosing 20 to 50 times the CDC, FDA, NIH safe limits. These doses are given to just about every child day 1 in the hospital with the Hep B vaccine. This is the time when many new borns are dehydrated because colostrum is just coming in which is a small amount of fluid, or difficulty breast feeding, and those that are bottle fed, their infant kidneys are not yet 100% efficient hence all this decreases the elimination rate of aluminum and increases toxic build up.

Aluminum is a known neurotoxin, I am not making that up.

If you wish to debate something please pick something I wrote instead of stating you don't want to discuss "nonsense" when you didn't even read the OP.

i have a decent background in immunology, and i just don't think i can debate anti-vax woo anymore. i've spent a lot of time doing so, and it's like trying to convince truthers that planes actually hit the buildings. if you want to risk preventable illness, then i can't stop you. it makes me angry when kids get sick because of that ****ing fraud Wakefield, but there's little i can do about it, and i'd rather go outside and enjoy the nice weather. have a good one.

 

[Ben K.]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

1. safe limits depending on agency is 25 mcg/day or 5 mcg/kg/day, and the infant formula falls into the safe range on the absorption scale. A single vaccine dose of Hep B given to a day old infant is 250 mcg. Month 3 schedule protocol shots 1.2 mg, that's 1200 mcg... absorbed.

Do you see why I am discussing the injected vs ingested?

Yes, and do you see the difference between chronic exposure to a potentially toxic agent and acute exposure?

 

[Missed AB]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

They are hysterical. They make good entertainment. They got some of it wrong, as they don't seem to understand the difference between ingesting aluminum and injecting it at the 9 min mark...

 

[Missed AB]

Re: Vaccines and Autism.

Yes, and do you see the difference between chronic exposure to a potentially toxic agent and acute exposure?

Sure do. At safe limits it will be excreted out of the body before it has the time to settle into tissue or have any long lasting competitive effects.

Maybe there is a study that would show the safety of Aluminum in vaccines, like having 2 groups 1 gets the regular schedule, another gets 2x's the Al dosing therefore everyone is still getting vaccinated, and we can ask for volunteers to put their children into the experimental dosing? Which group would you put your 1 day old infant in? the 250 mcg hep B shot or the 500 mcg hep B shot?