• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

US Not Much Different Than Dictatorship

If anyone says "I hate the US", Go! Get out of my country! Go complain in another country! I like my "Disfunctional" US just fine thank you!

Oh wait it could just be a phase that their going thru: "Republicanitus"-tenancy to hate republicans when they have to white house.?!

Hey I was just trying to be funny and serious, can you tell the difference? :mrgreen:
 
stsburns said:
So who is a slave to the USA?
that would be great britian...;) just kidding tony blair is the man
 
stsburns said:
If anyone says "I hate the US", Go! Get out of my country! Go complain in another country! I like my "Disfunctional" US just fine thank you!

Oh wait it could just be a phase that their going thru: "Republicanitus"-tenancy to hate republicans when they have to white house.?!

Hey I was just trying to be funny and serious, can you tell the difference? :mrgreen:
I've posted this before...There actually IS a mental ailment out there, and it has a name...

Bush Derangement Syndrome: the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency -- nay -- the very existence of George W. Bush...

...Until now, Bush Derangement Syndrome (BDS) had generally struck people with previously compromised intellectual immune systems. Hence its prevalence in Hollywood. Barbra Streisand, for example, wrote her famous September 2002 memo to Dick Gephardt warning that the president was dragging us toward war to satisfy, among the usual corporate malefactors who ``clearly have much to gain if we go to war against Iraq,'' the logging industry -- timber being a major industry in a country that is two-thirds desert. ...

...That's what has researchers so alarmed about Dean. He had none of the usual risk factors: Dean has never opined for a living, and has no detectable sense of humor. Even worse is the fact that he is now exhibiting symptoms of a related illness, Murdoch Derangement Syndrome (MDS), in which otherwise normal people believe that their minds are being controlled by a single, very clever Australian....

Some clinicians consider this delusion -- that Americans can only get their news from one part of the political spectrum -- the gravest of all. They report that no matter how many times sufferers in padded cells are presented with flash cards with the symbols ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NPR, PBS, Time, Newsweek, New York Times, Washington Post, L.A. Times -- they remain unresponsive, some in a terrifying near-catatonic torpor. ...

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/charleskrauthammer/2003/12/05/160406.html
 
TimmyBoy said:
Let's think about this for a minute. The idea of the US being a "free country" is simply a manufactered illusion created by dictators in the US. It is necessary to manufacter this illusion in the minds of people in order to keep tight, tyrannical control over them. You see politicans on TV talking good game about the US being a "free country" but lets look at the facts and see if the facts add up to the good game that politicans are talking on TV. Let's look at the actions and not the words. A good example back in the 1960s during the anti-war movement where the FBI used a provacteur who was called "Tommy the Traveler" where he was paid by the FBI and posed as an anti-war protestor. He would travel to college campuses, commit criminal acts to frame the anti-war groups he infiltrated and also encourage them to commit criminal acts like buring down military building or buildings that were related to the military. This had two purposes:

1) To suppress First Amendment protected rights of free speech of law abiding citizens.

2) To give oppression the face of legitimacy to make law abiding citizens appear criminal and thus the oppressive actions of the state seem justifiable when in fact the actions of the state are not justifiable and the actions of the citizens not criminal. In many cases these anti-war protestors refused to engage in the criminal activity that was encouraged by "Tommy the Traveler" and at times they became suscipicious of his intentions and motives, but nevertheless. they still found a way to arrest them anyway.

This is just one of many many examples that I can talk about how the illusion of the US being a "free country" being manufactered while in fact, the state is engaging in illegal, subversive activity and maintaining tight, unjustified, tyrannical control over the people.






Dear Timmyboy, So you actually believe honest law abiding citizens are being rounded up & arrested?

Geezuz, ....I think you have watched too much of "The Matrix"!;)
 
Stu Ghatze said:
Dear Timmyboy, So you actually believe honest law abiding citizens are being rounded up & arrested?

Geezuz, ....I think you have watched too much of "The Matrix"!;)

Sure, it happens alot more than you think. Sometimes, the government intentionally, knowingly and willfully puts innocent people behind bars and even has the evidence to prove they are innocent, but with-holds that evidence. J. Edgar Hoover was famous for doing that. I remember watching a special on TV where some lawyers were saying the J. Edgar Hoover's name should be taken off the FBI building named in his honor and renamed.
 
TimmyBoy said:
I could say the US would fall into this category, but the fact of the matter is, their is no revolution in the US every 4 years nor can the existing order be thrown from office without a shot being fired in the US. Both the democrats and republicans basically represent the same order with some small, insignificant differences between the two.

Hmm can't tell the difference between the United States and any of your standard dictatorships. Can't tell the difference between Democrats and Republicans.

Definate lack of political reasoning and intellect being shown, or is it all just hyperbole?
 
Stinger said:
Hmm can't tell the difference between the United States and any of your standard dictatorships. Can't tell the difference between Democrats and Republicans.

Definate lack of political reasoning and intellect being shown, or is it all just hyperbole?

Of course I can tell the difference between the standard dictatorship and the US government. You see, a standard dictatorship is open, honest and very direct about their tyranny and oppression. They come right out and tell you, that you will be beaten, tortured or killed for saying the wrong things or for merely being objectionable, even though you haven't violated the law. Dictatorships are more honest about their tyranny and oppression where the US government is not so honest about some of the tyranny and oppression that goes on. They try to put a face of freedom and legitmacy on the tyranny and oppression and sooth people with lies about the US being a "free country" but in practice we are not. The facts don't add up to the speeches given by the politicans and actions speak louder than words. The diffence between the standard dictatorship and the US is that the standard dictatorship is honest and straight up about it's practices where the US is not honest and straight up and lies. So which is more threatening, the big stick and honesty of the standard dictatorship, or the big lie of the US government?
 
cnredd said:
I've posted this before...There actually IS a mental ailment out there, and it has a name...

Bush Derangement Syndrome: the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency -- nay -- the very existence of George W. Bush...

...Until now, Bush Derangement Syndrome (BDS) had generally struck people with previously compromised intellectual immune systems. Hence its prevalence in Hollywood. Barbra Streisand, for example, wrote her famous September 2002 memo to Dick Gephardt warning that the president was dragging us toward war to satisfy, among the usual corporate malefactors who ``clearly have much to gain if we go to war against Iraq,'' the logging industry -- timber being a major industry in a country that is two-thirds desert. ...

...That's what has researchers so alarmed about Dean. He had none of the usual risk factors: Dean has never opined for a living, and has no detectable sense of humor. Even worse is the fact that he is now exhibiting symptoms of a related illness, Murdoch Derangement Syndrome (MDS), in which otherwise normal people believe that their minds are being controlled by a single, very clever Australian....

Some clinicians consider this delusion -- that Americans can only get their news from one part of the political spectrum -- the gravest of all. They report that no matter how many times sufferers in padded cells are presented with flash cards with the symbols ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NPR, PBS, Time, Newsweek, New York Times, Washington Post, L.A. Times -- they remain unresponsive, some in a terrifying near-catatonic torpor. ...

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/charleskrauthammer/2003/12/05/160406.html
Wow I can't believe someone took the time to come up with an illness as such! :2rofll:
 
TimmyBoy said:
Of course I can tell the difference between the standard dictatorship and the US government. You see, a standard dictatorship is open, honest and very direct about their tyranny and oppression.

Hahahahaha.. :2rofll: Take Iraq for example. Do you think they had a free media in Saddam's day? Hell no, it was completely state controlled and bombarded the Iraqi people with glorification of Hussein. You take for granted the freedoms we have here in America like a media/press that's free to point out corruption in the government.


TimmyBoy said:
They come right out and tell you, that you will be beaten, tortured or killed for saying the wrong things or for merely being objectionable, even though you haven't violated the law.

We have anti-war/anti-Bush rallys in this country all the time.

Speaking out against the leader in a dictatorship is grounds for arrest, torture and death.

Real similar.



TimmyBoy said:
Dictatorships are more honest about their tyranny and oppression where the US government is not so honest about some of the tyranny and oppression that goes on.

So the US government is not a dictatorship. Thanks for finally admitting that.


TimmyBoy said:
They try to put a face of freedom and legitmacy on the tyranny and oppression and sooth people with lies about the US being a "free country" but in practice we are not.

They don't have to put a face on it. I know I'm free to go anywhere I want and tell everyone under the sun how much I think Bush sucks.


TimmyBoy said:
The facts don't add up to the speeches given by the politicans and actions speak louder than words.

Such as?


TimmyBoy said:
The diffence between the standard dictatorship and the US is that the standard dictatorship is honest and straight up about it's practices where the US is not honest and straight up and lies. So which is more threatening, the big stick and honesty of the standard dictatorship, or the big lie of the US government?

How about you move to North Korea for a few years, then come back here and tell me which is more threatening.

Or ask immigrants why they're so eager to come to our great country.
 
The Real McCoy said:
Hahahahaha.. :2rofll: Take Iraq for example. Do you think they had a free media in Saddam's day? Hell no, it was completely state controlled and bombarded the Iraqi people with glorification of Hussein. You take for granted the freedoms we have here in America like a media/press that's free to point out corruption in the government.




We have anti-war/anti-Bush rallys in this country all the time.

Speaking out against the leader in a dictatorship is grounds for arrest, torture and death.

Real similar.





So the US government is not a dictatorship. Thanks for finally admitting that.




They don't have to put a face on it. I know I'm free to go anywhere I want and tell everyone under the sun how much I think Bush sucks.




Such as?




How about you move to North Korea for a few years, then come back here and tell me which is more threatening.

Or ask immigrants why they're so eager to come to our great country.

I didn't admit anything. Their was no admission in my statement. Funny you should mention immigrants. When I was in college majoring in computer science, I spoke with some former Soviet immigrants whom I studied with. They said that in the Soviet Union, everybody knew they were not free and they said even though the propaganda was rather crude, the government was more open and honest about telling people they don't live in a free country. They continued by stating that when they came here to the US, the propaganda here in the US was much better and that the US government had suceeded in tricking and fooling the American people into falsely believing they live in a "free country." They said, that it is much more difficult to stop some of the tyrannical practices of the US government because they have the American people so brainwashed and fooled, that they don't even realize they live in a tyrannical society. The US government has done an excellent job of managing perception and facilitating the illusion of freedom in the US, when in fact, we don't have freedom and do not live in a free country.
 
TimmyBoy said:
They continued by stating that when they came here to the US, the propaganda here in the US was much better and that the US government had suceeded in tricking and fooling the American people into falsely believing they live in a "free country."

The US government has done an excellent job of managing perception and facilitating the illusion of freedom in the US, when in fact, we don't have freedom and do not live in a free country.
Um you must live under arock...um I mean "Iraq."

What is exactly so tyrannical about the US again?
 
stsburns said:
Um you must live under arock...um I mean "Iraq."

What is exactly so tyrannical about the US again?

Spying on people without probable cause or a warrant (sounds like the secret police in a dictatorship), imprisoning people who are innocent. Going after dissident groups by infiltrating those groups, spying on them and then using provaceteurs to frame them for crimes they didn't commit so that law enforcement may go and arrest them unjustly and that a jury may convict them for crimes they did not commit thus succeeding in oppressing these dissident groups who committed no crime while leaving the false impression on everybody else that they were criminals. Launching an unprovoked first strike on a country (A-rock, er Iraq). Overthrowing democratically elected governments around the world who posed no threat to the US. These are all hall marks of a dictatorship. But the US is not your standard dictatorship, the US is a dictatorship that has succeeded in fooling and tricking their people into thinking they live in a "free country."
 
TimmyBoy said:
Spying on people without probable cause or a warrant (sounds like the secret police in a dictatorship), imprisoning people who are innocent. Going after dissident groups by infiltrating those groups, spying on them and then using provaceteurs to frame them for crimes they didn't commit so that law enforcement may go and arrest them unjustly and that a jury may convict them for crimes they did not commit thus succeeding in oppressing these dissident groups who committed no crime while leaving the false impression on everybody else that they were criminals. Launching an unprovoked first strike on a country (A-rock, er Iraq). Overthrowing democratically elected governments around the world. These are all hall marks of a dictatorship. But the US is not your standard dictatorship, the US is a dictatorship that has succeeded in fooling and tricking their people into thinking they live in a "free country."
Then what about everyone else that is spying on you?

Freedom comes with a cost! Freedom isn't "free?" Sometimes its costs lives sometimes it costs a brief time of uncomfort. Government spying saved us during WWII when a man and his wife were caught spying for Germany. It saved many American lives. Aren't you willing to do without untill this war is over? Or are you more "special" than anyone else in the US, and think you deserve more priviledges?
 
TimmyBoy said:
Spying on people without probable cause or a warrant (sounds like the secret police in a dictatorship), imprisoning people who are innocent. Going after dissident groups by infiltrating those groups, spying on them and then using provaceteurs to frame them for crimes they didn't commit so that law enforcement may go and arrest them unjustly and that a jury may convict them for crimes they did not commit thus succeeding in oppressing these dissident groups who committed no crime while leaving the false impression on everybody else that they were criminals. Launching an unprovoked first strike on a country (A-rock, er Iraq). Overthrowing democratically elected governments around the world who posed no threat to the US. These are all hall marks of a dictatorship. But the US is not your standard dictatorship, the US is a dictatorship that has succeeded in fooling and tricking their people into thinking they live in a "free country."
Iraq Baath Party History...Enjoy the read!
But the rise of German fascism also played a role. Many in the Arab world saw Hitler as an ally. In 1941, the Arab world was electrified by a pro-Axis coup in Baghdad. At that time, Iraq was nominally independent but Britain maintained a strong military presence. An Arab nationalist by the name of Rashid Ali al-Kailani organised an army coup against the pro-British Iraqi monarchy and requested help from Nazi Germany. In Damascus, then a Vichy French colony, the Baath Party founders immediately organised public demonstrations in support of Rashid Ali.

After the Second World War, the Baathists emerged as the leadership of Arab nationalism for two reasons. First, they were the only force with a coherent ideology. Second, the existing Arab political elites were blamed for the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948. Nor was Islam a competitor. For the Western-educated founders of Baathism, Islam smacked of backwardness. For the nascent Islamic fundamentalists, the Baathists were substituting Arabism for the much wider historic conquests of Muslim civilisation. But it was that pan-Arab nationalism that appealed to discontented Arab youth in the Fifties and Sixties.

Baathism had something else to offer these youths: its tight, disciplined internal organisation which - at any rate, before the party became corrupt - stood in sharp contrast to the ramshackle nature of many Arab civil institutions.

Like the Nazi and Communist parties, the Baath is organised through small cells in a rigid hierarchy. Members are expected to devote their life to the party. In Iraq, would-be members pass through four stages even before becoming a full member: supporter, sympathiser, nominee and trainee. Currently, there are about two million Iraqis in these categories. The system requires passing successfully a series of tests, so full members of Saddam's Baathist organisation are the most hardened and fanatical of his supporters.

With war looming, Saddam has extended this principle with the establishment of Fedayeen Saddam, many of whom have been in action against allied troops. The Fedayeen consists of teenage level members or novices eager to move up in the Baath hierarchy ladder. In this respect, they are very reminiscent of the Hitler Youth.

It is estimated that there are about 40,000 full members of the Baath Party in Iraq. Each is assigned to an autonomous cell. A cell consists of three to five members, only one of whom would have a link to the next level of operation. This limits the ability to penetrate the organisation from without. This structure was born of the original clandestine and illegal life of the Baathists before they came to power.

In 1947, the Baath Party was set up as a single party covering all the Arab counties, under a National Command (actually a pan-national body). In each Arab nation, a Regional Command - ostensibly the leadership of the local Baath Party - was created. The Iraqi branch of the Baath party was established in 1954. In the post-war period, the restored Iraqi monarchy was stoutly pro-Western, but it was overthrown in a military coup in 1958.
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/baath.html
Hey your halfway their! :mrgreen: :rofl
 
stsburns said:
Iraq Baath Party History...Enjoy the read!

Hey your halfway their! :mrgreen: :rofl

With all due respect, I didn't join the army or become a cop (for a very brief period of time), so that Bush or some crooked president can just do whatevery he wants to do with no accoutability towards him. I joined the army, because I was patriot. Because I believed in this country. Because I believed in freedom. I am not about to stand aside while crooks in Washington destroy everything that so many people died for and that which is worth keeping. They are using terrorism as a pretext to destroy freedom, to escape accountability and to gain more power unjustly and at the expense of everybody else.
 
TimmyBoy said:
With all due respect, I didn't join the army or become a cop (for a very brief period of time), so that Bush or some crooked president can just do whatevery he wants to do with no accoutability towards him. I joined the army, because I was patriot. Because I believed in this country. Because I believed in freedom. I am not about to stand aside while crooks in Washington destroy everything that so many people died for and that which is worth keeping. They are using terrorism as a pretext to destroy freedom, to escape accountability and to gain more power unjustly and at the expense of everybody else.
Well Iraq today still isn't as bad as the War of 1812, when America was at war with itself, just for the sake of being at war. Iraq is not a battle for power, it is to finnish a job that should have been done ages ago. Damn Collin Powel!

Have you ever watched the Family Guy episode: When Peter was going into a flashback and "All of Thomas Jefferson's children get into the picture, and all 20 of his African American families come into the picture!" :rofl

Corruption will always be in our government, that's why their are checks and balances?
 
stsburns said:
Well Iraq today still isn't as bad as the War of 1812, when America was at war with itself, just for the sake of being at war. Iraq is not a battle for power, it is to finnish a job that should have been done ages ago. Damn Collin Powel!

Have you ever watched the Family Guy episode: When Peter was going into a flashback and "All of Thomas Jefferson's children get into the picture, and all 20 of his African American families come into the picture!" :rofl

Corruption will always be in our government, that's why their are checks and balances?

Corruption will always be in the government, true. But the checks and balances will sometimes fail and the only people left to keep the government in check is the people themselves. You have to have balls and be willing to stand up and fight against the government when the checks and balances have failed. You will never have a life worth living if you do not stand up for yourself and your freedom. America is a nation of winners because the people themselves in the past were willing to stand up and fight for their freedom and take their future in their own hands. It's why we are a capitalist country, it is why we have traditionally been a free country. It is why we have traditionally been a country of winners. But I see some of our freedoms from the past, disappearing today under the pretext of terrorism. And terrorism is a real threat, but their is a right way and a wrong way to fight terror. Destroying a nation's freedom is the wrong way.
 
Last edited:
TimmyBoy said:
Corruption will always be in the government, true. But the checks and balances will sometimes fail and the only people left to keep the government in check is the people themselves. You have to have balls and be willing to stand up and fight against the government when the checks and balances have failed. You will never have a life worth living if you do not stand up for yourself and your freedom.
I have stood up to people, but I don't argue with those who can findout about me at the drop of a hat. Kinda like becoming good budies with the tough guy in a bar. He may not be your best friend, but at least you know he's not going to get into a bar fight with him. "If you haven't found anything worth dieing for, than you haven't found a reason to live."
 
stsburns said:
I have stood up to people, but I don't argue with those who can findout about me at the drop of a hat. Kinda like becoming good budies with the tough guy in a bar. He may not be your best friend, but at least you know he's not going to get into a bar fight with him. "If you haven't found anything worth dieing for, than you haven't found a reason to live."

Real freedom and my family is worth dying for. Real freedom is what Americans in the past died for. Fake freedom is not what real americans have died for.
 
Honesty, truth and real freedom is what real americans have fought for, died for and obtained. I do not want to see that disappear.
 
TimmyBoy said:
Real freedom and my family is worth dying for. Real freedom is what Americans in the past died for. Fake freedom is not what real americans have died for.
Come on man people have died for more stupid reasons than holding a gun in their hand. Atleast they get to defend themselves. I have heard from so many Marines that they were safer in Bagdad than they were in their own home. THAT IS A SHAME!

What is your definition of "Real Freedom?" "Fake Freedom"

Can I go buy it: Buy one get one Free!

Come on man, I can't believe you believe this BS!
 
TimmyBoy said:
Honesty, truth and real freedom is what real americans have fought for, died for and obtained. I do not want to see that disappear.
Here is thought that should stump even the most complex of minds.

"The truth is whatever you see, hear, feel, and choose to believe"-stsburns

I will not respond to a quick response to this post! Think...that is all I ask.
 
TimmyBoy said:
Of course I can tell the difference.....

Nope I stand by my previous post. And you didn't even try to rehabilitate your statement about Democrats and Republicans being no different.
 
Stinger said:
Nope I stand by my previous post. And you didn't even try to rehabilitate your statement about Democrats and Republicans being no different.

I don't think republicans and democrats are all that much different. They are all politicans and a politican for the most part, is a crook if you ask me. The democrats and the republicans pretty much protect the same interests.
 
TimmyBoy said:
I didn't admit anything. Their was no admission in my statement. Funny you should mention immigrants. When I was in college majoring in computer science, I spoke with some former Soviet immigrants whom I studied with. They said that in the Soviet Union, everybody knew they were not free and they said even though the propaganda was rather crude, the government was more open and honest about telling people they don't live in a free country. They continued by stating that when they came here to the US, the propaganda here in the US was much better and that the US government had suceeded in tricking and fooling the American people into falsely believing they live in a "free country." They said, that it is much more difficult to stop some of the tyrannical practices of the US government because they have the American people so brainwashed and fooled, that they don't even realize they live in a tyrannical society. The US government has done an excellent job of managing perception and facilitating the illusion of freedom in the US, when in fact, we don't have freedom and do not live in a free country.

Kinda hard to hide the slaughter of over 4 times as many people as Hitler had killed at the hands of the Soviet government.

Are you totally oblivious of your own molehill to mountain comparisons?
 
Back
Top Bottom