Rhadamanthus
Member
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2004
- Messages
- 186
- Reaction score
- 2
- Location
- Alaska
- Gender
- Undisclosed
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- Undisclosed
craigfarmer said:There are no underfunded public schools in America. That is a fact.
craigfarmer said:I am totally wrong about this because I am ignorant. I probably went to some rich school and have never seen any of the horrors of this world.
heyjoeo said:Oh ya? I go to school in an underfunded intercity school. You should see our bathrooms. You should see how our school is too cheap to buy staples for teachers and how they have to bring their own materials from home in order to run class. Don't think you know everything without having any proof. There is no fact to that statement.
If you are truly inteterested in improving education, you need to open your mind, and be open to new information.
I'm a Newliberal, trying to improve the Democratic party from the inside.
If you name the specific school district, I will get documented government data from that district, or state to show you the problem is not lack of money, but rather where/how it is spent. There is not any public school in America where the money spent per pupil is not over $6,000. This is plenty to get a great education. The problems:
teacher salary and benefits--- yes many teachers are over-paid. Some are very underpaid. The end result is that the unions establish a minimum that keeps bad teachers in the profession. Think about it, if your teachers are so intelligent and skillful, why are they still teachers and not in another profession. The idea that there are great minds sacrificing more money because they love teaching is very rare. It is a fact that graduating students from Education programs are near the bottom of student acheivement test scores, yet they garner guaranteed money in a near communist system. Schools should be able to pay better teachers more, and poor teachers less. They could then take the difference and fix other problems like ... bathrooms.
Boards of education--- I'm sure your school has to answer to a district boss and B.O.E. Also, any major changes or improvements must be submitted for approval. The B.O.E., I'm sure works on the "fair" principle that "everything must be fair for everyone" which often winds up with everyone being equally miserable.
The problem is that Americans are the most brilliant people on earth,yet the school system shackles our creativity, and problem-solving abilities. The beauty of our nation is that millions of people seeking to improve their own lives ultimately will help others within a certain set of guidelines. This has happened in medicine, retail, athletics, etc.
The public school systems still work on a command and control structure of a few individuals planning for thousands of students. This was tried in the U.S.S.R. througout their whole society and they failed. It can't out-perform freedom. It has failed here also. Even "performing schools" are not helping their students reach their potential.
We need hope, optimism and freedom. A true market-place in education. So every parent regardless of income or any other trait, can choose their child's school next year. So if the bathrooms are horrible, parents could demand they be fixed or use their check/voucher at another public school, private school, home school, etc. There wouldn't be any need to complain to a "system". Imagine if the grocery store you go to is horrible. You would simply choose another. Eating is more important than education. We need to transform our education system more toward our food system. Millions of people working for their own reasons under a system that doesn't check in with a Board of Food.
Same money, better results.
Craig Farmer
making the word "liberal" safe again
newliberals.org
heyjoeo said:Hillsborough High School, District = Hillsborough in Tampa, FL
http://www.firn.edu/doe/eias/flmove/hillsbor.htm
According to Florida's website:
$6418 per student in that county.
This is more than enough to provide quality facilities, quality instruction, and meet parents demand. The problem is that every year the people in the "community" have a new idea of how a B.O.E. can adequately command thousands of students and teachers. The best system is the American way, freedom with rules.
Kenneth T. Cornelius said:The people who suffer from all this are also the ones who are being left completely out of the equation. The pupils most of all, the parents, and the taxpayers. The initiative for change will have to come from there.
Frankly, considering the nutty behavior I've observed at various citizens' group, this is not likely to help much. Anyone else got a better idea?
Most people are lazy and react only to what they can see and feel at the moment. Most people also like get what they consider to be their money's worth when they buy things. If you don't think so, then please explain the phenomenal growth of Walmarts, Home Depot, Costco, etc. Of course, the US consumer has often been accused of knowing the price of everything, but the value of nothing.
How does this apply to schools? Think about this for a moment. We are told that the Hillsboro School district in Tampa, FL spends $6,418 per student for a school year of 180 days.
Supposing, instead of going directly to the school district, this money was given to parents as a restricted educational grant. Every Monday they had to write a check to the school district in the amount of $178.27 for each of their children to give to the teacher.
Pretty soon most parents would realize whether they were getting value, and if not, whether the fault lay with themselves, their child(ren) or the school system. I think they would quickly take more interest in the situation and look to find a remedy.
Sadly, this will never happen, most parents will continue to abdicate their educational responsibilities to the NEA, UFT, and the ACLU, who, collectively will continue to determine what happens in the classroom. So, that means that year after year the public education system will continue to turn out a high percentage of sub-standard 'product' and year after year it will continue to be rewarded with more money than the year before.
I think the time has come for alternatives such as charter schools, vouchers, and other schemes that will 'break' the monopoly stranglehold and introduce competition into the equation.
Nothing else will 'fix' the public education system. The status quo stinks.
first off all since what is now public school funding would in my plan be transferred to private schools it would essentially be as simple as survivng in a public school as parents and students would have to pay little or eventually no money 2nd if they are that unmotivated do we really want them in contact with those who reallly want to learn lets not forget one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch and for those who want to make something of themselves but just not be able to cut it academicly support a substitute blue-collar job training program.
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