United States Soverignty For Sale

[Kandahar]

I believe that the U.A.E. is the ones who offered O.B.L. up to Clinton on a silver platter.

They're one of our closest allies in the Middle East and along with Turkey and Jordan, they are one of the most progressive Middle East nations.

Agreed. I'd venture to say that they're even MORE progressive than Turkey and Jordan, as their citizenry is not primarily comprised of raving lunatics.

 

[easyt65]

Agreed. I'd venture to say that they're even MORE progressive than Turkey and Jordan, as their citizenry is not primarily comprised of raving lunatics.

I doubt anyone wants Zarqawi dead more than Jordan right now. The 'homeboy' has been spouting how his war is against Infadels and not against Muslims, and then he kills his fellow countrymen by blowing up that wedding party being held in 1 of the 3 Hotels there in Jordan! (I was actually supposed to be in that hotel 5 days from that attack on 'business'.) Ever since then, Jordan has put a bounty on his head and have given us any help we need to catch him or any of his men! The Jordanians actually 'made a hit' on a suspected Zarqawi stronghold in Iraq 2 weeks later, taking out several of his men!

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Agreed. I'd venture to say that they're even MORE progressive than Turkey and Jordan, as their citizenry is not primarily comprised of raving lunatics.

At the risk of straying off topic we aren't even selling the port WE aren't selling anything, the port is still U.S. territory it's the unloading and loading company which is located at the port which is being sold and not by us the British own it. American companies simply do not do this kind of work and after the sale neither will the Brits, not to mention the overseas loading ports that we have to worry about are already controlled by the U.A.E. anyways.

 

[danarhea]

I believe that the U.A.E. is the ones who offered O.B.L. up to Clinton on a silver platter.

They're one of our closest allies in the Middle East and along with Turkey and Jordan, they are one of the most progressive Middle East nations.

They also had strong ties to bin Laden, and intel puts them as a chief player in the Cole bombing.

As for giving bin Laden up, do you think fear could have played a role in that, instead of the perception that they are allies?

 

[Kandahar]

They also had strong ties to bin Laden, and intel puts them as a chief player in the Cole bombing.

1. This source is not reliable.
2. If the best connection you can draw is that Bin Laden was in a part of Afghanistan near a hunting camp owned by UAE officials, that's pretty weak.

As for giving bin Laden up, do you think fear could have played a role in that, instead of the perception that they are allies?

No.

 

[Stinger]

Most people, including Governor Ed Rendell, and the Philadelphia Port Authority are aghast that this deal was approved by some committee, and NOT the President. And now with a statement from the White House yesterday, saying that President Bush didn't know about this until a few days ago? Come on. The President SHOULD be delaying it, to at least review it. He IS the President, isn't he?

That is EXACTLY how the Congress mandated it when they set the proceedures up 30 years ago. It only reaches the presidential level when it is rejected. You want the president to go outside the law?

 

[Stinger]

Most of these members of Congress, who are suddenly so outraged, didn't know about this until a few days ago either.

That's their own fault it's been public knowledge from the get-go, back in October. Bloomberg News reported on it.

You know, with all of the REAL national security issues that get swept under the rug, there are a lot more important things we need to be doing than having some committee review a non-issue like this.

If congress wants to look into it they will, but the law as THEY set forth was followed to a tee and then some.

 

[Stinger]

I'm wondering how today, a statement comes from the White House saying congress could have been briefed sooner on this event, when yesterday it was noted Bush did not know until a few days ago. And since members of Congress have been building this fight since last Thursday... the inconsistencies in the statements coming from Washington are making me

This has NOT been a secret. It's been public knowledge since Oct. Along with the deal the Dubai company takes over the operation of two BRITISH ports and the Brits reviewed it and approved it and not one member of parliment objected. This company runs ports in Japan, Austrialia, Korea, South America, all over the world.

 

[debate_junkie]

This has NOT been a secret. It's been public knowledge since Oct. Along with the deal the Dubai company takes over the operation of two BRITISH ports and the Brits reviewed it and approved it and not one member of parliment objected. This company runs ports in Japan, Austrialia, Korea, South America, all over the world.

so if it's not been secret... was Scott Mclellan lying when he stated yesterday that our President knew nothing of the deal until a few days ago?

 

[Kandahar]

so if it's not been secret... was Scott Mclellan lying when he stated yesterday that our President knew nothing of the deal until a few days ago?

Probably not...Did *you* know about it until a few days ago?

 

[Synch]

Intersting side note: the committee that pushed through the deal was led by the Treasury Department. And who's in charge of the Treasury Department? Treasury Secretary John Snow:

Link

Treasury Secretary John Snow headed the rail firm CSX until early 2003. In late 2004, the company sold its foreign port operations to DP World for $1.15 billion.

WASHINGTON - While a state-owned Arab company sailed past regulators with its $6.8 billion deal to run six crucial U.S. ports, a private Israeli firm is getting the third degree over a much smaller venture, the Daily News has learned.
Dubai Ports World got approval from the Committee on Foreign Investment to buy the British firm that now runs the ports after an investigation that lasted less than 25 days.

That process is required by law whenever a foreign firm wants to buy a U.S. company that might affect national security. If that panel, with 12 agencies led by the Treasury Department, decides there is an issue that needs to be looked at, it goes on to a 45-day review.

That did not happen with DP World. It did with Check Point, on Feb. 13 - just days after DP World was cleared.

Check Point is an Israeli Internet security firm that wants to buy Maryland-based Sourcefire, a smaller network security software firm, for $800 million, a purchase already cleared by the Federal Trade Commission. It has a U.S. headquarters in California and branches and clients around the nation.

A Treasury spokesman declined to comment on the Check Point deal, but industry sources were at a loss to explain the different treatment

Rigorously reviewed. :doh

Just last month the Bush Administration appointed a new administrator of the Maritime Administration of the Transportation Department.. He was a former DP executive.

McClellan dismissed any connection between the deal and David Sanborn of Virginia, a former senior DP World executive whom the White House appointed last month to be the new administrator of the Maritime Administration of the Transportation Department. Sanborn worked as DP World's director of operations for Europe and Latin America.

"My understanding is that he has assured us that he was not involved in the negotiations to purchase this British company," McClellan added.

Link

I love coincidences.:mrgreen:

 

[debate_junkie]

Probably not...Did *you* know about it until a few days ago?

I knew about it last Thursday. According to McLellan, I knew about it before Bush did.

But apparently it's Congress's fault they didn't know about it because it's not secret. Just wanted to see if Stinger applied the same logic to the Pres as well, or didn't you catch on to that? :roll:

 

[Stinger]

Intersting side note: the committee that pushed through the deal was led by the Treasury Department. And who's in charge of the Treasury Department? Treasury Secretary John Snow:

So what?

Rigorously reviewed.

You have proof otherwise?

Just last month the Bush Administration appointed a new administrator of the Maritime Administration of the Transportation Department.. He was a former DP executive.

And?

 

[Kandahar]

I knew about it last Thursday. According to McLellan, I knew about it before Bush did.

Did he specify when the president found out about it, or did he just say "a few days ago"? If he didn't specify, you're just arguing semantics.

But apparently it's Congress's fault they didn't know about it because it's not secret. Just wanted to see if Stinger applied the same logic to the Pres as well, or didn't you catch on to that? :roll:

It's Congress' fault for not knowing about public information sooner, if they wanted to raise a big stink about it. Before they decided to have a bitchfest with this non-story, there was no reason the president needed to know about it, so he wasn't at "fault." Of the hundreds of thousands of trivial incidents that happen in this country, surely you can't expect the president to know about ALL of them or expect him to be able to predict which ones congressmen will use to grandstand.

 

[Stinger]

so if it's not been secret... was Scott Mclellan lying when he stated yesterday that our President knew nothing of the deal until a few days ago?

No..........

 

[Stinger]

I knew about it last Thursday. According to McLellan, I knew about it before Bush did.

But apparently it's Congress's fault they didn't know about it because it's not secret. Just wanted to see if Stinger applied the same logic to the Pres as well, or didn't you catch on to that? :roll:

He has no need to know, there is a process set up to handle it and by law it only reaches the president if there is a denial. Quite frankly I'd rather have the President spend his time on more important matters.

So if this company is good enough for the British, the Austrialian, the Japanese, the Koreans, the Spainish and our own Navy why aren't they good enough to run some terminals here?

 

[oldreliable67]

I have been quite surprised (though I probably shouldn't have been) at the uproar over this sale. This has been discussed in the financial media for several months, particularly the FT, beginning with the bidding for P&O. The business practices and the methods by which P&O and DPW operate relative to the security of ports and other germane issues were/have been disussed in the media at length on several occassions over the last 4 - 5 months.

Admittedly, one problem with the name and business recognition here in the US is that DPW and P&O are both non-US companies, hence most of the discussion was in the portion of the business media devoted to foreign companies. In the US, that means that if you don't read the Financial Times (FT), you might well miss it.

The political angle, though, has been no surprise at all. Here is a great opportunity for the Dems to get to the 'right' of Repubs on the Repubs strongest suit: security and safety. Most of the Dems that I've heard declaiming on this matter thus far clearly don't read the FT. Only one or two of them have a real clue as what is involved. No matter, as long as one can apply the rhetoric in a way that makes political points with those concerned about security, flog on.

But it isn't all the Dems fault. To be clear, the Bush admin once again has shown how inept it is in getting its message out to the public. To be more accurate, though, they were no doubt surprised by the outcry, and this is specifically where they have done such a poor job: reacting promptly and in an intelligent, informative manner to a sudden need to reach out and inform.

BTW, Stinger is correct: unless there is some compelling or unusual reason to do so, the President would never get involved in this type of decision. Frankly, once the kerfuffle got started, his staff should have done a better job of getting him up to speed immediately on the details - clearly, the press was going to be all over him about this.

 

[Stinger]

What this really shows is the ignorance of the media, the congress, the public and the qullabilty of each.

 

[NYStateofMind]

What this really shows is the ignorance of the media, the congress, the public and the qullabilty of each.

My concerns are still the same. The Port Authority of NY&NJ have concerns as well, as they filed suit against P&O today for failing to notify them of the sale.

...it charges that P&O, through its agreement with DP World, deprived the port authority of the "right to conduct a thorough review of its purchase," thereby violating certain "safeguards for the protection of persons and property" surrounding the facility....

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/24/port.security/index.html

Several people have pointed out valid, reasonable issues they have with this deal. I understand that some of you have no problem with the deal, you disagree. That's fine, but to say that anyone who disagrees is ignorant and gullible is not.

 

[danarhea]

My concerns are still the same. The Port Authority of NY&NJ have concerns as well, as they filed suit against P&O today for failing to notify them of the sale.


http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/24/port.security/index.html

Several people have pointed out valid, reasonable issues they have with this deal. I understand that some of you have no problem with the deal, you disagree. That's fine, but to say that anyone who disagrees is ignorant and gullible is not.

There is an update on this. A Federal judge just gave the third degree to the Bush administration, and say that, unless Bush can come up with a satisfactory information about why he broke rules and laws, he will issue an injunction blocking the sale. This development deserves its own thread, so I started one.