- Joined
- Jan 28, 2012
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- 16,386
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- Where I am now
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- Independent
I know what kind of people lived in Alabama before the Civil War and now.
that's some bulletproof logic bro :lol:I see, so you really do believe because racist were in Alabama before the civil war and now that somehow means this whole fraternity , all 220+ chapters, is racist.
No, but I'm not surprised to see some racists in that outfit.
Yeah the national chapter was the quickest to act and shut them down on OU damn near immediately. I'm kind of torn. These kids are stupid and they definitely need to learn a stern lesson but I really don't want to see their lives destroyed for being stupid. I feel that most of us on here are just fortunate that we preceded the internet in our youth so our stupidity didn't get nationalized.
That being said, I can't believe people are in here defending them and excusing it away as free speech. People's reaction to it is free speech too. I just hope people can temper their reaction to it so that these kids learn their lesson but still have a future where they aren't so backed into a corner by opposition that they resist change out of spite and therefore DON'T learn a lesson.
All I can think of is:
Freedom of Expression should always be encouraged...no matter how disgusting that expression is.
Most white kids are listening to vulgar Metal far more than rap and are far more impacted by the lyrics therein.
you'll be hard pressed to find these images in the album art and marketing of rap -
This is a genre that is entirely comprised of White musicians and has a devout and dedicated following of white fans that spans the globe by the millions.
So place whatever filth you see in your own racial community were it actually belongs.
Thank you very much.
No kidding! I already said that I added that. I said this about 10-15 posts back. Are you seriously this desperate to make some kind of point?
I already stated that I discussed both in my post. I discussed the university knowing AND the behavior being acceptable for the members of the fraternity. You even quoted/responded to the post where I first explained this (200). Was the post not clear enough? There is really no concise way to explain that I discussed both issues. However, we're at that stage where you're just trying to not admit that your points really failed to convince anyone.
If this was a group of Muslim students chanting,
no Americans will ever be one of us,
praise ISIS, celebrate 9/11
would some of you still defend that as freedom of speech without repercussions or privacy laws? What would be the difference?
I somewhat agree but one has to live with the consequences of their words as well.All I can think of is:
Freedom of Expression should always be encouraged...no matter how disgusting that expression is.
Do you not think that off campus conduct created a hostile on campus environment?
All I can think of is:
Freedom of Expression should always be encouraged...no matter how disgusting that expression is.
I know what kind of people lived in Alabama before the Civil War and now.
Yeah the national chapter was the quickest to act and shut them down on OU damn near immediately. I'm kind of torn. These kids are stupid and they definitely need to learn a stern lesson but I really don't want to see their lives destroyed for being stupid. I feel that most of us on here are just fortunate that we preceded the internet in our youth so our stupidity didn't get nationalized.
That being said, I can't believe people are in here defending them and excusing it away as free speech. People's reaction to it is free speech too. I just hope people can temper their reaction to it so that these kids learn their lesson but still have a future where they aren't so backed into a corner by opposition that they resist change out of spite and therefore DON'T learn a lesson.
Most white kids are listening to vulgar Metal far more than rap and are far more impacted by the lyrics therein.
you'll be hard pressed to find these images in the album art and marketing of rap -
This is a genre that is entirely comprised of White musicians and has a devout and dedicated following of white fans that spans the globe by the millions.
So place whatever filth you see in your own racial community were it actually belongs.
Thank you very much.
If this was a group of Muslim students chanting,
no Americans will ever be one of us,
praise ISIS, celebrate 9/11
would some of you still defend that as freedom of speech without repercussions or privacy laws? What would be the difference?
This all makes me think of the angst that happens on here when bakers decline to bake a cake for a gay couple. The same people who are outraged by these stupid kids singing a song they don't like are usually the first ones to go nuts over a baker refusing to engage in commerce with someone he doesn't like. He has to serve him, regardless of what he thinks of the gay lifestyle. Isn't that the argument, because the baker is serving the public? This was a public university that decided to expel 2 students because they didn't like what they said, and people applaud that. That to me is hyper-hypocritical.
Agreed. That's why we have it. It works all ways, and both ways. I detest it when college students burn the American flag in protest, but I will defend their right to do it. I detest it when an artist protests religion by displaying a crucifix in a jar of urine, but I will defend his right to do it. And so on. You have to take the good with the bad if you really believe we have a right to free speech. You don't get to pick and choose.
You're conflating two different things there. There is nothing wrong with being 'outraged' at racist speech, or sexist speech, or hate speech of any kind. We are all as free to condemn them publicly and loudly for that speech as they are free to utter it. The only issue is whether the 1st Amendment protects someone from the consequences of that. In this case, the only real issue seems to be whether OU (a public university) should/can expel them for the chant, and I looked and didn't find and can't otherwise recall anyone of any ideology actually expressing any kind of strong support for those kids being expelled, and lots of liberals have said they should not be expelled, which is also my own view. It also seems to be commonly accepted among constitutional lawyers, including the liberal ACLU as you pointed out, that OU cannot legally expel them for this incident - that their speech is protected by the 1st Amendment in this case.
You're conflating two different things there. There is nothing wrong with being 'outraged' at racist speech, or sexist speech, or hate speech of any kind. We are all as free to condemn them publicly and loudly for that speech as they are free to utter it. The only issue is whether the 1st Amendment protects someone from the consequences of that. In this case, the only real issue seems to be whether OU (a public university) should/can expel them for the chant, and I looked and didn't find and can't otherwise recall anyone of any ideology actually expressing any kind of strong support for those kids being expelled, and lots of liberals have said they should not be expelled, which is also my own view. It also seems to be commonly accepted among constitutional lawyers, including the liberal ACLU as you pointed out, that OU cannot legally expel them for this incident - that their speech is protected by the 1st Amendment in this case.
I'm going to hold you to that next time Obama says something you detest - to defend his right to say it. :2razz:
I think it's just such a slippery slope because I think certain things there is a limit to free speech. Like threatening, I mean you wouldn't stand for someone to stand in a public place and issue death threats against one of your son and blow if off as his right to do it, right? So it can't just work all ways, there has to be some kind of line or limit to what you can freely express, or no?
It's all good with me if they don't get kicked out of school. That would be a First Amendment thing inasmuch as a state university is a governmental thing.
To have their frat disbanded and disowned by the national organization is enough and fitting.
Come to think of it, the Democrat Party was also founded in the South before the Civil War. We should probably think about that a little bit, too.
It isn't a slippery slope. And death threats or any other kinds of threats aren't protected by the First Amendment.
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