Utah to reinstate Gold as a currency?

[imagep]

Given technological advances, I have to wonder why screen printing isn’t cheaper now then it was in 1999. This individual product anecdotal provide very little use.

Gold is only volatile because people’s faith in fiat currency remains volatile, creating an artificial bubble because the worth of fiat currency is completely arbitrary.

There have been very few advances in screen printing. It still takes a person to design the artwork, a person to order the materials, a person to reclaim/coat/burn/washout/prep screens, a person to mount the screens, a person to individually load every shirt, a person to unload the shirt onto the dryier, a person to pull the shirt off the dryier and to box it.

Screen printing is a mechanical process, it's not the same as printing something on a computer printer. There are actually computer printers that print shirts, but that is not screen printing as there is no "screen" in that process and they are not productive enough or economical enough or fast enough to replace large volume screen printing.

Anyhow, substitute cheetoes, or beer, or a new car, or most sensably - a "basket of goods". It doesn't matter, you will find that the dollar is much more stable than gold.

Anyhow, all of that is

 

[CriticalThought]

Where do you see scientists and universities in this country NOT trying to come up with the next new big thing with regard to energy? Im all for renewable energy R and D...but at the same time, states must forecast stable long term growth. Wouldst that the fed had such vision.

We will see. There is the possiblity that the recession has lead to a gold bubble, which would mean that gold currently has an overinflated price and that when it tanks, Utah could end up losing millions in tax revenue.

 

[VanceMack]

We will see. There is the possiblity that the recession has lead to a gold bubble, which would mean that gold currently has an overinflated price and that when it tanks, Utah could end up losing millions in tax revenue.

Possibly...but would it be any worse than the stock market bust?

The nice thing about this type of diversified investment (I cant imagine they would invest ONLY in gold-again...there are only a handful of states that consistently demonstrate fiscally sound policies) is that when one is unstable, typically the other is stronger. If a state has sizeable gold investments and the market is down, the gold prices will be typically up, conversely, if the market is strong, gold prices drop. Seems like a healthy hedge.

 

[rathi]

Gold is a poor currency. Its value is determined by the market and can be extremely chaotic in the short term. In 1980, the price of gold increased 50% in a single year. If our currency did that, it would obliterate the economy. The relatively slow and predictable inflation of the dollar is well optimized for the consumer-credit lifestyle in America. Now is a particularly bad time to issue gold currency as gold is way overvalued at the moment compared to historical norms.

 

[ARealConservative]

There have been very few advances in screen printing. It still takes a person to design the artwork, a person to order the materials, a person to reclaim/coat/burn/washout/prep screens, a person to mount the screens, a person to individually load every shirt, a person to unload the shirt onto the dryier, a person to pull the shirt off the dryier and to box it.

Screen printing is a mechanical process, it's not the same as printing something on a computer printer. There are actually computer printers that print shirts, but that is not screen printing as there is no "screen" in that process and they are not productive enough or economical enough or fast enough to replace large volume screen printing.

Anyhow, substitute cheetoes, or beer, or a new car, or most sensably - a "basket of goods". It doesn't matter, you will find that the dollar is much more stable than gold.

Anyhow, all of that is

Artwork design has improved immensely. BTB order processing has made enormous strides. You haven’t convinced me one bit that technological advances haven’t had an impact on pricing.

Prior to fiat currency, pretty much every good or service used to get cheaper over time. Many try to claim this was bad for the economy

 

[VanceMack]

Gold is a poor currency. Its value is determined by the market and can be extremely chaotic in the short term. In 1980, the price of gold increased 50% in a single year. If our currency did that, it would obliterate the economy. The relatively slow and predictable inflation of the dollar is well optimized for the consumer-credit lifestyle in America. Now is a particularly bad time to issue gold currency as gold is way overvalued at the moment compared to historical norms.

I agree with regard to gold as a currency. Not as a form of investment...provided that the investment is diversified (again...markets down, gold up, and vice versa). I think during the 2007-2010 period, most states (and most people) wish they had diversified investment. Especially those with worthless 401ks and depleted retirement funds.

 

[ARealConservative]

Gold is a poor currency. Its value is determined by the market and can be extremely chaotic in the short term. In 1980, the price of gold increased 50% in a single year. If our currency did that, it would obliterate the economy. The relatively slow and predictable inflation of the dollar is well optimized for the consumer-credit lifestyle in America. Now is a particularly bad time to issue gold currency as gold is way overvalued at the moment compared to historical norms.

The value of everything is determined by the market. If it’s value isn’t set by the market, you have no idea if it is priced correctly.

Gold was never volatile until it’s value was priced in fiat currency. So given this, to claim gold is volatile is asinine.

 

[imagep]

Artwork design has improved immensely. BTB order processing has made enormous strides. You haven’t convinced me one bit that technological advances haven’t had an impact on pricing.

Prior to fiat currency, pretty much every good or service used to get cheaper over time. Many try to claim this was bad for the economy

I own a company that produces screen printing as one of its product lines. As far as artwork, yes, the artwork is better than it used to be, and in some cases it is less expensive, but when we are talking about t-shirts that are mass produced, it really doesnt make a difference in retail price whether the artwork cost $20 or $100 to produce. Most of the time in our shop, we don't directly charge additional for artwork. The cost of raw materials, especially the actual t-shirt has actually gone up, as has labor cost, utilities, etc.

In electronics and high tech items, yes, the price typically drops, but that is because those aren't mature industries. Price really doesn't fluxuate too much in mature industry. When was the last time you saw clothing prices drop, or food, or cars?

 

[imagep]

The value of everything is determined by the market. If it’s value isn’t set by the market, you have no idea if it is priced correctly.

Gold was never volatile until it’s value was priced in fiat currency. So given this, to claim gold is volatile is asinine.

Maybe being affixed to a currency is what reduced the volitility of gold. I dunno. Regardless, gold has been much more volitile than currency over the past 30 years.

 

[ARealConservative]

Maybe being affixed to a currency is what reduced the volitility of gold. I dunno. Regardless, gold has been much more volitile than currency over the past 30 years.

again, gold is only volatile because it is behind measured in currency, which is volatile.

break it down to supply and demand. is the supply of gold volatile? of course not. is demand? yes!

I agree gold demand is incredibly volatile. but why? because every time people get scared of central banks crashing, demand for gold goes way up. gold is only volatile because trust in paper money is volatile.

I find it extremely silly to blame gold for the failures in fiat. gold soared in the late 70's, as did inflation. So gold is to fault for our government committing fraud and spending more paper money then they could possibly back by gold, then getting called out for that very fraud.

is gold to blame for our politicians virtually suspending the last presidential election because they were so terrified our economic system of paper money was about to completely go belly up they claimed urgent actions had to be taken?

 

[samsmart]

As opposed to investing in...say...the stock markets? How many states have lost their ass with the market and economic collapse? How many retirement accounts... individual, government, union, and corporate...are simply wiped out?

A state that operates with a balanced budget and demostrated fiscal responsibility as opposed to a federal government that has put the US taxpayers 14 trillion plus or states that have multibillion dollar deficits...hmmm...which would seem to be more fioscally responsible...

Well, to be fair, we've had recessions, depression, and deficits when we were on the gold standard as well.

 

[VanceMack]

Well, to be fair, we've had recessions, depression, and deficits when we were on the gold standard as well.

Undeniable. I think the states are simply looking for ways to protect the interests of their residents. It sounds like a smart move. We'll see if it 'pans' out.

 

[UtahBill]

To put it simply, energy is our utlimate limited resource. As such, our economy should be based on it. If we had unlimited energy at our disposal then the limiting resource would be material resources, but even things like fresh water can be made if we have an adequate supply of energy.

I envision that as our technology develops and we develop new ways to store energy we will use those as currency instead. Imagine using AA batteries as currency instead of using paper or gold. Except in this case, the AA battery would probably have enough energy to heat your house for a month.

Quite a breakthrough in battery technology.....:shock:
sorry, no battery exists that can be used for heating a house, hand warmers maybe.

 

[washunut]

Undeniable. I think the states are simply looking for ways to protect the interests of their residents. It sounds like a smart move. We'll see if it 'pans' out.

Even Warren Buffet, probably the greatest investor in our lifetime recently said holding U.S. currency is a very bad investment.

 

[cpwill]

The value of everything is determined by the market. If it’s value isn’t set by the market, you have no idea if it is priced correctly.

Gold was never volatile until it’s value was priced in fiat currency. So given this, to claim gold is volatile is asinine.

a good point; money itself is a good; and it's price can swing with demand.

the question, i think, is whether or not we want government to have a stronger or a weaker hand in the price of money.

 

[nonpareil]

Artwork design has improved immensely. BTB order processing has made enormous strides. You haven’t convinced me one bit that technological advances haven’t had an impact on pricing.

Prior to fiat currency, pretty much every good or service used to get cheaper over time. Many try to claim this was bad for the economy

Please provide proof of that. I know that boom and bust (and by extension inflation and deflation) were more frequent under the Gold Standard, never heard that goods lose value over time. If that's the case, there would no incentive to manufacture goods since the raw material you pay for today will be selling for less when you finish the goods. That's why deflation is seen as a bad thing.

 

[obvious Child]

I wonder who is more financially secure, the Tea Party folks or...well...people like you....

Well, 47% of the Tea Party doesn't pay federal taxes....

 

[nonpareil]

The value of everything is determined by the market. If it’s value isn’t set by the market, you have no idea if it is priced correctly.

Gold was never volatile until it’s value was priced in fiat currency. So given this, to claim gold is volatile is asinine.

This is not true. Demand for gold was very volatile even when it was the currency (and later when its value was fixed with fiat currency), it manifested itself as bank runs. That is part of the reason for the failure of the gold standard. This is particularly severe at the beginning of the Great Depression which is why countries that took itself off the gold standard the quickest saw a less severe and shorter period of recession.

 

[washunut]

a good point; money itself is a good; and it's price can swing with demand.

the question, i think, is whether or not we want government to have a stronger or a weaker hand in the price of money.

My sense is that the government understands that as a debtor nation we have to lower the standard of living of americans vis a vis the rest of the world. Currency devaluation is a stealth way of doing this.

 

[washunut]

Well, 47% of the Tea Party doesn't pay federal taxes....

Do you have a source for this?

 

[VanceMack]

Well, 47% of the Tea Party doesn't pay federal taxes....

Wonderful. Thank goodness for vague generalities and sound bites. And you?

 

[ARealConservative]

Please provide proof of that. I know that boom and bust (and by extension inflation and deflation) were more frequent under the Gold Standard, never heard that goods lose value over time.

goods don't lose value, they get cheaper in relation to gold. big difference

If that's the case, there would no incentive to manufacture goods since the raw material you pay for today will be selling for less when you finish the goods. That's why deflation is seen as a bad thing

deflation is seen as a bad thing because we operate a deficit and benefit from inflation. we import cheap goods and export depreciating dollars - at the expense of third world nations.

there will always be an incentive to produce because that is how you increase wealth. consumption would certainly go down, largely because we wouldn't live in a debt based economy, it would be a savings based economy.

and this would be a great thing for the env

 

[ARealConservative]

This is not true. Demand for gold was very volatile even when it was the currency (and later when its value was fixed with fiat currency), it manifested itself as bank runs. That is part of the reason for the failure of the gold standard. This is particularly severe at the beginning of the Great Depression which is why countries that took itself off the gold standard the quickest saw a less severe and shorter period of recession.

bank runs are caused by fractional reserve banking, not gold.

what the hell happened to our educational system. everybody is tossing softballs around.

 

[nonpareil]

goods don't lose value, they get cheaper in relation to gold. big difference

Fine, then provide prove that goods "get cheaper in relation to gold" "prior to fiat currency".

deflation is seen as a bad thing because we operate a deficit and benefit from inflation. we import cheap goods and export depreciating dollars - at the expense of third world nations.

Do you know anything of economics?

If the dollars is depreciating, then imports are more expensive, therefore we do not "import cheap goods". For the people of the USA, the value of import goods are going up. Neither do people "export depreciating dollars". People buy chinese goods in chinese Yen. A cheaper dollar relative to the Yen results in less yen after exchange, which is why import goods are more expensive.

there will always be an incentive to produce because that is how you increase wealth.

No, there isn't. What is deflation and how can it be prevented?

And production alone doesn't guarantee "increase wealth". Producing at a loss decrease wealth.

consumption would certainly go down, largely because we wouldn't live in a debt based economy, it would be a savings based economy.

How do you define "debt based economy" Vs "savings based economy"?

and this would be a great thing for the env

What the hell is "env"?

 

[nonpareil]

bank runs are caused by fractional reserve banking, not gold.

Bank runs are caused by sudden increased demand for currency. That currency can be either gold or gold-backed fiat currency.

what the hell happened to our educational system. everybody is tossing softballs around.

You should consider your own education. You don't seem to have a very good grasp of basic economics, let alone monetary economics.