Understanding key facts and ideas,... is how we see politics

First off the term 'useful idiot' is something I learned about in a USSR political science class at university (and if memory serves recall the idea kinda being discussed in a religion class in high school).

https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/lenin-used-useful-idiots-to-spread-propaganda-to-the-west/

Now, let's examine Trump's actions (which shouldn't surprise anyone familiar with his business practices).

How Trump Leveraged Other People’s Money to Make Bankruptcy Work for Him

| ABI

www.abi.org

(As I see things) sadly we're witnessing the same old pattern of Trump's behavior (i.e. I'm a 'business man of action' approach AND I'm going to win at this deal) but with the crucial difference that he's now President,... so there will be global economic consequences. Personally, I don't see a Russian conspiracy per se at play. Instead, what we're seeing is a Russian 'schadenfreude' moment.

Definition of SCHADENFREUDE

enjoyment obtained from the troubles of others… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

...so how do you see politics???

 

[bongsaway]

First off the term 'useful idiot' is something I learned about in a USSR political science class at university (and if memory serves recall the idea kinda being discussed in a religion class in high school).

https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/lenin-used-useful-idiots-to-spread-propaganda-to-the-west/

Now, let's examine Trump's actions (which shouldn't surprise anyone familiar with his business practices).

How Trump Leveraged Other People’s Money to Make Bankruptcy Work for Him

| ABI

www.abi.org

(As I see things) sadly we're witnessing the same old pattern of Trump's behavior (i.e. I'm a 'business man of action' approach AND I'm going to win at this deal) but with the crucial difference that he's now President,... so there will be global economic consequences. Personally, I don't see a Russian conspiracy per se at play. Instead, what we're seeing is a Russian 'schadenfreude' moment.

Definition of SCHADENFREUDE

enjoyment obtained from the troubles of others… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

...so how do you see politics???

I see politics as something that should be used to help we the people, not take away from us as much as possible to enrich yourself. I suppose a lot of people look at it as an opportunity to get as much for themselves as possible.

 

[Germinator]

I see politics as something that should be used to help we the people, not take away from us as much as possible to enrich yourself. I suppose a lot of people look at it as an opportunity to get as much for themselves as possible.

Seems to me TRUMP really wants to govern like an ancient Roman emperor who had absolute power so he could indulge all his fantasies (like the Roman emperor Caligula),...

 

[multivita-man]

How we see politics often has little to do with facts. It has to do with values. It starts with values. Some people don't value education and verifying that what they're hearing is objective, neutrally accurate. A lot of people as it turns out.

 

[blur]

I have a half-assed theory about how the rise in anti-hero protagonists (The Sopranos, Dexter, Weeds, Breaking Bad, etc.) in TV in the 2000s lead to people feeling a similar kind of connection to Trump. Like the media literacy of a lot of Americans was not advanced enough to know how to properly digest these characters/stories, and it just lead them to mistaking any kind of imperfection/immoral behavior in an individual as just a sign of that person's "authenticity", while treating the people who are respectful, play by the rules, well-presenting, etc. with suspicion.

 

[Germinator]

How we see politics often has little to do with facts. It has to do with values. It starts with values. Some people don't value education and verifying that what they're hearing is objective, neutrally accurate. A lot of people as it turns out.

"The people voted for major government reform..."​

 

[Ikari]

He's a conartist, of course he did this. He's great with the Art of the Con.

 

[Germinator]

I have a half-assed theory about how the rise in anti-hero protagonists (The Sopranos, Dexter, Weeds, Breaking Bad, etc.) in TV in the 2000s lead to people feeling a similar kind of connection to Trump. Like the media literacy of a lot of Americans was not advanced enough to know how to properly digest these characters/stories, and it just lead them to mistaking any kind of imperfection/immoral behavior in an individual as just a sign of that person's "authenticity", while treating the people who are respectful, play by the rules, well-presenting, etc. with suspicion.

FWIW

...there were fascinating parallels between the actions and success of Trump and what was going on in Rome 2,000 years ago.

Caligula has gone down in history as one of the maddest and baddest of all Roman emperors, a name synonymous with the worst excesses of absolute power.

But there was more to the story of Caligula, Holland said. He is not quite the psychopath of popular imagination and we can see similarities between what is happening now and then.

What is known for sure about Caligula, Holland said, is that he had a great love of spectacle and dressing up; and he enjoyed hurting and humiliating people.

The young Caligula spent six years on the island of Capri, where he often directed and appeared in spectacular pornographic tableaux for his great uncle, the emperor Tiberius – a man it was said, who enjoyed having swimming boys nibble at his private parts.

When Tiberius died Caligua left for Rome where his excessive tastes “were translated on to the most public stage of all – the imperial capital.”

He did things differently to his forebears, the polar opposite of Tiberius’s and, before him, Augustus’ moral strategy. “Caligula had no interest in, no stake in the traditional values of Rome. He despised them. And he despised them because he saw them as entrenching the prestige and status of the aristocracy.”

Caligula wanted to rule as an autocrat and he was contemptuous of the pretence that the senate had any power at all.

“What he did was to trample the dignity of the senatorial elite into the dirt and what he discovered in doing that was that the mass of the Roman people really enjoyed it.”

Holland said there were parallels with what Trump has done to the Republican establishment.

“Trump has said and done things that are utterly shocking by the standards of traditional political morality, but far from making him unpopular with the masses there is a sense in which he has become the toast of the people.”

As well as trampling down the elite, Caligula was – like Trump – a conscious populist and sponsored chariot races and made a huge six-horse chariot for himself, which he would drive around Rome showing off.

“He did all the things that the people thought an emperor should do … they loved him for it.”

...The most famous story about Caligula, that he planned to make his horse his consul, is too often misinterpreted, said Holland.

It should not be seen as Caligula being unhinged – he was saying even the consulship, the highest office in Rome, was in his power. “It is a bitter, cruel joke about the reality of autocracy,” said Holland.

The knives were always out for Caligula but his downfall was entirely his fault, said Holland. “He just could not help himself.”

Caligula told a captain in the Praetorian guard that he sounded like a girl. And the Praetorian killed him.

Donald Trump has 'fascinating parallels' with Caligula, says historian

Tom Holland tells Hay festival the notorious Roman emperor was a conscious populist like the US presidential candidate

www.theguardian.com

Since TRUMP keeps pissing people off,... odds are there is going to be another attempt

Security incidents involving Donald Trump - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Germinator]

​

 

[Germinator]

 

[ataraxia]

​

That video was very insightful and enlightening, thanks.

 

[Gozaburo]

I have a half-assed theory about how the rise in anti-hero protagonists (The Sopranos, Dexter, Weeds, Breaking Bad, etc.) in TV in the 2000s lead to people feeling a similar kind of connection to Trump. Like the media literacy of a lot of Americans was not advanced enough to know how to properly digest these characters/stories, and it just lead them to mistaking any kind of imperfection/immoral behavior in an individual as just a sign of that person's "authenticity", while treating the people who are respectful, play by the rules, well-presenting, etc. with suspicion.

I think this is doing way too much intellectualizing for a subject that has a pretty basic answer:

Iraq/Afghanistan & 2008 recession were the last nails in the coffin of legitimacy for the regime in the long term. Antagonism against Trump has allowed the center to 're-onboard' some of the left, but I'm thinking this will only be temporary. Fundamentally no one has any respect or trust left for a sclerotic bureaucracy which doesn't respond to voters and (apparently) lacks the will or interest to substantively respond to attacks on its legitimacy by someone like Trump.

MAGA sees the current 'deep state' as an occupational force, not truly 'American' and so any blow to its credibility is necessarily a victory. The American empire being humiliated and its arch-rivals being propped up (Russia) are victories in this sense. What's perhaps most ironic is that if Trump ever truly was independent, he clearly isn't now - and hasn't been for almost 8 years - and so Trump in his own way has 're-onboarded' the right onto a performatively radical platform which is still fundamentally not much different from how Bush would govern.

 

[blur]

I think this is doing way too much intellectualizing for a subject that has a pretty basic answer:

Iraq/Afghanistan & 2008 recession were the last nails in the coffin of legitimacy for the regime in the long term. Antagonism against Trump has allowed the center to 're-onboard' some of the left, but I'm thinking this will only be temporary. Fundamentally no one has any respect or trust left for a sclerotic bureaucracy which doesn't respond to voters and (apparently) lacks the will or interest to substantively respond to attacks on its legitimacy by someone like Trump.

MAGA sees the current 'deep state' as an occupational force, not truly 'American' and so any blow to its credibility is necessarily a victory. The American empire being humiliated and its arch-rivals being propped up (Russia) are victories in this sense. What's perhaps most ironic is that if Trump ever truly was independent, he clearly isn't now - and hasn't been for almost 8 years - and so Trump in his own way has 're-onboarded' the right onto a performatively radical platform which is still fundamentally not much different from how Bush would govern.

I think you're speaking to something a bit different than I am.

I'm really just speaking to a portion of the public's general openness to Trump in 2016 as a personality, superficially speaking. I'm not suggesting this is a primary factor for the current state of things, there were multiple factors. There are a lot of red flags with Trump that would have tanked him in the past, but since 2016 have been reinterpreted as signs of authenticity. In 2004, Howard Dean was doing great, and all it took was him screaming weird once to tank him. The standards of who is allowed into public office and the expectations are of how that person is meant to publicly carry themselves has changed.

 

[Gozaburo]

I'm really just speaking to a portion of the public's general openness to Trump in 2016 as a personality, superficially speaking. I'm not suggesting this is a primary factor for the current state of things, there were multiple factors. There are a lot of red flags with Trump that would have tanked him in the past, but since 2016 have been reinterpreted as signs of authenticity. In 2004, Howard Dean was doing great, and all it took was him screaming weird once to tank him. The standards of who is allowed into public office and the expectations are of how that person is meant to publicly carry themselves has changed.

Ah, I misunderstood.

Even in that case though, I think my post is approximately correct on this subject too. The political 'establishment' is seen as kabuki theater by the MAGA masses. It's all a performative act by a bunch of political artifices who are beholden to special interests. Our institutions are captured by the same interests. This is (perhaps ironically) not super far from what groups like Occupy Wallstreet were claiming in the Obama years.

Trump has charisma, but the reason he's such a folk hero to the MAGA masses is because he routinely strikes at the legitimacy of the establishment. He mocks their rituals, ignores their customs, and ignores conventional logic. The left (in my opinion rightfully) points out that even if the establishment is captured, the answer isn't low IQ brute peasant populism. That's probably true, but Trumpism (and all it comes with) is now so thoroughly ingrained into the identity of the American right that things like anti intellectualism have stopped being useful tools for damaging the credibility of the current zeitgeist. Anti intellectualism has now become a defining feature which lends credibility to an individual, instead of it just being seen as a useful tool to tear down the assumptions of the current order.

 

[Germinator]

Trump has charisma, but the reason he's such a folk hero to the MAGA masses is because he routinely strikes at the legitimacy of the establishment. He mocks their rituals, ignores their customs, and ignores conventional logic.

Ever consider an appeal to MAGA zealots is TRUMP appears to be a business-man/politician who takes decisive action(s),... (for example) in order to pressure the other side whether its China, Canada, Mexico, etc., TRUMP boldly acts and announces a position (e.g. imposes tariffs)

https://www.wsj.com/economy/trade/trump-tariffs-liberation-day-plan-46b3d82b

The problem w/ TRUMP's bold action(s) is he never considers the possibility of "blow back" (or admits that his actions actually cause a failure,... when a failure happens TRUMP always posts the finger at someone else)

blow·back
/ˈblōˌbak/

the unintended adverse results of a political action or situation.

Definition of BLOWBACK

an unforeseen and unwanted effect, result, or set of repercussions… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Germinator]

 

[Germinator]

That video was very insightful and enlightening, thanks.

other stuff you might find insightful and enlightening,...

TRUMP is a driven individual who get off by being at the center of attention (doesn't matter the issue,...)

The Personality of Donald Trump

How a person leads is a function of his or her personality. In this post, we must consider the personality of the leading Republican candidate Donald Trump.

www.psychologytoday.com

WRT "tariff's" its a typical TRUMP pump and dump scheme,... if things work out, TRUMP will claim "I'm a stable genius" and knew things would work out,... if things go to $hit, TRUMP will find someone to blame (but somehow manage not to take a financial hit as history shows in his business dealings)

Now that TRUMP is POTUS, the unfortunate fact is his actions can indeed blow up the global economy (AND sad fact is when groups of people are pushed too far economically things potentially might turn into a protracted "hot" armed conflict)

PS FWIW a published paper by economists who have looked into TRUMPs prior small scale "tariff's" found a very high additional cost for the few jobs created,...


The Production Relocation and Price Effects of US Trade Policy: The Case of Washing Machines
(American Economic Review)

...new tariffs on washing machines in early 2018 were the first of a long string of subsequent trade policy actions enacted by the Trump administration, and therefore the full effect of these tariffs is more readily evident than the effect of those imposed later on, specifically on China.

...the period following the 2018 safeguard tariffs, US employment rose as existing producers claimed an additional 200 jobs and foreign producers added 1,600 jobs from new
US production.21 As shown, these job gains were accompanied by substantially higher consumer prices.

...the consumer cost per job for the 2018 safeguard tariffs amounts to roughly US$817,000 annually.

The Production Relocation and Price Effects of US Trade Policy: The Case of Washing Machines - American Economic Association

The Production Relocation and Price Effects of US Trade Policy: The Case of Washing Machines by Aaron Flaaen, Ali Hortaçsu and Felix Tintelnot. Published in volume 110, issue 7, pages 2103-27 of American Economic Review, July 2020, Abstract: We estimate the price effect of US import restrictions...

www.aeaweb.org

PS I'm not a stable genius BUT am guessing that TRUMPs motivation behind "Liberation Day" is his plan to protect US auto makers (which according financial news reports, is going to end up like TRUMPs casinos,...)

 

[Germinator]

Nationwide 'Hands Off!' protests erupt against Trump and Musk

Demonstrators gathered across the country on Saturday, many animated by differing issues, but united in opposition to the Trump administration with the single message: "Hands off!"

Organizers said more than 1,300 "Hands Off!" rallies of varying sizes took place on Saturday.

Since President Trump took office in January, various protests have taken place against his administration's plans and policies — from the mass firing of federal workers to immigration raids to the involvement of billionaire Elon Musk in the federal government.

Saturday's protests appeared to be the most widespread to date of Trump's second term.

https://www.npr.org/2025/04/05/nx-s1-5353388/hands-off-protests-washington-dc