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US Wars of Aggression/War Crimes thread

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Antiwar said:
The only obvious place that Russia supposedly has the USG beat (in bad things) is the largest nuclear arsenal, and the USG is a close #2. Which is worse? They're both bad.
  • Russia (6,257)
  • United States (5,550)
  • China (350)
  • France (290)
  • United Kingdom (225)
  • Pakistan (165)
  • India (156)
  • Israel (90)

The past two to three-week Russian attack on Ukraine is bad, but the USG has spent the past 20 years (and still counting?) warring in the Middle East and North Africa. Which is worse? They're both bad.

The USG is said to have "nearly 800 military bases in more than 70 countries and territories abroad," and that count might be low. Russia: "In terms of actual sites, this meant 513 active installations worldwide. To put this in some sort of context, Britain, France and Russia maintain around 30 bases on foreign soil, combined." Which is worse? They're both bad.


How many countries has each been warring in over the past several decades? How about currently?


And Earth's ecosystems are a mess, militarism exacerbates the problems, and war exacerbates them even further. The choice boils down to environmentalism or militarism?
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All very interesting Antiwar but not germane to this thread.

Let;s keep Russia and everyone else out and focus on US war crimes and war criminals. thx
 
Can people who wish to comment please stick specifically to the subject of US war crimes, illegal wars and criminals thx
 
The reason this thread started with the Nicaragua V USA case was because it is the only time in recent history that I recall a world power being found guilty of war crimes/aggression. violations of sovereignty by the key instrument of international justice, in this case the International Court of Justice, the ICJ

So to conclude we have

The USA being found guilty of numerous violations of international laws governing conflicts by the international court cgarged with applying them.

The court fell short of charging the USA of responsibility for mass human rights violations even though it had supplied the manual from which many actions were taken in the way they were taken

We have seen that the proxy Contra army was guilty of hundreds of acts of terrorism

We have seen that this was known to US leaders and that this terrorism was , in the words of a CIA officer involved in the war, " very productive. This is the policy, to keep putting pressure until the people cry 'uncle'

That this terrorism and mass human rights violations, war crimes, did not breach the US stated policy of a wish for prohibitation of " assassinations " by the assassinations being clasified by the agency as " just killings" in the course of a war

That the US proxies and CIA handlers mined Nicaraguan ports in violation of international law

That once the verdict was given, a case in which the USA itself refused to take part in itself, the USA rejected the courts decision, nobody afaik was ever charged for the war crimes they had committed/enabled/encouraged and no reparations were ever paid to Nicaragua by the USA.

The war claimed thousands of lives , many of whom were tortured before their murders and the reparations that were never paid have been estimated at around$17 billion

No justice was ever served to the victims of this US proxy war and none of the criminals from the US were ever indicted for their crimes.

It remains , the only time since WW2, that the leaders of a major power were ever found guilty of war crimes.
 
Antiwar said:
The only obvious place that Russia supposedly has the USG beat (in bad things) is the largest nuclear arsenal, and the USG is a close #2. Which is worse? They're both bad.
  • Russia (6,257)
  • United States (5,550)
  • China (350)
  • France (290)
  • United Kingdom (225)
  • Pakistan (165)
  • India (156)
  • Israel (90)

The past two to three-week Russian attack on Ukraine is bad, but the USG has spent the past 20 years (and still counting?) warring in the Middle East and North Africa. Which is worse? They're both bad.

The USG is said to have "nearly 800 military bases in more than 70 countries and territories abroad," and that count might be low. Russia: "In terms of actual sites, this meant 513 active installations worldwide. To put this in some sort of context, Britain, France and Russia maintain around 30 bases on foreign soil, combined." Which is worse? They're both bad.


How many countries has each been warring in over the past several decades? How about currently?


And Earth's ecosystems are a mess, militarism exacerbates the problems, and war exacerbates them even further. The choice boils down to environmentalism or militarism?
Click to expand...
Oh please, not even the US killed as many as Stalin did when forming the USSR. Russia has us beat in most categories of "bad things".

We do have based all over the place, we shouldn't but we do. Many of them are in friendly countries, but many more are not. Russia deserves condemnation for it's activities, it's not wrong to call them out.
 
Ikari said:
So this is a "rich and powerful get away with everything" thread? Duh. Has England really faced the ramifications of their atrocities? I mean, for that level even China or Russia?

Is there plenty of blame to throw at the US? Of course, we've been right dirty bastards for much of our existence. Hell, Iran Contra was an act of high treason.

But that doesn't mean that we, citizens of this corrupt government, cannot speak out against the atrocities of others. And as bad as we are, we ain't even in the same league as Russia.
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I would have to disagree with your last point, because I dont see Russia couping dozens of governments or devastating the middle east in the same way the US has. The US is literally causing a famine in Afghanistan
 
Ikari said:
Oh please, not even the US killed as many as Stalin did when forming the USSR. Russia has us beat in most categories of "bad things".

We do have based all over the place, we shouldn't but we do. Many of them are in friendly countries, but many more are not. Russia deserves condemnation for it's activities, it's not wrong to call them out.
Click to expand...

Off topic, please read the rules of this subforum thx
 
ChickenTendies said:
I would have to disagree with your last point, because I dont see Russia couping dozens of governments or devastating the middle east in the same way the US has. The US is literally causing a famine in Afghanistan
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Off topic, please desist from engaging in off topic discussions and read the subforum rules about strict adherence to the stated subject thx
 
This is what "strict adherence" in the guidelines defines:

Clearly define the topic of your thread, and stay within the realm of a threads stated topic.
Minor thread drift is normal and occurs in all threads. However, when a threads topic is clearly laid out the conversation should stay primarily about that topic, with only small divergence to other connected issues. If major thread drift occurs report it and focus your own posts on the topic rather than engaging the individual about their potential drifting.

So the question arises whether it is up to a thread starter (in here) to decide what is

1) "minor" in a thread drift
2) primarily on topic
3) small or bigger divergence
4) major thread drift

or (and) whether the last sentence above would suggest that arbitration is best left to those more qualified in making it.

Which, apart from official standing, would be those NOT engaging in whataboutism as much as the OP is known to in virtually any other feature of this forum.

That the attempt to stifle the very same here will thus be commented upon, should meet with no surprise.

Beyond which, (back to topic) attempts at belittling or even denying the role that the US played in and with Nicaragua appear to be few and far between here anyway.
 
Fledermaus said:
Playing MOD is against the rules IIRC.
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I am reminding people that the rules here are different to the rules in the other forums and that they should read what they say and realize how and where they are in potential violation of them. I didn't make the rules up I am just stating that, as the creator of the OP and the creator of the parameters within which discussion is to be kept, people are in breach of it.
 
Chagos said:
This is what "strict adherence" in the guidelines defines:

Clearly define the topic of your thread, and stay within the realm of a threads stated topic.
Minor thread drift is normal and occurs in all threads. However, when a threads topic is clearly laid out the conversation should stay primarily about that topic, with only small divergence to other connected issues. If major thread drift occurs report it and focus your own posts on the topic rather than engaging the individual about their potential drifting.

So the question arises whether it is up to a thread starter (in here) to decide what is

1) "minor" in a thread drift
2) primarily on topic
3) small or bigger divergence
4) major thread drift

or (and) whether the last sentence above would suggest that arbitration is best left to those more qualified in making it.

Which, apart from official standing, would be those NOT engaging in whataboutism as much as the OP is known to in virtually any other feature of this forum.

That the attempt to stifle the very same here will thus be commented upon, should meet with no surprise.

Beyond which, (back to topic) attempts at belittling or even denying the role that the US played in and with Nicaragua appear to be few and far between here anyway.
Click to expand...


The parameters were set and were very specific

I should not have had to engage in reminding people of the parameters and that I have tried to is not a bad reflection on me imo

This will be the last appeal, for the moment, to have people stay on topic and I will stick to the directive stated above instead
 
oneworld2 said:
The parameters were set and were very specific

I should not have had to engage in reminding people of the parameters and that I have tried to is not a bad reflection on me imo

This will be the last appeal, for the moment, to have people stay on topic and I will stick to the directive stated above instead
Click to expand...

In other words you want a Bully Pulpit where you can speak on the US and no other discussion is allowed to include compare/contrast with other nations.

Got it.
 
ChickenTendies said:
I would have to disagree with your last point, because I dont see Russia couping dozens of governments or devastating the middle east in the same way the US has. The US is literally causing a famine in Afghanistan
Click to expand...
The mess in the Middle East was pretty much a proxy war between the US and Russia. They ****ed up their fair share of shit
 
Ikari said:
The mess in the Middle East was pretty much a proxy war between the US and Russia. They ****ed up their fair share of shit
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Syria can be attributed to Russia and the US, Iraq solely to the US, Afghanistan to the USSR and US in turn, and Yemen to US backing. Let's not forget about Libya even though its not technically in the Middle East
 
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