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Unreported Israeli Terror

Why should anyone need to negotiate? Why don't the Israelis just give the land back, stop stealing the water, release unjustly imprisoned Palestinians, and generally do what has already been negotiated?


Why don't you stop spreading propaganda. The Israels legally occupied that land after a war. Why don't you and your palestinian friends agree to recognize Israel's right to exist and then dismantle your terrorist groups.

:shock:
 
Vader said:
The areas taken by the Irsaelis in `67 is called "the spoils of war" and the Palestinians are NOT entitled to have them back. Second, when the palestinans are willing to embrace a non-terrorist government there will be room to discuss what they want.

Wait a minute--you can't be serious. If you are, then if the Iranians do invade Israel and they kill all the Jews there, you'd be for letting them keep it?

Vader said:
For the record "Jerusalem" translated means "Temple of the Jews"

I thought it meant "Green City" or "Garden City"...

Vader said:
The arabs invaded Judea around the time of the Romans and then murdered or enslaved those living there. As such, the Palestinians have NO CLAIM to that land.

Well, the Jews took it from people living there in the time of Mosheh, and as such, they should have no claim to it either, at least by that logic.
 
Wait a minute--you can't be serious. If you are, then if the Iranians do invade Israel and they kill all the Jews there, you'd be for letting them keep it?.

No, I would be nuking Terhan and all costal Iranian cities, nuclear facilities, military bases, and other targets of opportunity.

Well, the Jews took it from people living there in the time of Mosheh, and as such, they should have no claim to it either, at least by that logic.

According to the bible, god gave that land to the jews. Of course, I wasn't alive then but I still believe that the land that was taken from the jews and then reclaimed by the jews should be theirs.

In any event, Israel cannot simply move because some arab terrorists and some criminal islamic clerics don't like them. In that regard, I think you need to read about the Mufti. He was an arab scumbag who was allied with the Nazis.

Here is some text:

In 1941, Haj Amin al-Husseini fled to Germany and met with Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, Joachim Von Ribbentrop and other Nazi leaders. He wanted to persuade them to extend the Nazis’ anti-Jewish program to the Arab world.

The Mufti sent Hitler 15 drafts of declarations he wanted Germany and Italy to make concerning the Middle East. One called on the two countries to declare the illegality of the Jewish home in Palestine. Furthermore, “they accord to Palestine and to other Arab countries the right to solve the problem of the Jewish elements in Palestine and other Arab countries, in accordance with the interest of the Arabs and, by the same method, that the question is now being settled in the Axis countries.”1

Source: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/muftihit.html

As a result, I will not sit here and listen to people claiming the arabs are innocent because this is a lie. The arabs, the Mufti, Muqtada Al Sadr, the Ayetollah, the mullahs, and the rest of those crazy brianwashed murderers are NOT innocent and ALL OF THEM need the same treatment they and their brainwashed predecessors gave the jews.
 
Vader said:
No, I would be nuking Terhan and all costal Iranian cities, nuclear facilities, military bases, and other targets of opportunity.

But suppose they find a way to survive/ deflect our counter-attacks? Or suppose no one counter attacks to begin with. You've introduced a principle which commits you to saying that they'd be entitled to keep that territory.

I'm sure you think this is unlikely--that's beside the point. Suppose it does happen--what then?

Vader said:
According to the bible, god gave that land to the jews. Of course, I wasn't alive then but I still believe that the land that was taken from the jews and then reclaimed by the jews should be theirs.

Why should the Bible even enter into it? If the claims of the Bible are correct--i.e. that God really did grant the land to the Jews, you think it would have been possible for them to be evicted? Do you think that the Romans or the Arabs are actually more powerful that God?

Vader said:
In any event, Israel cannot simply move because some arab terrorists and some criminal islamic clerics don't like them.

Again, wait just a minute--you just said that Israel gets to keep territory gained in war. So if the Palestinians do kick the Israelis out or slaughter them (or the Iranians, or the Russians, Chinese, French, whoever), then they're entitled to keep the land. Screw what the Israelis can or cannot simply do--it's all down to simple force, it appears.

Vader said:
In that regard, I think you need to read about the Mufti. He was an arab scumbag who was allied with the Nazis.

I've read some on it. I don't see any reason to believe that this means all Palestinians, Iranians, or Arabs, even militant ones, have any present connection to Naziism.

Vader said:
As a result, I will not sit here and listen to people claiming the arabs are innocent because this is a lie. The arabs, the Mufti, Muqtada Al Sadr, the Ayetollah, the mullahs, and the rest of those crazy brianwashed murderers are NOT innocent and ALL OF THEM need the same treatment they and their brainwashed predecessors gave the jews.

That's simply absurd. Are you aware of how many groups were connected in some way with the Nazis? Elements in our own government that still exist today had such connections. The Neocons have such connections. Etc. Etc.

Furthermore, look at the words you used: "I will not sit here and listen..." That seems to me to be the essence of brainwashing right there. Someone who won't listen to a particular idea.
 
Vader,

You claiming that the arabs massacred and enslaved everyone when they liberated the people of palestine from the romans proves you are an idiot and a bigot. When you read a couple of books not issued to you from your church priest or your hate sites, i will begin taking you seriously.

Also, I would be fine with Israel claiming the land, but then shouldnt it be the right thing to do to provide those natives in that land equal status?
 
Also, Haj amin fled palestine because of the brutal british repression of the Great revolt in palestine in the 30s where most palestinian political leaders were killed or imprisoned. He naturally allied himself with the enemies of his enemies.

The Zionists contacted the Nazis as well and requested assistance in the mass expulsion of jews from nazi controlled europe into palestine.
 
Vader,

You claiming that the arabs massacred and enslaved everyone when they liberated the people of palestine from the romans proves you are an idiot and a bigot. When you read a couple of books not issued to you from your church priest or your hate sites, i will begin taking you seriously.

Also, I would be fine with Israel claiming the land, but then shouldnt it be the right thing to do to provide those natives in that land equal status?


I'm not a bigot... you're a terrorist. If anything, I am a realist and I happen to have seen war first hand. I don't think you have because if you had, you wouldn't be speaking in such a fashion.

As to your claims about the illegitimacy of the murder and insalvement of the jews, I am correct... and YOU are an idiot for believing the brainwashing and indoctrination of Islam-o-nazism.

The arabs DID slaughter and/or inslave the jews ... but then so did the romans. In fact, if not for the romans being avid anti-semites they were, there would never have been a disbute over who that land belongs to. This is historical fact. If you and your cleric don't like it, TOO BAD.

You call me a biggot but the only racist here is you. You need to remove your head from your rear and realize who the real racist is.

In the meantime, Follow the link in the previous message ... then get a clue and stop being a terrorist-sympathizer.
 
But suppose they find a way to survive/ deflect our counter-attacks? Or suppose no one counter attacks to begin with. You've introduced a principle which commits you to saying that they'd be entitled to keep that territory.

I'm sure you think this is unlikely--that's beside the point. Suppose it does happen--what then?



Why should the Bible even enter into it? If the claims of the Bible are correct--i.e. that God really did grant the land to the Jews, you think it would have been possible for them to be evicted? Do you think that the Romans or the Arabs are actually more powerful that God?



Again, wait just a minute--you just said that Israel gets to keep territory gained in war. So if the Palestinians do kick the Israelis out or slaughter them (or the Iranians, or the Russians, Chinese, French, whoever), then they're entitled to keep the land. Screw what the Israelis can or cannot simply do--it's all down to simple force, it appears.



I've read some on it. I don't see any reason to believe that this means all Palestinians, Iranians, or Arabs, even militant ones, have any present connection to Naziism.



That's simply absurd. Are you aware of how many groups were connected in some way with the Nazis? Elements in our own government that still exist today had such connections. The Neocons have such connections. Etc. Etc.

Furthermore, look at the words you used: "I will not sit here and listen..." That seems to me to be the essence of brainwashing right there. Someone who won't listen to a particular idea.

By your logic, the Israelis took that land and that's all there is to it. Of course, the American indians lost their land back in the 1700's and 1800's and they're not out blowing themselves up to get it back....the palestinians on the other hand.... well you know.

Furthermore, I never said the arabs were the only group connected to the nazis. I have been working for years to get Chase Manhattan delt with because of their ties to Nazi Germany. I don't like their ties to evil and I stand against them for it; however, unlike Jenin, I can admit that my people mad a grevious error. Jenin is a product of massive islamic interference in governement and education...not to mention brainwashing; therefore, his attacks on the truth must be excused.

In any event, he... like most people from Islam-run countries, is unable to distinguish the lies and hatemongering forced on them for the truth. In these countries the government doesn't want a free popluace because it threatens their [government's] control over them.

Remember ... the arabs hate the jews ... just because they exist... then they have the sheer, unmitigated gaul to call other people biggots.

:doh
 
Moderator's Warning:
Just a gentle reminder, guys...keep it civil.
 
I find it very pitty that a member in here choosed the name of 'Jenin' as his username. The name 'Jenin' will be remembered forever as a nest of terror that launched most of the suicide bombers in the history of the war - that the Arabs who've got 22 countries have opened years ago to steal also the small strip of Jewish land. In 2002 there were dozens of terror attacks which were done by people from Jenin.
 
Cherokee,

I apoligize for my lack of elaboration on a particular sentence that you misunderstood, so i will try again:

Hamas' first suicide bomb attack was initiated in retaliation to the massacre of over a dozen palestinians inside a mosque by settler.

Random palestinian acts of desperate violence against their Israeli masters have been recorded extensively.. Hamas organized these random acts of violence into a national movement.

Hamas' resistance movement began earlier than that during the first intifada in the late 80s and did terrorize alot of occupying israeli soldiers.

Hamas has been opposed to the two state solution and has been for the defeat of 'the zionist entity/regime' and the replacement of that zionist entity by a unified palestine in which jews, christians and muslims must live under islamic law.

The beach attack was an attack by the Israeli military against a palestinian family. You can shut one part of your humanity and activate another, but you cant twist fact into fiction to justify an illegal occupation.

I invite you to take a trip to the occupied territories and Israel, because I can see that this matter interests you. I hope when you are there, observing the facts on the ground you will understand the true contex of the conflict and refrain from your selective bias.



Answer the questions I asked you in my post.
As for your Invite read my signature below. I have been to the region. I wasn’t impressed with the “thank you” we received from the hamas's inbreed cousins the Hezbollah.
Thats what we got for trying to help...
 
We are living in an age where the opressor becomes the oppressed and where the opressed becomes the great opressor.

This is my collection of thought and research on some issues I felt inclined to clarify and point out because of the vhement rhetorical disinformation being spewed around these forums and through time seeping in to become fact. I feel like this is another branch of the redneck media where enough hateful lies will eventually convince an un-knowing viewer that they are true.


The 1948 War in Palestine:

The ethnic cleansing of the cities of Haifa and Jafa and villages in modern day Israel began before Israel's declaration of independence by the Zionist terror militias of Irgun and Stern. One of the most notorious of these episodes occured BEFORE the war in Deri Yassin, where 250 villagers (men women and children) were gunned down, their bodies defiled and stuffed down wells in the village. The Irgun and Stern then began parading arab villages proclaiming via loud speakers "if you do not leave your fate will be like deir yassin". The declaration of Israel's independence was preceeded and followed by an incredible supply of arms from American companies, Checslovakia, the british and other people, nations and organizations of interest... At the same time the Arab puppet kings placed by the british were sanctioned from aquiring any weapons.

The "overwhelming" 5 nations that invaded the "infant israel was in reality 15 to 30 thousand ragtag arab muskateers intervening to stop the genocide occuring and facing 100,000 well armed battle hardened zionist soldiers.

The jews of Haifa and Jaffa (the jewish mayor) begged the Irgun not to evict the arab natives of the cities...this shows that not all jews were for the injustices occuring.



On the treatment of Jews oppressed by Byzantium when the arabs took palestine in the 7th century:


According to Moslem doctrine, Jews are "People of the Book", believers in God, revelation and the Day of Judgment. As such, they are not to be persecuted or forced to become Moslems. No attempt was made to subject them to the Moslem legal code; they were left free to regulate their own communal and personal life in accordance with their own religious laws.



In general, the principles of Islam were obeyed, and in consequence, the Jewish community in the different Arab countries flourished throughout the centuries of mediaeval Arab rule. Although they preserved much of their exclusiveness, they became arabised in their language and culture.



In the history of Jewish culture the Arabic period is among the happiest and most brilliant. In Spain, In Egypt and elsewhere, the arabised Jews not only carried on their own life of devotion and learning but contributed to the general Arabic civilization. In science, medicine, scholarship and speculative thought, Jews enriched the literature of the Arabic tongue; and individual Jews were able to reach the highest positions in the State.



In Palestine as in other countries under Arab rule there continued to be a Jewish community, although after the destruction of the Temple and the revolt of Bar Kochba Palestine ceased to be the physical centre of Jewish life, and ever since the Jewish community has remained small in numbers and urban in character.


My opinion on terrorism (from a previous post): if we try to think clearer about the meaning of the word terrorism, we will realize that the United States and her allies have committed many many more acts of violence with the intention of getting a message accross...The only difference is that the Governments used their 'conventional' military and weaponry to commit these acts of terror. If we are to continue to stereo type muslims and arabs and anyone commiting a violent crime that isnt part of a conventional military as a terrorist and continue to close our eyes to the same and more destructive crimes commited by our own representative governments then we have been brainwashed and there is no reason for any of us participating in this discussion to continue any further.

My comrades, terror is terror is crime is violence is conventional is nonconventional is state terror is group terror is individual terror. terror is terror. American occupation of iraq is terrorism. Al-qaedas crimes against the world are terrorism. Heroshima and Nagasaki is terrorism. Russian war against chechniya and chechen group attacks in russia are terrorism. 60 Year israeli occupation of Palestinian land, deprivation of four million refugees of their right of return, occupation of arab land, control of the water supply, monopolising the capitalist dictatorship in the middle east is state terrorism at its finest, funded and supported by the taxes we all pay every day buying our cappuchino, paper, ect. If we are to continue to ignore terrorism committed by the 'western suit wearing civilizations' and stereo type it to be a word unanimous with muslims and arabs then we are an ignorant people that deserve the two party dictatorship ruling us for the past century. Thomas Jefferson would be rolling in his grave if he knew that the 'free press' has limited our thinking and contrained our free spirit and will to greater civilization and become the governments greatest asset in controlling the american people.


For those of you who are willing to understand and have an open channel dialogue with me, I would like to end my point...Muslims are not and have never been the driving force behind terrorism, and terrorism is has not, is not, and will not be committed by muslims alone, and as it is now and has been -- the bulk of terrorism is not commited by muslims.

Fighting fire with fire will only create more fire.

Open your minds, quit being slaves in spirit.



This is all I would like to add for now,

thank you
 
Cherokee,

For your first question about the sharpnel,

I am not in the medical field. My studies are in Engineering. The link you provided shows that all investigations and eyewhitness accounts blame the Israeli military. The only people denying are the IDF.

Hamas' opinion on the matter of resistance is that they see through the media fog and believe Israel does not want to end its occupation of the west bank...they point to oslo process, the continuation of settlement expansion, continuation of invasions and attacks such as the gaza blast as the evidence. One reason the palestinian people voted for them was because they believed that was the case as well. How can there be peace if the largest settlement of ma'li adumim had bisected the west bank in half and closed off east jerusalem. How can there be peace if every day settlers in hebron and elsewhere instigate violent attacks on the palestinians and cut down their olive trees their way of life. How can there be peace if land is confiscated for dozens of roads and settlements exclusively jewish... you see its a pretty pessemistic point of view...but they are not exactly living in dreamland.

Resistance is a must. These 'terrorists' are children, young men, college students, palestinian refugees and others that weild their guns rocks and molotovs and improvize their rockets and face off the world's fouth greatest military. These terrorists are the brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers and children of someone brutally murdered by israel. they are the former inhabitants of Irael proper that were expelled into the camps and gaza. They say Israel will kill them anyways, so they might as well keep on fighting....

NOTE: I do not necessarily agree with the Hamas POV, but I understand it.
That is hamas' pov.
 
The ethnic cleansing of the cities of Haifa and Jafa and villages in modern day Israel began before Israel's declaration of independence by the Zionist terror militias of Irgun and Stern. One of the most notorious of these episodes occured BEFORE the war in Deri Yassin, where 250 villagers (men women and children) were gunned down, their bodies defiled and stuffed down wells in the village. The Irgun and Stern then began parading arab villages proclaiming via loud speakers "if you do not leave your fate will be like deir yassin". The declaration of Israel's independence was preceeded and followed by an incredible supply of arms from American companies, Checslovakia, the british and other people, nations and organizations of interest... At the same time the Arab puppet kings placed by the british were sanctioned from aquiring any weapons.
These are nothing but lies!

In 1948, Arab leaders urged their people to leave, promising to cleanse the land of Jewish presence. 68% of them fled without ever setting eyes on an Israeli soldier. Virtually the entire Jewish population of Muslim countries had to flee as the result of violence and pogroms. Some 630,000 Arabs left Israel in 1948, while close to a million Jews were forced to leave the Muslim countries.

And by the way, there wasn't any Palestine state and there are no Palestinian people - that's all fake.

It's funny how Islam - which forced its dreams upon millions of people and occupied half of this world by suppressing millions of people - is the most violant thing on earth and the ones who called themselves as Muslims are crying wolf when they are loosing wars that they started. Islam is a religion of peace and it will kill you to prove it.
 
Cherokee,

For your first question about the sharpnel,

I am not in the medical field. My studies are in Engineering. The link you provided shows that all investigations and eyewhitness accounts blame the Israeli military. The only people denying are the IDF.
Peretz: IDF not involved in Gaza beach blast
IDF: Shrapnel found in Gazan boy not from shell
German paper doubts Gaza beach reports
Different views of Gaza deaths

Hamas' opinion on the matter of resistance is that they see through the media fog and believe Israel does not want to end its occupation of the west bank...they point to oslo process, the continuation of settlement expansion, continuation of invasions and attacks such as the gaza blast as the evidence. One reason the palestinian people voted for them was because they believed that was the case as well. How can there be peace if the largest settlement of ma'li adumim had bisected the west bank in half and closed off east jerusalem. How can there be peace if every day settlers in hebron and elsewhere instigate violent attacks on the palestinians and cut down their olive trees their way of life. How can there be peace if land is confiscated for dozens of roads and settlements exclusively jewish... you see its a pretty pessemistic point of view...but they are not exactly living in dreamland.
Yeah, we saw what the Palestinians did to the synagogues that we left in Gaza (video)
and we all saw how they turn these places to bases to launch their rockets at Israel whilst they screamed: "Today Gaza, tomorrow Tel Aviv". Hamas declared more than once that he wishes to destroy Israel:

Hamas Video: We will drink the blood of the Jews

Post-Election Video: Gaza leads to Haifa

Hamas Head: Terrorism will continue

Pre-Election Video (in English)

Election Ad on PA TV

Hamas Lists Mother of Suicide Terrorists as Candidate

Hamas Video: Armed Struggle until Destruction of Israel

Hamas Video: More terror; Israel will be destroyed

Resistance is a must. These 'terrorists' are children, young men, college students, palestinian refugees and others that weild their guns rocks and molotovs and improvize their rockets and face off the world's fouth greatest military. These terrorists are the brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers and children of someone brutally murdered by israel. they are the former inhabitants of Irael proper that were expelled into the camps and gaza. They say Israel will kill them anyways, so they might as well keep on fighting....

NOTE: I do not necessarily agree with the Hamas POV, but I understand it.
That is hamas' pov.
Yeah resistence...

They are nothing but Nazi scum who should be destroyed as soon as possible!

Palestinian police officers salute during a graduation ceremony in the West Bank town of Jenin May 9, 2006:
newnazis3kv.jpg


palestiniansiegheil1vc.jpg
 
There is no 'palestine' yet My father, grandfather, his great grand father and their fathers have lived there, considered it their home and prayed in the dome of the rock in jerusalem every friday. My ancestors have lived there longer than the an jewish kingdom.... the dome of the rock has stood there longer than any jewish kingdom. I dont deny your right as a jew to live there, why do you deny my native rights?

As for the 'lies' comment....I dare you to contest any single sentence i wrote that you quoted me in with an unbiased factual link.

I hope we can learn from each other and let the truth out...
 
This is my collection of thought and research on some issues I felt inclined to clarify and point out because of the vhement rhetorical disinformation being spewed around these forums and through time seeping in to become fact. I feel like this is another branch of the redneck media where enough hateful lies will eventually convince an un-knowing viewer that they are true.
Rather than rely on your personal collection of thought, most people prefer unbiased sources:

1948 Arab-Israeli War

Six-Day War (1967)

Yom Kippur War

I think most will agree that Wikipedia is not a function of redneck media - as you so indelicately put it. Is it your habit to lump together and slur all media sources who disagree with your personal viewpoint? Poor form.
 
There is no 'palestine' yet My father, grandfather, his great grand father and their fathers have lived there, considered it their home and prayed in the dome of the rock in jerusalem every friday. My ancestors have lived there longer than the an jewish kingdom.... the dome of the rock has stood there longer than any jewish kingdom. I dont deny your right as a jew to live there, why do you deny my native rights?
lol, the doom of the rock was built on the bases of the Jewish temple who was destroyed by the Romans. The Arabs are very good by taking other properties. The temple mount is the most holy place to Jews 2000 years before someone dreamt that he is flying on his "flying horse" to there. And your fathers invaded there from Arabia. It's not their home.
As for the 'lies' comment....I dare you to contest any single sentence i wrote that you quoted me in with an unbiased factual link.

I hope we can learn from each other and let the truth out...
Nonsence! I contradict your dreams that you are trying to promote here. Indeed there was a golden time in Spain but you forgot to mention all the pogroms that the 'Muslims' did to Jews in the 'Muslim countries', you forgot to mention how they were humilated in the 'Muslim countries' by the laws of Umar, they were treated as dhimis and suffered many pogroms from their neighbours.

Read my links in my signature, every word of them is true.
 
Thank you shaya,

The link you provided me on the 1948 war shows that I underestimated the arab troop levels and the Israeli troop levels,

so let me debunk the 5to1 myth by using your own factual links:

Israeli Forces 1948

Initial strength 29,677
4 June 40,825
17 July 63,586
7 October 88,033
28 October 92,275
2 December 106,900
23 December 107,652
30 December 108,300

(Source: Bregman, 2002, p. 24 citing Ben Gurion's diary of the war)

On 26 May 1948, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) was officially established and the Haganah, Palmach and Etzel were dissolved into the army of the new Jewish state.


Jordanian artillery shells Jerusalem in 1948.As the war progressed, the IDF managed to field more troops than the Arab forces. By July 1948, the IDF was fielding 63,000 troops; by early spring 1949, 115,000. The Arab armies had an estimated 40,000 troops in July 1948, rising to 55,000 in October 1948, and slightly more by the spring of 1949.

----

In 1946, Ben-Gurion decided that the Yishuv would probably have to defend itself against both the Palestinian Arabs and neighbouring Arab states and accordingly began a "massive, covert arms acquisition campaign in the West". By September 1947, the Haganah had "10,489 rifles, 702 light machine-guns, 2,666 submachine guns, 186 medium machine-guns, 672 two-inch mortars and 92 three-inch mortars" and acquired many more during the first few months of hostilities. The Yishuv also had "a relatively advanced arms producing capacity", that between October 1947 and July 1948 "produced 3 million 9 mm bullets, 150,000 mills grenades, 16,000 submachine guns (Sten Guns) and 210 three-inch mortars".[33] Still, however, before the arrival of arms shipments from Czechoslovakia as part of Operation Balak, there was roughly one weapon for every three fighters and even the Palmach armed only two out of every three of its active members. Initially, the Haganah had no heavy machine guns, artillery, armoured vehicles, anti-tank or anti-aircraft weapons.[34]



This proves my point that the Israelis were superior in number and military equippment and that the "5 invading 1" line in the media is extremely dishonest because it portrays a simple weaker israel pitted against 5 times its number...i am sure that many forumers reading this thought the same...again im using YOUR sources..

also: whats your response to the 'factual observation' i made regarding the Irgun and stern murders against arab villagers and the loudspeaker propagation of terror they used to make the arabs leave BEFORE the war?


thanks
 
jacob,

your fathers invaded us from europe...according to your point this is most recently not your home.

Oh as for the dhimmis comment,

I know they were taxed for being non muslim and not required to serve in the army (sound familiar? mr idf)?? And these taxes were LESS than the obligatory taxes muslims had to pay (Zakat tax for the poor and needy)
 
jacob,

your fathers invaded us from europe...according to your point this is most recently not your home.
They didn't invade. You misleading. They returned. Your ancestors have invaded cause it wasn't their territory from the first place.
 
There is no 'palestine' yet My father, grandfather, his great grand father and their fathers have lived there, considered it their home and prayed in the dome of the rock in jerusalem every friday. My ancestors have lived there longer than the an jewish kingdom.... the dome of the rock has stood there longer than any jewish kingdom. I dont deny your right as a jew to live there, why do you deny my native rights?

As for the 'lies' comment....I dare you to contest any single sentence i wrote that you quoted me in with an unbiased factual link.

I hope we can learn from each other and let the truth out...


And I dare you to let the truth out.

The Hamas wish only for the destruction of an entire race and Islamic control for the region. They care nothing for the people of Palestine just like the Hezbollah care nothing for the people of Lebanon. So when will it end? Hmm?

The hamas fire off a rocket they know can trace back to its firing location, in turn Israel fires a rocket to said location destroying a home killing several people who had nothing to do with the rocket fired at Israel. Who kill those people? Was it Israel or the Hamas who used these people to become propaganda?

Israel and the Palestine government sit down and work out a peace plan, Its looks like peace may take hold and bring an end to the violence in the region, a Hamas suicide bomber blows up a café or bus derailing the peace plan. Israel finds the people who planed the suicide bombing and kills them.

When does the circle of violence end? When do the people of Palestine get someone who wants to build a better place for its people to live and prosper? Someone who cares about them and not a religious doctrine.
Is it the hamas? I think not. In the schools they run they teach kids to hate and see suicide bombers as hero's.

Will it be Abbas? Maybe but will he ever get the chance before the hamas launch a civil war against him?

So jenin when does it end, who is willing to do whatever is needed to end it?
Will you? Will anyone?
 
Oh as for the dhimmis comment,

I know they were taxed for being non muslim and not required to serve in the army (sound familiar? mr idf)?? And these taxes were LESS than the obligatory taxes muslims had to pay (Zakat tax for the poor and needy)
You know also the pogroms? You know also the laws of Umar? Here you go, watch for yourself:
Pact of Umar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Violence Against Jews

At various times, Jews in Muslim lands were able to live in relative peace and thrive culturally and economically. The position of the Jews was never secure, however, and changes in the political or social climate would often lead to persecution, violence and death. Jews were generally viewed with contempt by their Muslim neighbors; peaceful coexistence between the two groups involved the subordination and degradation of the Jews.

When Jews were perceived as having achieved too comfortable a position in Islamic society, anti-Semitism would surface, often with devastating results: On December 30, 1066, Joseph HaNagid, the Jewish vizier of Granada, Spain, was crucified by an Arab mob that proceeded to raze the Jewish quarter of the city and slaughter its 5,000 inhabitants. The riot was incited by Muslim preachers who had angrily objected to what they saw as inordinate Jewish political power.

Similarly, in 1465, Arab mobs in Fez slaughtered thousands of Jews, leaving only 11 alive, after a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in "an offensive manner." The killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout Morocco.(6)

Other mass murders of Jews in Arab lands occurred in Morocco in the 8th century, where whole communities were wiped out by Muslim ruler Idris I; North Africa in the 12th century, where the Almohads either forcibly converted or decimated several communities; Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; Algiers, where Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830 and Marrakesh, Morocco, where more than 300 hundred Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880.(7)

Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt and Syria (1014, 1293-4, 1301-2), Iraq (854-859, 1344) and Yemen (1676). Despite the Koran's prohibition, Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death in Yemen (1165 and 1678), Morocco (1275, 1465 and 1790-92) and Baghdad (1333 and 1344).(8)

As distinguished Orientalist G.E. von Grunebaum has written:

It would not be difficult to put together the names of a very sizeable number of Jewish subjects or citizens of the Islamic area who have attained to high rank, to power, to great financial influence, to significant and recognized intellectual attainment; and the same could be done for Christians. But it would again not be difficult to compile a lengthy list of persecutions, arbitrary confiscations, attempted forced conversions, or pogroms.(9)

The situation of Jews in Arab lands reached a low point in the 19th century. Jews in most of North Africa (including Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Morocco) were forced to live in ghettos. In Morocco, which contained the largest Jewish community in the Islamic Diaspora, Jews were made to walk barefoot or wear shoes of straw when outside the ghetto. Even Muslim children participated in the degradation of Jews, by throwing stones at them or harassing them in other ways. The frequency of anti-Jewish violence increased, and many Jews were executed on charges of apostasy. Ritual murder accusations against the Jews became commonplace in the Ottoman Empire.(10)

By the twentieth century, the status of the dhimmi in Muslim lands had not significantly improved. H.E.W. Young, British Vice Consul in Mosul, wrote in 1909:

The attitude of the Muslims toward the Christians and the Jews is that of a master towards slaves, whom he treats with a certain lordly tolerance so long as they keep their place. Any sign of pretension to equality is promptly repressed.(11)

The danger for Jews became even greater as a showdown approached in the UN over partition in 1947. The Syrian delegate, Faris el-Khouri, warned: "Unless the Palestine problem is settled, we shall have difficulty in protecting and safeguarding the Jews in the Arab world."(12)

More than a thousand Jews were killed in anti-Jewish rioting during the 1940's in Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Syria and Yemen.(13) This helped trigger the mass exodus of Jews from Arab countries.

The Dhimmi

Still, as "People of the Book," Jews (and Christians) are protected under Islamic law. The traditional concept of the "dhimma" ("writ of protection") was extended by Muslim conquerors to Christians and Jews in exchange for their subordination to the Muslims. Peoples subjected to Muslim rule usually had a choice between death and conversion, but Jews and Christians, who adhered to the Scriptures, were allowed as dhimmis (protected persons) to practice their faith. This "protection" did little, however, to insure that Jews and Christians were treated well by the Muslims. On the contrary, an integral aspect of the dhimma was that, being an infidel, he had to openly acknowledge the superiority of the true believer--the Muslim.

In the early years of the Islamic conquest, the "tribute" (or jizya), paid as a yearly poll tax, symbolized the subordination of the dhimmi. Later, the inferior status of Jews and Christians was reinforced through a series of regulations that governed the behavior of the dhimmi. Dhimmis, on pain of death, were forbidden to mock or criticize the Koran, Islam or Muhammad, to proselytize among Muslims or to touch a Muslim woman (though a Muslim man could take a non*Muslim as a wife).

Dhimmis were excluded from public office and armed service, and were forbidden to bear arms. They were not allowed to ride horses or camels, to build synagogues or churches taller than mosques, to construct houses higher than those of Muslims or to drink wine in public. They were not allowed to pray or mourn in loud voices-as that might offend the Muslims. The dhimmi had to show public deference toward Muslims-always yielding them the center of the road. The dhimmi was not allowed to give evidence in court against a Muslim, and his oath was unacceptable in an Islamic court. To defend himself, the dhimmi would have to purchase Muslim witnesses at great expense. This left the dhimmi with little legal recourse when harmed by a Muslim.(4)

Dhimmis were also forced to wear distinctive clothing. In the ninth century, for example, Baghdad's Caliph al-Mutawakkil designated a yellow badge for Jews, setting a precedent that would be followed centuries later in Nazi Germany.(5)
The Treatment of Jews in Arab/Islamic Countries
 
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