US Wars of Aggression/War Crimes thread (1 Viewer)

[oneworld2]

This thread is aimed to discuss , specifically, the crimes committed against the people of the world by the USA

Nicaragua V USA

The Republic of Nicaragua v. The United States of America (1986)[2] was a case where the International Court of Justice (ICJ) held that the U.S. had violated international law by supporting the Contras in their rebellion against the Sandinistas and by mining Nicaragua's harbors. The case was decided in favor of Nicaragua and against the United States with the awarding of reparations to Nicaragua.

The Court had 15 final decisions upon which it voted. The Court found in its verdict that the United States was "in breach of its obligations under customary international law not to use force against another State", "not to intervene in its affairs", "not to violate its sovereignty", "not to interrupt peaceful maritime commerce", and "in breach of its obligations under Article XIX of the Treaty of Friendship, Commerce and Navigation between the Parties signed at Managua on 21 January 1956." In Statement 9, the Court stated that while the U.S. encouraged human rights violations by the Contras by the manual entitled Psychological Operations in Guerrilla Warfare, this did not make such acts attributable to the U.S.[3]

The United States refused to participate in the proceedings, arguing that the ICJ lacked jurisdiction to hear the case. The U.S. also blocked enforcement of the judgment by the United Nations Security Council and thereby prevented Nicaragua from obtaining any compensation.[4] Nicaragua, under the later, post-FSLN government of Violeta Chamorro, withdrew the complaint from the court in September 1992 following a repeal of the law which had required the country to seek compensation.[5]

Nicaragua v. United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As we can see the ICJ , International Court of Justice, found the USA guilty of violating Nicaranguan sovereignty and mining its ports

The CIA has played a direct role in the laying of underwater mines in Nicaraguan ports that have damaged at least eight ships from various nations during the past two months, according to congressional and administration sources.


A combination of U.S.-financed guerrillas fighting the leftist Sandinista government of Nicaragua and more highly trained Latin American employes of the CIA operating from CIA-owned speedboats have laid the crude bottom-lying mines in Corinto and other ports, according to the sources.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1984/04/07/cia-helped-to-mine-ports-in-nicaragua/762f775f-6733-4dd4-b692-8f03c8a0aef8/

cont...........

 

[oneworld2]

Although the court found that USA operatives had encouraged human rights violations by the Contra terrorists they fell short, sadly, of actually finding them guilty of the acts themselves. The allegations and findings were related to the distribution amongst the Contras themselves of a CIA manual entitled Psychological Operations in Guerrilla which served as a guide to their actions.

During the US proxy war on Nicaragua it is estimated that around 1300 terrorist attacks were carried out by the Contras on " soft targets" that included state officials, teachers, nurses, judges etc etc

 

[oneworld2]

Attrocities.............

The CIA officer in charge of the covert war, Duane "Dewey" Clarridge, admitted to the House Intelligence Committee staff in a secret briefing in 1984 that the Contras were routinely murdering "civilians and Sandinista officials in the provinces, as well as heads of cooperatives, nurses, doctors and judges". But he claimed that this did not violate President Reagan's executive order prohibiting assassinations because the agency defined it as just 'killing'. "After all, this is war—a paramilitary operation", Clarridge said in conclusion.[62] Edgar Chamorro explained the rationale behind this to a U.S. reporter. "Sometimes terror is very productive. This is the policy, to keep putting pressure until the people cry 'uncle'".[63][64] The CIA manual for the Contras, Tayacan, states that the Contras should gather the local population for a public tribunal to "shame, ridicule and humiliate" Sandinista officials to "reduce their influence". It also recommends gathering the local population to witness and take part in public executions.[65] These types of activities continued throughout the war. After the signing of the Central American Peace Accord in August 1987, the year war related deaths and economic destruction reached its peak, the Contras eventually entered negotiations with the Sandinista government (1988), and the war began to deescalate.[7]

Contras - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Talk of the sickening spectacle of public executions having resurfaced of late

 

[Antiwar]

This thread is aimed to discuss , specifically, the crimes committed against the people of the world by the USA

This could be a very long thread.

The nationalists here want to point at Russia's war crimes.

 

[venice_ca]

The U.S. has mistreated most of Latin America at one time or another — more recently Central America has suffered from our interference in internal politics, anti insurgent training (torture), and funding the military and death squads of repressive regimes.

I protested and demonstrated against U.S. policy, contacted elected officials, contributed to local organizations helping the influx of Central American refugees in Los Angeles.

None of the abominable U.S. policies in Central America in anyway justifies what Putin is doing in the Ukraine.

It is possible to be disgusted both by Putin’s and Reagan’s bellicose policies. One does not justify the other. If you object to one, the other is objectionable as well. Those who suffer most are the ordinary citizens, not the leaders. (Unless you consider the assassination of Somoza after his dictatorship had been toppled.)

 

[oneworld2]

This could be a very long thread.

The nationalists here want to point at Russia's war crimes.

Well they won't be able to here because the parameters have been set in no uncertain terms.......only US war crimes/wars of aggression etc

 

[venice_ca]

George W Bush and Dick Cheney should be prosecuted for war crimes, but it’s too late for their victims to be saved. Future Ukrainian victims of war crimes can be lessoned/stopped.

I hope to God that no DP ammunition is being sent to Ukraine.

 

[oneworld2]

The U.S. has mistreated most of Latin America at one time or another — more recently Central America has suffered from our interference in internal politics, anti insurgent training (torture), and funding the military and death squads of repressive regimes.

I protested and demonstrated against U.S. policy, contacted elected officials, contributed to local organizations helping the influx of Central American refugees in Los Angeles.

None of the abominable U.S. policies in Central America in anyway justifies what Putin is doing in the Ukraine.

It is possible to be disgusted both by Putin’s and Reagan’s bellicose policies. One does not justify the other. If you object to one, the other is objectionable as well. Those who suffer most are the ordinary citizens, not the leaders. (Unless you consider the assassination of Somoza after his dictatorship had been toppled.)

Please try to stay completely on topic if possible thx

I will indulge you an asnwer though if I may

The bolded parts in the above?

I agree with and are my own positions

IE It is wholly possible to decry ALL war criminals be they Russian or American, or from anywhere else so you are actually preaching to the already converted.

This thread is just about US war crimes and illegal wars and doesn't include events in Ukraine. By all means start one off I will contribute to it

 

[oneworld2]

George W Bush and Dick Cheney should be prosecuted for war crimes, but it’s too late for their victims to be saved. Future Ukrainian victims of war crimes can be lessoned/stopped.

I hope to God that no DP ammunition is being sent to Ukraine.

Not the topic of this thread

 

[venice_ca]

No one has any doubt why this thread was started.

We have the opportunity to oppose war crimes in Ukraine as they are happening. This thread chooses to deal with events that happened during the Reagan administration. While important, publicizing current war crimes gives the better chance of preventing more victims.

 

[oneworld2]

No one has any doubt why this thread was started.

We have the opportunity to oppose war crimes in Ukraine as they are happening. This thread chooses to deal with events that happened during the Reagan administration. While important, publicizing current war crimes gives the better chance of preventing more victims.

You are still off topic

Start a new thread and I will contibute to it.

 

[yankintx]

Please try to stay completely on topic if possible thx

I will indulge you an asnwer though if I may

The bolded parts in the above?

I agree with and are my own positions

IE It is wholly possible to decry ALL war criminals be they Russian or American, or from anywhere else so you are actually preaching to the already converted.

This thread is just about US war crimes and illegal wars and doesn't include events in Ukraine. By all means start one off I will contribute to it

Your not a mod are you Comrade?

 

[oneworld2]

Your not a mod are you Comrade?

Nope, and not the subject of this thread either thx

 

[Ikari]

This could be a very long thread.

The nationalists here want to point at Russia's war crimes.

The US has no doubt done some shady, bad things of which politicians should be held accountable. However, that being true doesn't deflect from the war crimes Russia is currently engaged in.

 

[oneworld2]

The US has no doubt done some shady, bad things of which politicians should be held accountable. However, that being true doesn't deflect from the war crimes Russia is currently engaged in.

Sorry, not " shady or bad things" we are talking war crimes and illegal wars. They are as serious to the victims when we do it as they are to the victims when others do it.

BTW this thread isn't about Ukraine or Russia, so I would kindly ask you to try to stick to the actual subject thx

 

[Ikari]

Sorry, not " shady or bad things" we are talking war crimes and illegal wars. They are as serious to the victims when we do it as they are to the victims when others do it.

BTW this thread isn't about Ukraine or Russia, so I would kindly ask you to try to stick to the actual subject thx

I don't deny that the US has done wrong. I was merely pointing out that we doing wrong doesn't excuse the wrong Russia is currently involved in.

 

[oneworld2]

I don't deny that the US has done wrong. I was merely pointing out that we doing wrong doesn't excuse the wrong Russia is currently involved in.

I agree and have made it clear that I hold all war criminals accountable for their crimes and wish to see all of them being convicted for them if possible.

There will likely be a future reference/ section on the bombing of Serbia in a conflict where Serbians were charged and indicted for their alleged crimes/crimes and leaders of NATO countries that took part in illegal actions there were not. It's a problem , a big problem but there's another thread I put up her precisely to talk about how selective applications of international laws undermine the laws themselves and embolden ,imo , people to commit crimes because they see others doing the same escaping justice themselves.

This one is strictly about US crimes and criminals and how verdicts justice have not been served upon them

 

[Ikari]

I agree and have made it clear that I hold all war criminals accountable for their crimes and wish to see all of them being convicted for them if possible.

There will likely be a future reference/ section on the bombing of Serbia in a conflict where Serbians were charged and indicted for their alleged crimes/crimes and leaders of NATO countries that took part in illegal actions there were not. It's a problem , a big problem but there's another thread I put up her precisely to talk about how selective applications of international laws undermine the laws themselves and embolden ,imo , people to commit crimes because they see others doing the same escaping justice themselves.

This one is strictly about US crimes and criminals and how verdicts justice have not been served upon them

So this is a "rich and powerful get away with everything" thread? Duh. Has England really faced the ramifications of their atrocities? I mean, for that level even China or Russia?

Is there plenty of blame to throw at the US? Of course, we've been right dirty bastards for much of our existence. Hell, Iran Contra was an act of high treason.

But that doesn't mean that we, citizens of this corrupt government, cannot speak out against the atrocities of others. And as bad as we are, we ain't even in the same league as Russia.

 

[oneworld2]

So this is a "rich and powerful get away with everything" thread? Duh. Has England really faced the ramifications of their atrocities? I mean, for that level even China or Russia?

Is there plenty of blame to throw at the US? Of course, we've been right dirty bastards for much of our existence. Hell, Iran Contra was an act of high treason.

But that doesn't mean that we, citizens of this corrupt government, cannot speak out against the atrocities of others. And as bad as we are, we ain't even in the same league as Russia.

" Duh". Is this how high brow/non adversarial conversations proceed here?

This post would be better and on topic in the thread below, so you can carry on with this there if you don't mind. Thx.

This one is strictly about US criminality and as such you are all over the place in the above. Can you please try and stay on topic, thx.

How Support For The Universal Application For The Prosecution Of War Criminals Is Support For The Laws Themselves

This thread was created to take a serious look at how war crimes are both determined, how any criminals have been prosecuted and how the international mechanisms aimed at serving justice to peoples violated are and have been a history of selective application and abuses of those laws themselves...

debatepolitics.com

 

[Antiwar]

And as bad as we are, we ain't even in the same league as Russia.

The only obvious place that Russia supposedly has the USG beat (in bad things) is the largest nuclear arsenal, and the USG is a close #2. Which is worse? They're both bad.

• Russia (6,257)
• United States (5,550)
• China (350)
• France (290)
• United Kingdom (225)
• Pakistan (165)
• India (156)
• Israel (90)

The past two to three-week Russian attack on Ukraine is bad, but the USG has spent the past 20 years (and still counting?) warring in the Middle East and North Africa. Which is worse? They're both bad.

The USG is said to have "nearly 800 military bases in more than 70 countries and territories abroad," and that count might be low. Russia: "In terms of actual sites, this meant 513 active installations worldwide. To put this in some sort of context, Britain, France and Russia maintain around 30 bases on foreign soil, combined." Which is worse? They're both bad.


How many countries has each been warring in over the past several decades? How about currently?


And Earth's ecosystems are a mess, militarism exacerbates the problems, and war exacerbates them even further. The choice boils down to environmentalism or militarism?

 

[Antiwar]

We have the opportunity to oppose war crimes in Ukraine as they are happening.

And most here will give the USG an exception because of American exceptionalism.

 

[Chagos]

Apart from the issue touched upon in the OP, it would appear that this thread is also supposed to be belligerent towards the application of "tu quoque".

But, that somewhat ambitious parameter notwithstanding, especially when viewing the customary stance of the "originator", what about the atrocities committed by the Sandinistas?

Of course no such comparison could result in two wrongs making a right, so if agreement on this assessment can be reached, we might actually get somewhere.

But no big deal if that doesn't happen.

So, to stay in the spirit of just picking on one's favourite bête noire, the US clandestinely supporting the assassination of Ngô Đình Diệm wasn't really a demonstration of even remotely holding any sort of moral value.

 

[Antiwar]

Apart from the issue touched upon in the OP, it would appear that this thread is also supposed to be belligerent towards the application of "tu quoque".

But, that somewhat ambitious parameter notwithstanding, especially when viewing the customary stance of the "originator", what about the atrocities committed by the Sandinistas?

Of course no such comparison could result in two wrongs making a right, so if agreement on this assessment can be reached, we might actually get somewhere.

But no big deal if that doesn't happen.

So, to stay in the spirit of just picking on one's favourite bête noire, the US clandestinely supporting the assassination of Ngô Đình Diệm wasn't really a demonstration of even remotely holding any sort of moral value.

Please rephrase in American.

 

[Chagos]

Please rephrase in American.

My preferred language is English, even here.

 

[Antiwar]

My preferred language is English, even here.

If say you so.