[W:#23,579]Ukraine War Thread

[JANFU]

The United States is considering "non-stop" ways to send weapons to Ukraine at an "unprecedented" rate. The process of authorizing the transport of equipment from US military inventories to other countries, which took weeks or months in the past, can currently take only about 48-72 hours, a senior defense official said, CNN reports.

Since the beginning of the Russian invasion, the Biden administration has authorized $ 2.3 billion in shipments of weapons and military equipment to Ukraine from US stocks, as well as $ 300 million as part of the US Security Assistance Initiative. Ukraine (USAI), which means that weapons are purchased from manufacturers.

There is also a risk of the weapons being sent in the long term, below is a discussion:

Logistics, from manufacture, repair, ship, deploy, the West wins hands down on that. Thing is to get it moving.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Truthfully putin wanted ukraine as a puppet state, but given the west went to extreme lengths to arm it, he likely will annex all of it into russia by the end and start eliminating all ukrainian nationalism

But you wouldn't call it autocracy.

 

[JANFU]

 

[JANFU]

John Bolton is a western liberal.

He believes western liberalism should be spread by force and the tools of western liberalism such as NATO should be expanded.

Bolton believes in a unipolar world in which the liberal west is not only the dominant power but the only true power.


Not relevant. The focus of the US occupation was fundamentally flawed because we built a state we liked (modeled on our principles) and not a state that had what it takes to survive the onslaught.

In effect you prefer taliban rule to nominally-secular dictator.

That is the only real choice in Afghanistan.



And you don’t live in fear because if members of those gangs murdered the local students they would be arrested and prosecuted. Our liberal state still functions.

That is not the case in Mexico itself, where many live under de facto rule of criminal gangs while their glorious liberal state is either too weak or corrupt to protect them.

Pathetic.

I give major kudos to the President of El Salvador who is rounding up the gangs en masse. And the western liberals are naturally crying about him asserting control over the cartels.

Take tour country back Mr President!!! Liberalism means nothing but gang rule for El Salvador!

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The choice being fascism or liberalism that won’t protect you from ISIS or the Taliban or criminal cartels?

Fascism. Not my first choice but no question under those circumstances.

Where do you stand with El Salvador?

The authoritarian President or rule by the liberals aka de facto drug cartel rule?

How about taking this discussion to the SA sub forum
Thanks.
Now back to the OP

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Logistics, from manufacture, repair, ship, deploy, the West wins hands down on that. Thing is to get it moving.

Chuck Noland : We live and we die by time, and we must not commit the sin of turning our back on time.

 

[Juin]

What did Russia win? A city turned into rubble.

Same thing. Ukraine has also vowed not to give up any territory. What that means is, if Ukraine's fortunes improve, and it assaults and regains Mariupol from Russia it will be winning the same rubble. Both are committed to Mariupol- as rubble or not.

 

[Juin]

That must mean the Ukrainian assault troops are developing cold feet. I am surprised they didnt scream that mines are war crimes. If I am not mistaken, dealing with mines is par for the course. And the Ukrainian military will be remiss if it has not been using mines to bolster their defense lines

 

[JANFU]

 

[Rogue Valley]

But you wouldn't call it autocracy.

Kleptocracy. They steal everythng. From Ukrainian land to the TV's of Ukrainian civilians they have shot in the head.

 

[JANFU]

Same thing. Ukraine has also vowed not to give up any territory. What that means is, if Ukraine's fortunes improve, and it assaults and regains Mariupol from Russia it will be winning the same rubble. Both are committed to Mariupol- as rubble or not.

A war of attrition =Russia loses in that battle. My opinion, the only acceptable end to this war from the Ukrainian perspective, are prewar borders
If any NATO countries were hesitant about sending enough armor/artillery etc, well they will no longer be.

 

[Quag]

I'm not disagreeing with you. Just saying the Czechs have a special empathy for the Ukrainians as they have been there done that. I guess nothing was done in fear of a war with the Soviet Union? I also remember Johnson refused to hit the Soviet SAM sites in North Vietnam also in fear of a war with the Soviets. Meanwhile shot down US pilots were either dying or living years in the Hanoi Hilton beaten on an almost daily basis.

Most of Eastern Europe has special empathy for Ukraine right now. The soviet Union was very brutal

 

[Centrist]

Ukraine:



Russia:

 

[Rogue Valley]

Why doesn't Biden just order a nonstop 24/7 weapons shipping program. Like the Berlin Airlift of 1948-49.

Berlin should be ashamed. The Czech's have sent more weapons to Ukraine than economic behemouth Germany. wtf?

 

[Schrott]

Actually Russian logistics require a rail head within 90 miles (or KM?) from the front. Too few trucks to feed munitions and arms further.

Yes.

I am the son of a German soldier, who participated in Babarossa and was part of all the mayor campaigns. I one day I asked him about the huge callous he had on his feet, he was a cavalarist and he said Ukraine.
This is the largest European country, by far. There is a shit load of just country, fields after fields after fields, here a river, there a stream, irrigation ditches, a little forest. Go use Google earth and take a look at the East Ukraine were the fighting is, 100 km is nothing, mayor roads just between villages and small towns, no railway. The few railway links going into the Donbas have been cut since the 8 years of fighting. Its trucks for the Russians, trucks, trucks, trucks, nothing else.
Me thinks, Russia will make some rather good gains for some days, till it reaches the limits of its logistics, its like a rubber band, you stretch it to far it snaps.
If the Ukraine is smart it does a hart fighting fallback, till the Russian rubber band snaps, like Kiev.
Its not WWI or WWII were millions of soldiers walked to battle, were supplies came by a 30mph truck or a 5 mph horse cart. This is a 80,000 soldier tech army on steel horses, which need a huge amount of Diesel and even more ammo.
Its not the rifle with a 6 shot mag, its auto weapons, its not guns that shoot once every minute, its guns that shoot 10 times a minute, or even 100 times.

The logistic tonnage load of today is 20 times of WWII. Even the US, with its first class logistics had to stop during the Iraq war, because its logistics could not keep up

 

[Chomsky]

Ambiguous, but interesting:

Pentagon: Ukraine Has Received Additional Aircraft

Without providing specifics, Pentagon Spokesman John Kirby says Ukrainian forces have been provided with additional aircraft and aircraft parts to be able to "increase their fleet size...and get more aircraft in the air."

www.c-span.org

 

[JANFU]

Most of Eastern Europe has special empathy for Ukraine right now. The soviet Union was very brutal

Europe- Centuries of war, now back in full force. Past time for large numbers of tanks, armor, MLRS, SAM's, artillery (mobile/towed) and a hell of a lot of ammo
Will those few against sending this, change and start sending/producing more arms for Ukraine.
The West is spending money, Ukrainians are paying for it in blood.
A huge debt owed to Ukraine.

 

[JANFU]

Let us not forget Ukraine's land based Navy

 

[JANFU]

Hopefully a rushed offensive & as well planned as the invasions, well that works for me

The Russians have not fully set conditions for a large-scale offensive operation. The Russians have not had enough time to reconstitute forces withdrawn from the Battle of Kyiv and ready them properly for a new offensive in the east. The Russians appear to be still building logistics and command-and-control capabilities even as they start the next round of major fighting. The tempo of Russian operations continues to suggest that President Vladimir Putin is demanding a hasty offensive to achieve his stated objectives, possibly by “Victory Day” on May 9. The haste and partial preparation of the Russian attack will likely undermine its effectiveness and may compromise its success.

Institute for the Study of War

Russian and Ukrainian officials announced that the next phase of the Russian invasion of Ukraine began on April 19. Russian forces conducted intensive artillery and air bombardments of many areas along the front line from around Izyum to Mykolaiv but

www.understandingwar.org

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

I would rather have a dictator in charge than live in a country where different factions battle it out like they did in Iraq.

I would rather have had the US build a state that can defend itself than some liberal do-gooder dream that crumbles as soon as the Taliban arrives.

I would rather have a fascist that is stronger than the criminal gangs that make everyone live in fear of them like much of Mexico or Central America.

The biggest thing democracy did for Russia was let the gangsters piece out the old empire for their own ends. I’d take a Czar over that, no question.

Then I will be there to fight you at every turn. You are either not an American or do not deserve to be one.

 

[craig]

I would rather have a dictator in charge than live in a country where different factions battle it out like they did in Iraq.

I would rather have had the US build a state that can defend itself than some liberal do-gooder dream that crumbles as soon as the Taliban arrives.

I would rather have a fascist that is stronger than the criminal gangs that make everyone live in fear of them like much of Mexico or Central America.

The biggest thing democracy did for Russia was let the gangsters piece out the old empire for their own ends. I’d take a Czar over that, no question.

That is why Democracies must be constantly on guard against extremism, entrenched wealth, aristocracy, and demagogues.

 

[JANFU]

Trouble in Russia's south??

Kazakhstan slowly backing away from its Russian ally

Russia’s ally Kazakhstan is struggling to balance close ties with Moscow and its own national interests as the war in Ukraine creates destabilizing ripple effects across Central Asia. Kazakh author…

asiatimes.com

 

[Joby]

Then I will be there to fight you at every turn. You are either not an American or do not deserve to be one.

Oh yes, in the grand American tradition of creating democracies and then running away as they burn!

I sure hope your morals feel good to the dead Afghans we left behind!

Perhaps that spirit rolled out the red carpet for the advance of ISIS by the pathetic American-created liberal government in Iraq.

Or maybe the parents who've been killed investigating the pathetic and weak liberal Mexican state helping bury their children on behalf of a (stronger) drug cartel can rest in peace knowing they were "free"

LOL!

 

[JANFU]

US confirms Ukraine has received Migs & spares.

 

[JANFU]

Oh

Pls take it some where else.
Anywhere but here
Thank you.

 

[JANFU]

Not good news