Ukraine Parliament pleading for more help; NATO fiddles, Ukraine Burns

[maxparrish]

The death of the award-winning documentary filmmaker Brent Renaud, shot and killed in Irpin (his partner taken to a hospital) has galavanized the Ukrainian parliament to plead again for NATO to provide greater assistance and air cover... so far Biden, NATO, and the EU remain silent to these pleas.

Since the story broke on the request for air cover, or planes, more than a week ago I have noted the following:

Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, General Keene (Ret), General Kellog (Ret), Admiral Stavridis (former head of Nato), and General McMaster have generally, and specifically made the following points:

- Putin can't win the city in any conventional sense (urban warfare) so he has and will continue to increase aerial bombardments, and the "Jewel of the Eastern World" and "Garden City" Kiev, will be reduced to rubble and ash. A city of 3 million, now reduced to 1.5 to 2 million, is destined to mass killing and destruction...a landscape of Stalingrad or Hiroshima, without more help. It will play out over weeks, perhaps months, but it will happen if NATO and Biden's do not find the courage to respond.​

​

- The Ukrainian military with more assistance from the west could actually on its own expel Russian forces from Ukraine. There are two paths, either continue the self-defeating limitations on arms and see Ukraine bleed and bleed in a stalemate or break the stalemate by seriously providing Ukraine with larger weapons and MIGs and SUs.​

​

- The west, apparently, is still making a distinction between defensive and offensive arms. If so, it would partially explain why unmanned combat vehicles, unmanned combat drones, cruise missiles, and armor has not been supplied. At this point THIS DISTINCITION is jaw dropping stupid, and a gift to Puin in a full-scale war.​

​

- If we don't want to get dragged into a protracted war in Europe, the BEST thing is now lavishly supply Ukraine with the best and most powerful arms. Had we done so before the invasion, either Russia would have been thrown out by now or Russia would never dared invade. There is still a whole lot of wishful thinking in the Biden administration...very foolish and self-defeating.​

- Larger surface to air missile batteries are essential. The S-300 and/or the French medium systems are available and should have been shipped.​

​

- AWACs in NATO airspace could provide early warning to Ukrainian pilots and bases, especially with those gifted to Ukraine (they have NATO frequency radios).​

​

- Admiral Stavridis has urged getting all those MIG fighters to Lviv and build air defenses out from there.​

​

- General Kellog said "we keep coming up with reasons not to do something rather than to do something".​

​

- Gen Keene said Putin is putting fear in us, because we show intimidation it invites more intimidation and coercion.​

The bitter fruits of Biden, NATO, and the wests failure to grasp these essential points is now being served. The Russians, seeing our reaction have done the following:

1) Bombed a large training base next to Poland, killing 35 (and likely wounding 90 more). That bold move is intended to preclude its use in training Ukrainians on better western arms systems.​

​

2) Bombed two Western airfields that could have been used to receive and base the gifted NATO-Polish Migs.​

​

3) Announced that: "Convoys of foreign weapons, which are thoughtlessly supplied to Ukraine, will be legitimate targets for the Russian Armed Forces."​

Let us hope Churchill was right when he said: "AMERICANS WILL ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING AFTER EXHAUSTING THE ALTERNATIVES." Those alternatives have been exhausted. Time to act NOW.

 

[Phys251]

The death of the award-winning documentary filmmaker Brent Renaud, shot and killed in Irpin (his partner taken to a hospital) has galavanized the Ukrainian parliament to plead again for NATO to provide greater assistance and air cover... so far Biden, NATO, and the EU remain silent to these pleas.

Since the story broke on the request for air cover, or planes, more than a week ago I have noted the following:

Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, General Keene (Ret), General Kellog (Ret), Admiral Stavridis (former head of Nato), and General McMaster have generally, and specifically made the following points:

- Putin can't win the city in any conventional sense (urban warfare) so he has and will continue to increase aerial bombardments, and the "Jewel of the Eastern World" and "Garden City" Kiev, will be reduced to rubble and ash. A city of 3 million, now reduced to 1.5 to 2 million, is destined to mass killing and destruction...a landscape of Stalingrad or Hiroshima, without more help. It will play out over weeks, perhaps months, but it will happen if NATO and Biden's do not find the courage to respond.​

​

- The Ukrainian military with more assistance from the west could actually on its own expel Russian forces from Ukraine. There are two paths, either continue the self-defeating limitations on arms and see Ukraine bleed and bleed in a stalemate or break the stalemate by seriously providing Ukraine with larger weapons and MIGs and SUs.​

​

- The west, apparently, is still making a distinction between defensive and offensive arms. If so, it would partially explain why unmanned combat vehicles, unmanned combat drones, cruise missiles, and armor has not been supplied. At this point THIS DISTINCITION is jaw dropping stupid, and a gift to Puin in a full-scale war.​

​

- If we don't want to get dragged into a protracted war in Europe, the BEST thing is now lavishly supply Ukraine with the best and most powerful arms. Had we done so before the invasion, either Russia would have been thrown out by now or Russia would never dared invade. There is still a whole lot of wishful thinking in the Biden administration...very foolish and self-defeating.​

- Larger surface to air missile batteries are essential. The S-300 and/or the French medium systems are available and should have been shipped.​

​

- AWACs in NATO airspace could provide early warning to Ukrainian pilots and bases, especially with those gifted to Ukraine (they have NATO frequency radios).​

​

- Admiral Stavridis has urged getting all those MIG fighters to Lviv and build air defenses out from there.​

​

- General Kellog said "we keep coming up with reasons not to do something rather than to do something".​

​

- Gen Keene said Putin is putting fear in us, because we show intimidation it invites more intimidation and coercion.​

The bitter fruits of Biden, NATO, and the wests failure to grasp these essential points is now being served. The Russians, seeing our reaction have done the following:

1) Bombed a large training base next to Poland, killing 35 (and likely wounding 90 more). That bold move is intended to preclude its use in training Ukrainians on better western arms systems.​

​

2) Bombed two Western airfields that could have been used to receive and base the gifted NATO-Polish Migs.​

​

3) Announced that: "Convoys of foreign weapons, which are thoughtlessly supplied to Ukraine, will be legitimate targets for the Russian Armed Forces."​

Let us hope Churchill was right when he said: "AMERICANS WILL ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING AFTER EXHAUSTING THE ALTERNATIVES." Those alternatives have been exhausted. Time to act NOW.

Short of getting into a hot war with Russia, what more can we do?

 

[Threegoofs]

This thread is hilarious coming from a Trumper.

 

[TheParser]

We have to remember that the "Biden administration" is run by a group of woke-influenced ladies and gentlemen.

President Biden simply reads what his "advisers" have put on the teleprompter.

President Biden, according to many Washington insiders, has never been especially gifted with the ability to make good decisions, and now he is even less able to because of the ravages of age and cognitive challenges (perhaps due in part to his past brain operations).

We are all hoping against hope that the good people in the Russian government will act to stop this sickening rape of Ukraine and the indescribable suffering of the millions of refugees leaving their country.

 

[maxparrish]

Short of getting into a hot war with Russia, what more can we do?

We could have, and still can, provide Ukraine with replenishment MIGS (which were likely hit in those western air strikes), UCAV's, much larger drones, surplus Warsaw pact artillery, French medium range AA missile batteries, and if not better tanks (German or French or British) at least armed combat vehicles (Stryker with 105mm gun, Bradly's, or Centurions (It) with 120mm guns).

Dicking around with man carried weapons when big stuff is desperately needed is a no win, prolonged defeat (or stalemate) strategy.

None of this would get us into a hot war, any more than it got the US or Russia in a hot war over numerous proxy wars since 1945. No boots on the ground and no NATO pilots in Ukrainian airspace is a given...everything else has been doable.

 

[Roadvirus]

We have to remember that the "Biden administration" is run by a group of woke-influenced ladies and gentlemen.

President Biden simply reads what his "advisers" have put on the teleprompter.

President Biden, according to many Washington insiders, has never been especially gifted with the ability to make good decisions, and now he is even less able to because of the ravages of age and cognitive challenges (perhaps due in part to his past brain operations).

We are all hoping against hope that the good people in the Russian government will act to stop this sickening rape of Ukraine and the indescribable suffering of the millions of refugees leaving their country.

Bozo Biden and his people have found a new favorite catchphrase: "Don't want to escalate things".

Uh...TOO LATE!! Putzin is escalating things. Look at Mariupol! It's a fracking wasteland now! Look at this article...before and after pics:

Ukraine-Russia war: Satellite images reveal fires, severe damage to residential buildings in Mariupol

Satellite images taken on Saturday reveal destruction and damage to residential buildings, as well as a hospital, in Mariupol, Ukraine, as Russia's ongoing war with the country continues.

www.foxnews.com

 

[maxparrish]

Bozo Biden and his people have found a new favorite catchphrase: "Don't want to escalate things".

Uh...TOO LATE!! Putzin is escalating things. Look at Mariupol! It's a fracking wasteland now! Look at this article...before and after pics:

Ukraine-Russia war: Satellite images reveal fires, severe damage to residential buildings in Mariupol

Satellite images taken on Saturday reveal destruction and damage to residential buildings, as well as a hospital, in Mariupol, Ukraine, as Russia's ongoing war with the country continues.

www.foxnews.com

Yep...that is what awaits Kiev if Biden doesn't quit wiping his forhead and finding reasons not to do something.

Shameful...just Shameful.

 

[Threegoofs]

We could have, and still can, provide Ukraine with replenishment MIGS (which were likely hit in those western air strikes), UCAV's, much larger drones, surplus Warsaw pact artillery, French medium range AA missile batteries, and if not better tanks (German or French or British) at least armed combat vehicles (Stryker with 105mm gun, Bradly's, or Centurions (It) with 120mm guns).

Dicking around with man carried weapons when big stuff is desperately needed is a no win, prolonged defeat (or stalemate) strategy.

None of this would get us into a hot war, any more than it got the US or Russia in a hot war over numerous proxy wars since 1945. No boots on the ground and no NATO pilots in Ukrainian airspace is a given...everything else has been doable.

So the entire world is not doing these things because they just don’t understand diplomacy as well as you do?

 

[TheParser]

Look at Mariupol! It's a fracking wasteland now!

It is an international disgrace that the "civilized" world is allowing the heartless brute in the Kremlin to cause so much human suffering in Europe.

The worst refugee problem since World War II.

Whole cities in Ukraine being devastated.

That little runt in the Kremlin should not be allowed to cause such senseless misery. And not to mention the senseless deaths of both Ukrainians and Russians.

I agree that if we had a more insightful and lucid President in the Oval Office, s/he would know how to scare the blank out of that nut case in the Kremlin.

 

[maxparrish]

So the entire world is not doing these things because they just don’t understand diplomacy as well as you do?

View attachment 67379927

No, I just understand the enemy better than Biden and his caretakers - as well as the pinheads creating out of thin air things that can't be done.

I'm in good company: McMaster, Keene, Straridis, Kellog, Vindman...

You if you want to stick with Biden as your go to source of intelligence, feel free.

 

[maxparrish]

It is an international disgrace that the "civilized" world is allowing the heartless brute in the Kremlin to cause so much human suffering in Europe.

The worst refugee problem since World War II.

Whole cities in Ukraine being devastated.

That little runt in the Kremlin should not be allowed to cause such senseless misery. And not to mention the senseless deaths of both Ukrainians and Russians.

I agree that if we had a more insightful and lucid President in the Oval Office, s/he would know how to scare the blank out of that nut case in the Kremlin.

Yes, now 2.7 million refugees, so many that the bordering states have no way to shelter more.

 

[Threegoofs]

No, I just understand the enemy better than Biden and his caretakers - as well as the pinheads creating out of thin air things that can't be done.

I'm in good company: McMaster, Keene, Straridis, Kellog, Vindman...

You if you want to stick with Biden as your go to source of intelligence, feel free.

You know Biden isn’t in charge of the entire world, right?

 

[maxparrish]

You know Biden isn’t in charge of the entire world, right?

You know he is the guy that killed the plane deal, right? You know that the US is the most powerful and influential member of NATO, right?

 

[Threegoofs]

You know he is the guy that killed the plane deal, right? You know that the US is the most powerful and influential member of NATO, right?

The plane deal was a bad idea. It would lead to expanded war.

The US is influential, but, again, it’s part of a coalition.

 

[Integrityrespec]

The death of the award-winning documentary filmmaker Brent Renaud, shot and killed in Irpin (his partner taken to a hospital) has galavanized the Ukrainian parliament to plead again for NATO to provide greater assistance and air cover... so far Biden, NATO, and the EU remain silent to these pleas.

Since the story broke on the request for air cover, or planes, more than a week ago I have noted the following:

Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, General Keene (Ret), General Kellog (Ret), Admiral Stavridis (former head of Nato), and General McMaster have generally, and specifically made the following points:

- Putin can't win the city in any conventional sense (urban warfare) so he has and will continue to increase aerial bombardments, and the "Jewel of the Eastern World" and "Garden City" Kiev, will be reduced to rubble and ash. A city of 3 million, now reduced to 1.5 to 2 million, is destined to mass killing and destruction...a landscape of Stalingrad or Hiroshima, without more help. It will play out over weeks, perhaps months, but it will happen if NATO and Biden's do not find the courage to respond.​

​

- The Ukrainian military with more assistance from the west could actually on its own expel Russian forces from Ukraine. There are two paths, either continue the self-defeating limitations on arms and see Ukraine bleed and bleed in a stalemate or break the stalemate by seriously providing Ukraine with larger weapons and MIGs and SUs.​

​

- The west, apparently, is still making a distinction between defensive and offensive arms. If so, it would partially explain why unmanned combat vehicles, unmanned combat drones, cruise missiles, and armor has not been supplied. At this point THIS DISTINCITION is jaw dropping stupid, and a gift to Puin in a full-scale war.​

​

- If we don't want to get dragged into a protracted war in Europe, the BEST thing is now lavishly supply Ukraine with the best and most powerful arms. Had we done so before the invasion, either Russia would have been thrown out by now or Russia would never dared invade. There is still a whole lot of wishful thinking in the Biden administration...very foolish and self-defeating.​

- Larger surface to air missile batteries are essential. The S-300 and/or the French medium systems are available and should have been shipped.​

​

- AWACs in NATO airspace could provide early warning to Ukrainian pilots and bases, especially with those gifted to Ukraine (they have NATO frequency radios).​

​

- Admiral Stavridis has urged getting all those MIG fighters to Lviv and build air defenses out from there.​

​

- General Kellog said "we keep coming up with reasons not to do something rather than to do something".​

​

- Gen Keene said Putin is putting fear in us, because we show intimidation it invites more intimidation and coercion.​

The bitter fruits of Biden, NATO, and the wests failure to grasp these essential points is now being served. The Russians, seeing our reaction have done the following:

1) Bombed a large training base next to Poland, killing 35 (and likely wounding 90 more). That bold move is intended to preclude its use in training Ukrainians on better western arms systems.​

​

2) Bombed two Western airfields that could have been used to receive and base the gifted NATO-Polish Migs.​

​

3) Announced that: "Convoys of foreign weapons, which are thoughtlessly supplied to Ukraine, will be legitimate targets for the Russian Armed Forces."​

Let us hope Churchill was right when he said: "AMERICANS WILL ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING AFTER EXHAUSTING THE ALTERNATIVES." Those alternatives have been exhausted. Time to act NOW.

The NATO coalition under the leadership of President Joe Biden is going to let Ukraine be reduced to rubble and the dead bodies of women and children and then Biden will trot out and say, "We did everything we could to help Ukraine. No Questions, I'll get in trouble if I take questions."
I fear what Joe will fail to do if Putin escalates further and attacks a NATO nation.

 

[noonereal]

The death of the award-winning documentary filmmaker Brent Renaud, shot and killed in Irpin (his partner taken to a hospital) has galavanized the Ukrainian parliament to plead again for NATO to provide greater assistance and air cover... so far Biden, NATO, and the EU remain silent to these pleas.

Since the story broke on the request for air cover, or planes, more than a week ago I have noted the following:

Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, General Keene (Ret), General Kellog (Ret), Admiral Stavridis (former head of Nato), and General McMaster have generally, and specifically made the following points:

- Putin can't win the city in any conventional sense (urban warfare) so he has and will continue to increase aerial bombardments, and the "Jewel of the Eastern World" and "Garden City" Kiev, will be reduced to rubble and ash. A city of 3 million, now reduced to 1.5 to 2 million, is destined to mass killing and destruction...a landscape of Stalingrad or Hiroshima, without more help. It will play out over weeks, perhaps months, but it will happen if NATO and Biden's do not find the courage to respond.​

​

- The Ukrainian military with more assistance from the west could actually on its own expel Russian forces from Ukraine. There are two paths, either continue the self-defeating limitations on arms and see Ukraine bleed and bleed in a stalemate or break the stalemate by seriously providing Ukraine with larger weapons and MIGs and SUs.​

​

- The west, apparently, is still making a distinction between defensive and offensive arms. If so, it would partially explain why unmanned combat vehicles, unmanned combat drones, cruise missiles, and armor has not been supplied. At this point THIS DISTINCITION is jaw dropping stupid, and a gift to Puin in a full-scale war.​

​

- If we don't want to get dragged into a protracted war in Europe, the BEST thing is now lavishly supply Ukraine with the best and most powerful arms. Had we done so before the invasion, either Russia would have been thrown out by now or Russia would never dared invade. There is still a whole lot of wishful thinking in the Biden administration...very foolish and self-defeating.​

- Larger surface to air missile batteries are essential. The S-300 and/or the French medium systems are available and should have been shipped.​

​

- AWACs in NATO airspace could provide early warning to Ukrainian pilots and bases, especially with those gifted to Ukraine (they have NATO frequency radios).​

​

- Admiral Stavridis has urged getting all those MIG fighters to Lviv and build air defenses out from there.​

​

- General Kellog said "we keep coming up with reasons not to do something rather than to do something".​

​

- Gen Keene said Putin is putting fear in us, because we show intimidation it invites more intimidation and coercion.​

The bitter fruits of Biden, NATO, and the wests failure to grasp these essential points is now being served. The Russians, seeing our reaction have done the following:

1) Bombed a large training base next to Poland, killing 35 (and likely wounding 90 more). That bold move is intended to preclude its use in training Ukrainians on better western arms systems.​

​

2) Bombed two Western airfields that could have been used to receive and base the gifted NATO-Polish Migs.​

​

3) Announced that: "Convoys of foreign weapons, which are thoughtlessly supplied to Ukraine, will be legitimate targets for the Russian Armed Forces."​

Let us hope Churchill was right when he said: "AMERICANS WILL ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING AFTER EXHAUSTING THE ALTERNATIVES." Those alternatives have been exhausted. Time to act NOW.

To date, our response has been impeccable. We have been tough as nails without directly causing an escalation.
To provide air support over Ukraine is a direct escalation and demands a response from Putin. It would be a grave mistake. We now know, Putin knows, Russia would be no match with the USA/NATO in a conventional war. We would be assuring chemicals, biological and nukes come out if we cross into Ukraine in any way.

 

[noonereal]

I fear what Joe will fail to do if Putin escalates further and attacks a NATO nation.

Joe has made clear what he will do. Very clear. He has left no mystery. He has been spoken and backed up all he has said. Putin knows damned well what Joe would do.

You may well be the only person alive who does not.

 

[Linc]

To date, our response has been impeccable. We have been tough as nails without directly causing an escalation.
To provide air support over Ukraine is a direct escalation and demands a response from Putin. It would be a grave mistake. We now know, Putin knows, Russia would be no match with the USA/NATO in a conventional war. We would be assuring chemicals, biological and nukes come out if we cross into Ukraine in any way.

GZP leader trump continues to praise 💩tin. russki repub liars and traitors support russia while lying about supporting Ukraine. russia/china tactics

 

[Linc]

You know he is the guy that killed the plane deal, right? You know that the US is the most powerful and influential member of NATO, right?

russki repubs are double-talking traitors

 

[Linc]

Bozo Biden and his people have found a new favorite catchphrase: "Don't want to escalate things".

Uh...TOO LATE!! Putzin is escalating things. Look at Mariupol! It's a fracking wasteland now! Look at this article...before and after pics:

Ukraine-Russia war: Satellite images reveal fires, severe damage to residential buildings in Mariupol

Satellite images taken on Saturday reveal destruction and damage to residential buildings, as well as a hospital, in Mariupol, Ukraine, as Russia's ongoing war with the country continues.

www.foxnews.com

GZP trump and his russki repub traitors opposed helping Ukraine. Now they are liars and cowards, as well as traitors.

 

[Linc]

Yes, now 2.7 million refugees, so many that the bordering states have no way to shelter more.

thanks to GZPootins dividing America

 

[Linc]

Yep...that is what awaits Kiev if Biden doesn't quit wiping his forhead and finding reasons not to do something.

Shameful...just Shameful.

SHAMEFUL is ZQPootin russki repubs giving aid and comfort to russia, china, and belarus.

 

[maxparrish]

thanks to GZPootins dividing America

When the President won't listen to a bipartisan majority in a Democratic controlled Senate, we already know who's dividing the country with his stubborn obtuseness. So should you.

 

[Threegoofs]

The NATO coalition under the leadership of President Joe Biden is going to let Ukraine be reduced to rubble and the dead bodies of women and children and then Biden will trot out and say, "We did everything we could to help Ukraine. No Questions, I'll get in trouble if I take questions."
I fear what Joe will fail to do if Putin escalates further and attacks a NATO nation.

This is hilarious coming from a Trumper.

 

[CaughtInThe]

it doesn't matter what NATO does. it's a lose/lose.