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US business and universal healthcare

Corporations are largely in support of the gov paying for their employees health benefits. What gives you the impression they are not?

Really? You really believe that the vast majority of corporations are in support of single payer? So why don;t we have single payer then? Do you contend that corporations have little power when it comes to government policy?
 
Not just saying: "You will love single payer." when you obviously don;t understand the ramifications and issues surrounding it.

Comments like that tell me it's you who has that issue and it's a waste of time. You can google and read on the topic.
 
Really? You really believe that the vast majority of corporations are in support of single payer? So why don;t we have single payer then? Do you contend that corporations have little power when it comes to government policy?

Many businesses would be glad to not have to pay for healthcare, but it's a far more important issue to the private healthcare insurance industry. It's like saying 'other businesses might prefer we didn't waste to much on the military, but the military industry obviously cares a lot more that we do'. They each get their 'favors'. Their own favors are what they care more about.
 
Really? You really believe that the vast majority of corporations are in support of single payer? So why don;t we have single payer then? Do you contend that corporations have little power when it comes to government policy?
Enough people have not been duped into supporting this corporate welfare yet.
 
Comments like that tell me it's you who has that issue and it's a waste of time. You can google and read on the topic.
Yeah.. says the man that called me "obtuse"...
Either you can show some evidence of your claims.. or you cannot.

You need to do some research before stating things that you apparently have NO IDEA about.
 
Enough people have not been duped into supporting this corporate welfare yet.
So you are saying that people have more power with the government than business interests and corporations? Hmm
 
Many businesses would be glad to not have to pay for healthcare, but it's a far more important issue to the private healthcare insurance industry. It's like saying 'other businesses might prefer we didn't waste to much on the military, but the military industry obviously cares a lot more that we do'. They each get their 'favors'. Their own favors are what they care more about.
Sooo.. your claim is that the healthcare industry.. is more powerful politically than all the other businesses and corporations in america combined?
 
Sooo.. your claim is that the healthcare industry.. is more powerful politically than all the other businesses and corporations in america combined?

No, you don't understand. How do I help you... I even gave you an analogy... Each industry has its top priorities for itself. Companies want those more than they want secondary things. Universal healthcare is a secondary thing for every industry except the healthcare industry, for whom it is the top priority. E.g., oil care more about keeping its subsidies and drilling rights than it cares about ending its healthcare costs.
 
You need to do some research before stating things that you apparently have NO IDEA about.

One step from no longer reading your posts. Ball's in your court.
 
No, you don't understand. How do I help you... I even gave you an analogy... Each industry has its top priorities for itself. Companies want those more than they want secondary things. Universal healthcare is a secondary thing for every industry except the healthcare industry, for whom it is the top priority. E.g., oil care more about keeping its subsidies and drilling rights than it cares about ending its healthcare costs.
That doesn't make sense.
It's not like when a company lobbies..they can lobby for ONLY one thing.
So you are saying that all these companies would benefit greatly from single payer..
But they dont care about saving money and increasing profits.?
 
Healthcare is only a pillar because it's the particular benefit unions selected. Having everyone get healthcare and unions get different benefits is not a problem.

What do you mean “and unions get different benefit?”

It will likely be a problem because unions will complain that they gave up all sorts of imagined pay increases over the years in exchange for keeping their health benefits extremely generous, so many will likely turn to their employers and want pay increases in exchange for this long-negotiated benefit being replaced by a universal federal benefit, and many employers will balk.
 
That doesn't make sense.
It's not like when a company lobbies..they can lobby for ONLY one thing.
So you are saying that all these companies would benefit greatly from single payer..
But they dont care about saving money and increasing profits.?

I can only repeat it, the benefit to companies of single-payer is far less to them than the harm of it is to the private healthcare insurance industry. They may not be able to get only one thing, but they can't get every little thing when other powerful interests are much more strongly against them on it.

Republicans serve them all. Progressives serve the people.
 
I can only repeat it, the benefit to companies of single-payer is far less to them than the harm of it is to the private healthcare insurance industry. They may not be able to get only one thing, but they can't get every little thing when other powerful interests are much more strongly against them on it.

Republicans serve them all. Progressives serve the people.
So you are claiming that the medical industry..is more powerful than all the other industries in the country combined.

You realize that makes no sense right?
 
So you are claiming that the medical industry..is more powerful than all the other industries in the country combined.

You realize that makes no sense right?

I'll tell you what. You write that same thing 100 more times, and then 200, and then 500, and then 1000.

And then, go back and read what I wrote the first, and all the rest of the times you said the same thing. And then don't understand it again, and write the same thing some more.
 
I'll tell you what. You write that same thing 100 more times, and then 200, and then 500, and then 1000.

And then, go back and read what I wrote the first, and all the rest of the times you said the same thing. And then don't understand it again, and write the same thing some more.
Hmmm....you dont seem to understand this debate thing ..do you.
I read what you wrote.. it doesnt make logical sense as I point out...Unless you believe the healthcare industry is more powerful than all other industries combined...
You keep repeating it rather than offering any defense of you logic.
 
Hmmm....you dont seem to understand this debate thing ..do you.
I read what you wrote.. it doesnt make logical sense as I point out...Unless you believe the healthcare industry is more powerful than all other industries combined...
You keep repeating it rather than offering any defense of you logic.

No, I explained why you were were wrong, and you keep repeating yourself.
 
No, I explained why you were were wrong, and you keep repeating yourself.
Nope you didn't. You repeated the same illogical premise.
Lets look at your logic.
All industries but healthcare want singlepayer as it will benefit them greatly.
Healthcare industry does not want singlepayer..
They only way logically we don't get it based on your premise..is if the healthcare industry is more powerful than all other industries combined.
 
Nope you didn't. You repeated the same illogical premise.
Lets look at your logic.
All industries but healthcare want singlepayer as it will benefit them greatly.
Healthcare industry does not want singlepayer..
They only way logically we don't get it based on your premise..is if the healthcare industry is more powerful than all other industries combined.

Your argument is false. Say please and I'll waste the time to spell it out once again.
 
Your argument is false. Say please and I'll waste the time to spell it out once again.
Its YOUR argument. Not mine.
But..
Pretty please with sugar on top. Go on.
 
Its YOUR argument. Not mine.
But..
Pretty please with sugar on top. Go on.

Once again.

There are primary interests each faction has. Its most important desires. And then there are a thousand smaller ones that would be nice to have.

The way it works, basically, is that it's pay to play. That's the entrance fee. Donate to parties, PACs, candidates, hire a party's former members and staff as lobbyists, and so on.

Once you have done that, you get to be heard about what you want. But those wants don't include, 'oh and destroy that other donor to save me a few bucks'.

As I explained, the interest in companies not paying healthcare is far, far less than the healthcare insurance industry's entire existence being based on not adopting single-payer.

So you want to say, 'a bunch of companies who benefit from single-payer are less powerful than one industry, healthcare'. But they aren't all pushing for that as their main desire. If they were, the many donors WOULD get their way. It's a minor, 'nice to have' for all of them, and the top priority for insurance. And that means, they get the other thing they want as top priorities, and insurance gets its top priorities.

They all come at the expense, pretty much, of the American people, whether in terms of money, or rights, or protections, or public resources like the environment. Subsidies, blocking regulation, destroying the environment are all things the donors can get at the expense of the American people.

Think of an analogy. Each branch of the armed forces gets spending on things it wants that are arguably excessive. Now Army could say, 'use our influence to cut waste on Navy spending, instead of getting us a bigger budget'. But Army doesn't care about Navy waste as much as it cares about its budget. So it fights for things for itself, and doesn't mess with Navy. Companies fight for their desires, not a more minor priority like single-payer.
 
US business spend a fortune on health insurance. Of course it varies; tens of millions get nothing and tens of millions get expensive insurance. The most powerful, large corporations spend a fortune.

Of course, the healthcare industry that benefits from our expensive private system supports that. But where is the rest of the list?

What incentive do they have to keep paying that fortune to the private insurance industry? Wouldn't they like to save the huge costs, and have their employees instead be covered by a single payer system? It's analogous to whether they'd like to pay for private schools for employee's family, or have a public education system.

Sure, if their expenses are reduced, say, $10,000 for an employee, it's expect for some to go to the employee - but does anyone doubt a company can save $10,000 and tell the employee they're getting a $5,000 raise?

So, where does business stand on this? They largely support Republicans because Republicans support plutocracy and other issues the businesses like, but where are they on single-payer healthcare? And why?

You would think this is a no-brainer for them to lower costs by a fortune.
We won't get UHC until millions of people don't need to take a cut in their pay for it. They are caught in a trap and many only work so they can get coverage. Perhaps if you took over the monthly payments on their company policies they might go for it. Right now it is very unpopular with the many millions that get coverage thru their employers. You need to win them over first. Then you need to fight the insurers lobby. It is not going to be easy. That is why sneaking the public option into the AHC is a good way to wean people off their company policies and insurers. It's not perfect but it is a start.
 
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Once again.

There are primary interests each faction has. Its most important desires. And then there are a thousand smaller ones that would be nice to have.

The way it works, basically, is that it's pay to play. That's the entrance fee. Donate to parties, PACs, candidates, hire a party's former members and staff as lobbyists, and so on.

Once you have done that, you get to be heard about what you want. But those wants don't include, 'oh and destroy that other donor to save me a few bucks'.

As I explained, the interest in companies not paying healthcare is far, far less than the healthcare insurance industry's entire existence being based on not adopting single-payer.

So you want to say, 'a bunch of companies who benefit from single-payer are less powerful than one industry, healthcare'. But they aren't all pushing for that as their main desire. If they were, the many donors WOULD get their way. It's a minor, 'nice to have' for all of them, and the top priority for insurance. And that means, they get the other thing they want as top priorities, and insurance gets its top priorities.

They all come at the expense, pretty much, of the American people, whether in terms of money, or rights, or protections, or public resources like the environment. Subsidies, blocking regulation, destroying the environment are all things the donors can get at the expense of the American people.

Think of an analogy. Each branch of the armed forces gets spending on things it wants that are arguably excessive. Now Army could say, 'use our influence to cut waste on Navy spending, instead of getting us a bigger budget'. But Army doesn't care about Navy waste as much as it cares about its budget. So it fights for things for itself, and doesn't mess with Navy. Companies fight for their desires, not a more minor priority like single-payer.
So in a nut shell. Industries in America don't see single payer as much of an advantage for them.
Which is in part why we don't have single payer.
Hmmm didn't you just basically agree with me and all the posts I made on WHY.. companies wouldn't see single payer as an advantage?
It took a long time but you seem to be coming around
 
So in a nut shell. Industries in America don't see single payer as much of an advantage for them.
Which is in part why we don't have single payer.
Hmmm didn't you just basically agree with me and all the posts I made on WHY.. companies wouldn't see single payer as an advantage?
It took a long time but you seem to be coming around
They want to keep the old system because it gives them leverage to keep wages down. Many only continue working to keep their coverage and they tell themselves that the low wage is not as important as HC coverage. UHC would require that they boost wages and pay money for UHC AND they couldn't claim they have better healthcare coverage then their competitor to keep them working for peanuts.
 
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