Ukraine's Uniform

[Michael McMahon]

Ukrainian soldiers might have very discerning visions because of how long they've been fighting the Russians. However for foreign volunteers I sense a friendly-fire risk with how similar the Russian and Ukrainian uniforms are. A further problem is that wearing a brightly coloured armband of their contry's flag could defy camouflage and give away their position to enemy snipers. Soldiers often have to make split-second decisions on whether to shoot when they see troops on the horizon. Bad weather conditions and fog could make it even more difficult to distinguish the uniforms. I know it's probably too late to mass produce a new uniform. However it wouldn't be too difficult to hand out clothing dye for new colours. Alternatively they could wear civilian clothing which conforms to a certain colour scheme. For example historical paramilitary regiments often wore the same coloured shirt like the Blueshirts in Ireland. Another function of the uniform is to simply conserve body heat. So a compromise could be keeping one element of the warm uniform like the trousers and then wearing a civilian upperbody garment or vice versa. The British royal guards for instance sometimes appear to have a striped red and black tracksuit pants.


Ukrainian Vs Russian Soldiers | Uniform, Armbands & Symbols
"The big teller between the Russian uniform and that of most Ukrainian troops is that the Russian uniform uses a different kind of camoflage called EMR... Generally to the eye (EMR) looks a lot greener whereas the Ukrainian camouflage looks a bit more dusty; a bit more of a yellow and olive tan colour. The Russian uniform has various shades of green and browns."


Russian uniform:


Ukrainian uniform:


"In March 1933, the ACA members began to wear blueshirts, the motivation being to distinguish the group from other organisations in the event of violence. The colour blue was chosen by Ernest Blythe, specifically because it was Saint Patrick’s blue and the philosophy behind the choice was to rekindle the Irish nationalistic spirit. Four months later, Eoin O’Duffy, the former Garda Commissioner, sacked by de Valera, took charge. He renamed the organisation, the National Guard and it became better known as the Blueshirts."
https://www.irishfamilydetective.ie/post/2019/08/06/who-what-were-the-irish-blueshirts

"For most regiments and corps No. 1 dress consists of a dark blue tunic and trousers (or skirt) with a coloured peaked cap. Different units are distinguished by the colouring of the cap, piping on the tunic and of the welts or stripes on the trousers, as well as badges."
https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/2195942


Born on the Fourth of July (7/9) Movie CLIP - A Painful Confession (1989)

 

[Michael McMahon]

A second problem with wearing similar uniforms to your enemy is impaired reflexes. If you've to delay firing on the enemy in order to get a better look at their uniforms then you'll have exposed yourself to the risk of enemy fire for that length of time. Warfare is kill or be killed and a soldier can't afford to wait. An additional problem with armbands is that they might not be visible to fellow troops if you're partially concealed by cover, lying prone or kneeling.

 

[Luce]

So, what, they should ditch camouflage and wear a nice bright yellow?

 

[Tangmo]

Looking at the photos anyway, the uniforms are distinctive to infantry Soldiers in particular but to combat arms Soldiers broadly speaking, ie, also artillery and armor.

While a civilian would say, hey, look at that Soldier shitting in the parking lot when a military person would know it's a Marine.

 

[EnigmaO01]

I don't think concern about uniform specifics is high on the priority list with Ukraine right now and it shouldn't be. And unless I'm missing something in this thread, battlefield camo fatigues aren't really a uniform anyway. There is what you wear in battle, and then there is your dress uniform. Ask the U.S. Marines, they even have more than one dress uniform if I remember right.

 

[Michael McMahon]

So, what, they should ditch camouflage and wear a nice bright yellow?

Blue is common to both the Ukrainian and Russian flags. Yellow might be suitable for a desert combat setting but perhaps not for the Ukrainian landscape. Perhaps orange could stand in for yellow. The Ukrainians wouldn't have to paint their entire uniform. Even orange patches and blobs would blend into their current camouflage. This would be more consistent than the armbands by being scattered throughout the body section of the uniform. Someone looking at their uniforms from behind might not see their armbands.

 

[Michael McMahon]

I don't think concern about uniform specifics is high on the priority list with Ukraine right now and it shouldn't be.

It wouldn't be time-consuming to repaint a section of the uniform. Even wall paint would suffice if the dye is hard to hand out. Stitching orangy-marzipan coloured cloths to the uniform is another option.

 

[KevinKohler]

You mean camo looks similar, regardless of country of origin?

This is why modern militaries are trained to operate in groups of 6-9, and follow orders. Go where you are told to go, so the brass knows where you are, and knows where NOT to shoot.

 

[Michael McMahon]

Looking at the photos anyway, the uniforms are distinctive to infantry Soldiers in particular but to combat arms Soldiers broadly speaking, ie, also artillery and armor.

Indeed. Although night combat could make it trickier to tell the difference between the uniforms. Russia is enlisting hundreds of thousands more troops which means Ukraine will have to do the same. New volunteers might be less accustomed to the colours in the uniforms. The conflict in Ukraine occurs over diverse landscapes. An urban setting could allow for a more grey colour in the uniform. If the Ukrainian uniform gets muddy in a rural setting then it might resemble the brown shades in the Russian uniform. A Ukrainian soldier hiding behind a leafy bush could also be mistaken for a Russian soldier.

 

[Michael McMahon]

Go where you are told to go, so the brass knows where you are, and knows where NOT to shoot.

The counter-offensive could produce messy formations due to the unpredictable shootouts. It wouldn't be like the trench warfare in WW1 where all your enemies are in front of you and your comrades behind you. Who knows if pincer movements will be used.

 

[Michael McMahon]

A problem with diverse armband colours is that everyone must be informed of the colour choice or people could get confused. There are also problems with improvised uniforms like wearing monochromatic green t-shirts instead of the fully camouflaged official combat jackets. The scene below illustates how hesitation caused by ambiguous uniforms could risk lives:

(9:58) "So 5 of us stayed, and black clad soldiers came towards us. We wore armbands as a means of identification; they wore white ones. One Ukrainian of the GRU opened fire. We called in artillery. Everyone was ordered to fall back. We did that under heavy fire. Constant fire. They had managed to report our position to the Russians. And they fired. I had been shelled before but these were airbusts. That was scary... I was hit by a small fragment in the leg. I got off easy... It had been chaotic and two guys were left behind... The second guy was alive but badly hurt. He died two hours later."

"The Russians never stopped firing" − Swedish volunteer fighter in Ukraine

 

[Michael McMahon]

Ukrainian soldiers might be able to identify facial and genetic differences between themselves and the Russians. However such physical nuances would be beyond the capacity of western recruits. Westerners might not even be able to distinguish between the Russian and Ukrainian languages.

 

[Michael McMahon]

While a civilian would say, hey, look at that Soldier shitting in the parking lot when a military person would know it's a Marine.

I can only imagine that you made a spelling mistake. Unless that's a common sight in America as some sort of military hazing ritual!

 

[Michael McMahon]

The GAA jerseys of Tipperary (mostly blue) and Clare (mostly yellow) both have the Ukrainian colours. They'd already be available for foreign volunteers!


Sports teams often switch to goalkeeper jerseys or the opposite away or home jerseys when they're playing against teams with a similar kit.

"A third jersey, alternative jersey, third kit, third sweater or alternative uniform is a jersey or uniform that a sports team can wear instead of its home outfit or its away outfit during games, often when the colors of two competing teams' other uniforms are too similar to contrast easily."


Alternatively you could just wear a large Ukrainian flag on your torso to clear up all confusion! Although it'd have to be made with non-luminous, dull colours to fit in with the environment.

"A standard-bearer, also known as a flag-bearer is a person (soldier or civilian) who bears an emblem known as a standard or military Regulation Colours, i.e. either a type of flag or an inflexible but mobile image, which is used (and often honoured) as a formal, visual symbol of a state, prince, military unit, etc. This can either be an occasional duty, often seen as an honour (especially on parade), or a permanent charge (also on the battlefield)." Wiki

 

[Michael McMahon]

Body ribbons would be a more thorough option compared to armbands.

 

[Michael McMahon]

There is what you wear in battle, and then there is your dress uniform. Ask the U.S. Marines, they even have more than one dress uniform if I remember right.

Wearing a formal uniform in battle might be uncomfortable for Ukrainians but it might do a better job of distinguishing friend from foe if they're short on alternative uniforms.



"Throwback uniforms, throwback jerseys, retro kits or heritage guernseys are sports uniforms styled to resemble the uniforms that a team wore in the past. One-time or limited-time retro uniforms are sometimes produced to be worn by teams in games, on special occasions such as anniversaries of significant events."

 

[Tangmo]

I can only imagine that you made a spelling mistake. Unless that's a common sight in America as some sort of military hazing ritual!

I'm joshing to make the point about military personnel recognizing enemy combat camos as different or even distinctive from their own.

It's not tough to do especially being among your own troops 24/7 to include basic combat training time and experiences.

The thread is anyway a weird thread but then again to each his own whatever. I mean, talking about wearing the dress uniform in battle if they're short on alternative uniforms! Even if it's occurred this is very strange stuff indeed.

 

[Michael McMahon]

There has already been friendly fire among Russian troops. Friendly-fire doesn't appear to be a big problem for Ukrainians though it's still best to pre-empt it.

'And now it appears the pressure of the situation has got to Russia's commanders, who mistakenly targeted their own troops during an intense firefight with their opponents.
A Ukrainian fighter called Victor claimed a Russian officer gave an artillery unit the wrong coordinates for a strike.
He wrote: "In the Kherson Region, one of the Rashist commanders gave the wrong coordinates to the artillery.
"Instead of the positions of the Armed Forces, they destroyed their special unit."'
https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...t-special-force-unit-putin-ukraine-war-latest

 

[Michael McMahon]

It's not tough to do especially being among your own troops 24/7 to include basic combat training time and experiences.

True but there are reports of false flag attacks from Russia that was mentioned at 2:11 in the uniform video within the OP. Also mentioned at 2:32 in the same video were militias on each side. It was claimed that some Russian militias are wearing parts of the older Ukrainian uniforms. The Ukrainian Territorial Defence Forces apparently don't wear a standard uniform (3:12). Most people have lots of clothes in their wardrobe and so it'd be very easy for people to pick out matching colours. Troops that are redeployed to different battlefronts might get confused by the complexity of the various uniforms.

 

[Rich2018]

Blue is common to both the Ukrainian and Russian flags. Yellow might be suitable for a desert combat setting but perhaps not for the Ukrainian landscape. Perhaps orange could stand in for yellow. The Ukrainians wouldn't have to paint their entire uniform. Even orange patches and blobs would blend into their current camouflage. This would be more consistent than the armbands by being scattered throughout the body section of the uniform. Someone looking at their uniforms from behind might not see their armbands.

You seem to think that military uniform is the same as national football strips
Whilst national football (soccer) teams generally wear a mix of colors on the national flag, there is no requirement for soldiers to do so

It's beyond stupid to think there should be any correlation.

 

[Michael McMahon]

You seem to think that military uniform is the same as national football strips
Whilst national football (soccer) teams generally wear a mix of colors on the national flag, there is no requirement for soldiers to do so

That's true. Although if communications break down it might be helpful if the uniform's colours resemble some national symbols. For example troops in remote areas might be able to identify new uniforms as belonging to their side if it relates to cultural symbolism. See how much more contrast there'd be with a Russian uniform if the Ukrainians added in some dark orange spots:

 

[VanceMack]

An even better way to distinguish between the two would be if the army of the invading country would just take their asses home.

 

[Rich2018]

That's true. Although if communications break down it might be helpful if the uniform's colours resemble some national symbols. For example troops in remote areas might be able to identify new uniforms as belonging to their side if it relates to cultural symbolism. See how much more contrast there'd be with a Russian uniform if the Ukrainians added in some dark orange spots:

That's actually the original point in uniforms - to distinguish friend from foe

But why would uniforms have to resemble a country's flag or national symbolism ?
Answer is: they don't

It is enough that they resemble each other and are distinguishable from your enemy (and to an extent your allies).
Of course in the modern era, uniforms' other purpose is to conceal the wearer, whereas in earlier times, it was meant to make them stand out.

 

[Fledermaus]

Ukrainian soldiers might be able to identify facial and genetic differences between themselves and the Russians. However such physical nuances would be beyond the capacity of western recruits. Westerners might not even be able to distinguish between the Russian and Ukrainian languages.

????????

 

[Michael McMahon]

????????

You can tell Irish and English people apart by accent but not by skin colour.

"While most of Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire and then the Soviet Union, western and south-western Ukraine was part of Poland or Romania prior to 1945, and earlier still, part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire." Rusi