Ukraine Cannot Guarantee Safety During Moscow’s Victory Day Celebration (1 Viewer)

[Jason Warfield]

I’m not at all surprised that the Ukrainian Nazis refuse to guarantee the safety of those attending a parade celebrating the defeat of the Nazis in WWII.

Since you feel it was OK for Russia to use Nazis in Ukraine as one of their pre-text for invading Ukraine...then perhaps they should invade the United States to get rid of the Nazis here, or more realistically, allow Russian units to operate within American borders to root out American Nazis. I'm sure once they are done, they will just up and leave, right?

Oh, but wait a moment...

The Russians sided with the Nazis and together invaded Poland and divided the country up between themselves admist the atrocities they committed.. Then signed a non-aggression pact for ten years which would have enabled both nations to do whatever they wanted as long as it didn't interfere with one another. Even though the Nazis would later betray Russia, it should be noted that until that point, the Russians were perfectly happy to deal with the Nazis.

I don't think a lot of people are buying what you are selling....

 

[bomberfox]

The U.S. still mourns the Third Reich getting crushed by the Soviets, yes.

“Whataboutism” is a totally meaningless term invented to defend Western colonialism and oppression of minorities.

Yeah, unlike American apologists blatant hypocrisy isn’t something I see as a good thing.

Because the US doesn’t really see the Nazis as being bad, as I already pointed out.

“But Russia! But Russia! But Russia!” Shrieks the U.S. as it helps murder tens of thousands of innocent civilians in Gaza.

Thats not the origin of whataboutism.

 

[Tigerace117]

Thats not the origin of whataboutism.

Yes it is. Ones of its earliest appearances was defending British colonialism in Northern Ireland.

 

[Tigerace117]

Since you feel it was OK for Russia to use Nazis in Ukraine as one of their pre-text for invading Ukraine...then perhaps they should invade the United States to get rid of the Nazis here, or more realistically, allow Russian units to operate within American borders to root out American Nazis. I'm sure once they are done, they will just up and leave, right?

Oh, but wait a moment...

The Russians sided with the Nazis and together invaded Poland and divided the country up between themselves admist the atrocities they committed.. Then signed a non-aggression pact for ten years which would have enabled both nations to do whatever they wanted as long as it didn't interfere with one another. Even though the Nazis would later betray Russia, it should be noted that until that point, the Russians were perfectly happy to deal with the Nazis.

I don't think a lot of people are buying what you are selling....

The Russians spent five years prior to 1939 actively trying to build a “united front” against the Nazis. The Soviets were vocally willing to intervene military to support Czechoslovakia in 1938. Signing a “non aggression pact” is fairly meaningless; the Nazis signed one with Poland, after all.

American companies, meanwhile, continued to help the Nazis even after the US went to war with Hitler.

 

[soap box]

The war predates 2022, as I already pointed out. You trying to downplay the US’ actions doesn’t actually change that fact.

More meaningless “but Putin” wailing because you don’t want to face up the facts.

Oh let's blame Stalin instead! The war is Stalin's fault because he forced the famines. Or we could blame Hitler because he invaded Ukraine like Putin just did.



So who ran the Kremlin when Crimea was annexed. We can blame the Putin of 2014! Let's blame Ukraine because they wouldn't be interested in diplomacy. Let's blame the US because they did something. Have we blamed Israel too? Or we can face the simple fact that Putin started the war. Putin is responsible for the deaths and suffering in Ukraine.

So yes, you can’t actually disprove any of what I pointed out. Noted.

Why would I disprove what I already know. I didn't disagree on what you claimed, you just have always pointed to events and people who did not start the war and who do not share the blame of Putins invasion. You said true things, but nothing you said makes Putin innocent. He's guilty.

Putin started the war. Ukraine cannot be blamed. Putin is the criminal.

 

[Rogue Valley]

You can explain a hundred+ times and they will refuse to comprehend a hundred+ times.

Oh, they comprehend. But they can't quite bring themselves to stop carrying Putin's water.

It's what they do here. It's all they do here. Their raison d'être for posting at Debate Politics.

 

[Tigerace117]

Oh let's blame Stalin instead! The war is Stalin's fault because he forced the famines. Or we could blame Hitler because he invaded Ukraine like Putin just did.



So who ran the Kremlin when Crimea was annexed. We can blame the Putin of 2014! Let's blame Ukraine because they wouldn't be interested in diplomacy. Let's blame the US because they did something. Have we blamed Israel too? Or we can face the simple fact that Putin started the war. Putin is responsible for the deaths and suffering in Ukraine.





Why would I disprove what I already know. I didn't disagree on what you claimed, you just have always pointed to events and people who did not start the war and who do not share the blame of Putins invasion. You said true things, but nothing you said makes Putin innocent. He's guilty.

Putin started the war. Ukraine cannot be blamed. Putin is the criminal.

Or you could just face up to the fact vast numbers of people in what was Eastern Ukraine have no interest in being a part of Ukraine.

But we both know you can’t bear to do that. It’s too inconvenient for your narrative.

 

[Tigerace117]

Oh, they comprehend. But they can't quite bring themselves to stop carrying Putin's water.

It's what they do here. It's all they do here. Their raison d'être for posting at Debate Politics.

The facts don’t go away no matter how much you desperately try to deny them.

 

[soap box]

Or you could just face up to the fact vast numbers of people in what was Eastern Ukraine have no interest in being a part of Ukraine.

But we both know you can’t bear to do that. It’s too inconvenient for your narrative.

I agree with you, that's a fact. You could agree with this*

..the fact that many people in areas and cities in what was Eastern Ukraine have no interest in being a part of Ukraine.

That's a fact but it doesn't make Putin innocent when he bombs civilians in and away from the capitol and away from the Oblasts where these numbers of people live. Which is dwarfed beside the point because Putin has no justified reason for bombing anyone!! Unless it's only a war of conquest., and that's not justified.


And I already knew that some numbers of people in Eastern Ukraine had no interest in being part of Ukraine. That doesn't mean start a war of conquest. But Putin purposely and intentionally started a war shortly after giving interviews where he describes the return of the Soviet empire. It doesn't matter what Biden or Trump did, or what Stalin did. It doesn't matter what Israel did or what the US did. Putin is guilty of starting a war of conquest.

Did those vast numbers want Putin to start a war over it? Not asking if people wanted to secede. I knew that. I'm asking did significant numbers of people in those Oblasts want a war. Are they glad and appreciative with the job Putins doing LOL.

Local government control and structure could've been negotiated with multiple possibilities If Putin was trustworthy, a new referendum could have been offered for a new vote. But that's unthinkable to Putin, isn't it. Why is that unthinkable to him?


Putins choice was to break his treaties and invade.


The point is that Ukraine should only concede symbolic actions. Or in other words, which country has their tanks in the other?


*However it's tainted by the evaluative use of the adjective "vast" without being qualified by an actual number or reference. If "vast"is removed , your claim is a fact.

 

[Tigerace117]

I agree with you, that's a fact. You could agree with this*



That's a fact but it doesn't make Putin innocent when he bombs civilians in and away from the capitol and away from the Oblasts where these numbers of people live. Which is dwarfed beside the point because Putin has no justified reason for bombing anyone!! Unless it's only a war of conquest., and that's not justified.


And I already knew that some numbers of people in Eastern Ukraine had no interest in being part of Ukraine. That doesn't mean start a war of conquest. But Putin purposely and intentionally started a war shortly after giving interviews where he describes the return of the Soviet empire. It doesn't matter what Biden or Trump did, or what Stalin did. It doesn't matter what Israel did or what the US did. Putin is guilty of starting a war of conquest.

Did those vast numbers want Putin to start a war over it? Not asking if people wanted to secede. I knew that. I'm asking did significant numbers of people in those Oblasts want a war. Are they glad and appreciative with the job Putins doing LOL.

Local government control and structure could've been negotiated with multiple possibilities If Putin was trustworthy, a new referendum could have been offered for a new vote. But that's unthinkable to Putin, isn't it. Why is that unthinkable to him?


Putins choice was to break his treaties and invade.


The point is that Ukraine should only concede symbolic actions. Or in other words, which country has their tanks in the other?


*However it's tainted by the evaluative use of the adjective "vast" without being qualified by an actual number or reference. If "vast"is removed , your claim is a fact.

The “bombings away from where those people live” are precisely because Kiev and the West refuse to accept the democratic wishes of those people to leave.

America fully supports wars of conquest across the globe, something which no amount of “but Putin” can change.

No it couldn’t. The Ukrainians rolled in the tanks to depose the government elected in 1994, and there’s no reason to believe they’d have done anything differently the second time around.

The fact they rose up against Kiev and fought for almost a decade before 2022 argues otherwise.

Oh really? Let’s see some evidence for your claim Kiev would have accepted a referendum in Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea allowing those oblasts to leave.

The fact Ukraine’s raids into Russia ended in disastrous defeats for Kiev speak volumes, yes.

 

[Rogue Valley]

..the fact that many people in areas and cities in what was Eastern Ukraine have no interest in being a part of Ukraine.

That's a fact but it doesn't make Putin innocent when he bombs civilians in and away from the capitol and away from the Oblasts where these numbers of people live.

That isn't a fact. The last time a free referendum was held in eastern Ukraine the majority voted to become part of an independent Ukraine.

 

[soap box]

The “bombings away from where those people live” are precisely because Kiev and the West refuse to accept the democratic wishes of those people to leave.

America fully supports wars of conquest across the globe, something which no amount of “but Putin” can change.

No amount of American support for wars of conquest make it ok for Putin to invade.

American support for wars of conquest does not justify Putin conducting a war.

An American war of conquest is in no way justification for Putin starting a war of conquest.

Putins is not justified to invade other countries just because the US supports wars of conquest.
American crimes are not the same as Russian crimes. Russian crimes are not the same as American crimes. Russians are not guilty of the crimes America commits. No one is guilty of Putins crimes, except Putin himself.

Putin is not innocent because someone else did something. Putin is guilty because he invaded Ukraine.

It doesn't matter what anyone else ever did. Putins to blame for this war and he's responsible for the deaths and destruction.

No it couldn’t. The Ukrainians rolled in the tanks to depose the government elected in 1994, and there’s no reason to believe they’d have done anything differently the second time around.

The fact they rose up against Kiev and fought for almost a decade before 2022 argues otherwise.

Oh really? Let’s see some evidence for your claim Kiev would have accepted a referendum in Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea allowing those oblasts to leave.

That's what negotiations can achieve. No one would have died from negotiations. But Putin cannot choose that because he is engaging in a war of conquest in a delusional wish to rebuild the Soviet empire. Did Putin choose diplomacy or did he choose invasion.

The fact Ukraine’s raids into Russia ended in disastrous defeats for Kiev speak volumes, yes.

It is Russian propaganda to claim that Putin had no choice. He deliberately chose to invade. It is absolutely clear that he is not defending a country. Do you want me to believe he gives a sh*t about Russians in Ukraine? If he gives a sh*t about Russians he wouldn't send them into the slaughter. Are you telling me that many Russians have to die? Why do they have to die? The number of dead Russian soldiers is probably greater than the number of Russians they were supposed to save. This false propaganda claim that Putin had no choice, or that he was forced into this is the stupidest and biggest lie of all. No event or group or nation forced Putin to invade. He chose to start the war.


And none of your post says who started the war. Putin exploited of all the lies you are repeating to introduce tanks and arms. Which country has tanks in which country.

Ukraine should only make symbolic concessions because they are not responsible for the deaths and destruction. Putin is.

 

[Tigerace117]

That isn't a fact. The last time a free referendum was held in eastern Ukraine the majority voted to become part of an independent Ukraine.

A guy running on the platform of eventually bringing Crimea back into Russia won over 70 percent of the vote there in 1994.....

An inconvenient fact you simply refuse to acknowledge.

 

[soap box]

That isn't a fact. The last time a free referendum was held in eastern Ukraine the majority voted to become part of an independent Ukraine.

Damn, I was going to look that up. You are correct. I appreciate the correction.

This makes it more of a lousy lying excuse to invade.

 

[soap box]

A guy running on the platform of eventually bringing Crimea back into Russia won over 70 percent of the vote there in 1994.....

An inconvenient fact you simply refuse to acknowledge.

But you were hoping we wouldn't realize that the referendum was conducted after Russian forces occupied Crimea. It was a Putin election and the choice of the status quo was not on the ballot. The referendum was declared invalid by the UN.

 

[Rogue Valley]

But you were hoping we wouldn't realize that the referendum was conducted after Russian forces occupied Crimea. It was a Putin election and the choice of the status quo was not on the ballot. The referendum was declared invalid by the UN.

Indeed. Armed Russian soldiers were present at the Crimea polling places.

The Geneva Conventions and the United Nations consider elections/referendums held in a military-occupied territory to be invalid.

 

[Tigerace117]

But you were hoping we wouldn't realize that the referendum was conducted after Russian forces occupied Crimea. It was a Putin election and the choice of the status quo was not on the ballot. The referendum was declared invalid by the UN.

Russian soldiers were occupying Crimea in 1994? According to who?

 

[Tigerace117]

No amount of American support for wars of conquest make it ok for Putin to invade.

American support for wars of conquest does not justify Putin conducting a war.

An American war of conquest is in no way justification for Putin starting a war of conquest.

Putins is not justified to invade other countries just because the US supports wars of conquest.
American crimes are not the same as Russian crimes. Russian crimes are not the same as American crimes. Russians are not guilty of the crimes America commits. No one is guilty of Putins crimes, except Putin himself.

Putin is not innocent because someone else did something. Putin is guilty because he invaded Ukraine.

It doesn't matter what anyone else ever did. Putins to blame for this war and he's responsible for the deaths and destruction.




That's what negotiations can achieve. No one would have died from negotiations. But Putin cannot choose that because he is engaging in a war of conquest in a delusional wish to rebuild the Soviet empire. Did Putin choose diplomacy or did he choose invasion.



It is Russian propaganda to claim that Putin had no choice. He deliberately chose to invade. It is absolutely clear that he is not defending a country. Do you want me to believe he gives a sh*t about Russians in Ukraine? If he gives a sh*t about Russians he wouldn't send them into the slaughter. Are you telling me that many Russians have to die? Why do they have to die? The number of dead Russian soldiers is probably greater than the number of Russians they were supposed to save. This false propaganda claim that Putin had no choice, or that he was forced into this is the stupidest and biggest lie of all. No event or group or nation forced Putin to invade. He chose to start the war.


And none of your post says who started the war. Putin exploited of all the lies you are repeating to introduce tanks and arms. Which country has tanks in which country.

Ukraine should only make symbolic concessions because they are not responsible for the deaths and destruction. Putin is.

No amount of blind denial can change the beliefs of the people of Crimea, and elsewhere in eastern Ukraine, no matter how much the West rages and wails “but Putin” over and over.



According to who? Because the US does the exact same things as the Russians, and has for decades.

Repeating “Putin” over and over is not an argument.

The West doesn’t do “negotiations”. It isn’t capable of treating other nations with respect, nor actually standing by its assertions, as the debacle with Iran has shown.

Western claims about Russian KIA are laughable. Everything up to and including a million KIA has been asserted on this board. Y’all are just hurling random numbers out there hoping something sticks.

The war started long before Putin invaded.

 

[soap box]

No amount of blind denial can change the beliefs of the people of Crimea, and elsewhere in eastern Ukraine, no matter how much the West rages and wails “but Putin” over and over.

Putin is responsible for the war of conquest. He is guilty.

Russian soldiers were occupying Crimea in 1994? According to who?

In 2014.

The UN rejected the results as invalid because an election is not acceptable in a war zone. There were soldiers with arms outside polling stations.

Look at the map previously posted and recite the percentages in the Oblasts. That's a lousy excuse. Putin started the war and he's responsible for the deaths and carnage.

According to who? Because the US does the exact same things as the Russians, and has for decades.

Repeating “Putin” over and over is not an argument.

Blaming the war on everybody else except Putin is not an argument.

The West doesn’t do “negotiations”. It isn’t capable of treating other nations with respect, nor actually standing by its assertions, as the debacle with Iran has shown.

Don't you want to tell me a whataboutism concerning Chechnya and self determination? Want to tell you a whataboutism concerning Chechnya, but first I would like you to consider the contradiction.

As to your post: It's Putins war and the West did not move tanks inside Ukrainian borders. Putin did that, not the West. The West is not to blame because they didn't start a war of conquest in Ukraine. The West cannot make Putin innocent. Putin is not guilty of the crimes of the West. The West is not guilty of Putins crimes. Putin is guilty of a war of conquest. The West didn't invade Ukraine. Putin did.

Western claims about Russian KIA are laughable. Everything up to and including a million KIA has been asserted on this board. Y’all are just hurling random numbers out there hoping something sticks.

Those dead bodies don't make Putin innocent. Someone's estimate doesn't make Putin innocent or good. He started the war and the KIA on both sides is his fault.

The war started long before Putin invaded.

And that doesn't make Putin innocent of invading Ukraine in 2022. He purposely chose to intentionally invade. It wasn't a mistake and it wasn't defense.

Putin started the war and he's responsible for the deaths and destruction. Because this is Putins war, Ukraine should only have hollow, symbolic actions as their concessions.

 

[Tigerace117]

Putin is responsible for the war of conquest. He is guilty.


In 2014.

The UN rejected the results as invalid because an election is not acceptable in a war zone. There were soldiers with arms outside polling stations.

Look at the map previously posted and recite the percentages in the Oblasts. That's a lousy excuse. Putin started the war and he's responsible for the deaths and carnage.


Blaming the war on everybody else except Putin is not an argument.


Don't you want to tell me a whataboutism concerning Chechnya and self determination? Want to tell you a whataboutism concerning Chechnya, but first I would like you to consider the contradiction.

As to your post: It's Putins war and the West did not move tanks inside Ukrainian borders. Putin did that, not the West. The West is not to blame because they didn't start a war of conquest in Ukraine. The West cannot make Putin innocent. Putin is not guilty of the crimes of the West. The West is not guilty of Putins crimes. Putin is guilty of a war of conquest. The West didn't invade Ukraine. Putin did.


Those dead bodies don't make Putin innocent. Someone's estimate doesn't make Putin innocent or good. He started the war and the KIA on both sides is his fault.



And that doesn't make Putin innocent of invading Ukraine in 2022. He purposely chose to intentionally invade. It wasn't a mistake and it wasn't defense.

Putin started the war and he's responsible for the deaths and destruction. Because this is Putins war, Ukraine should only have hollow, symbolic actions as their concessions.

More of the same blind “but Putin” wailing and ignorance of the facts on the ground.

So utterly irrelevant to the freely stated wishes of the people of Crimea long before 2014, and therefore unable to change said wishes.

Oh really? Because the US held numerous elections in both Iraq and Afghanistan despite both nations being war zones, and those were declared “legitimate”.

As I already pointed out, a pro Russian candidate seeking to reunite Crimea with Russia won over seventy percent of the vote there in 1994, which renders the map meaningless.

Blind denial of the clearly expressed democratic wishes of the people in Crimea because they are inconvenient for the West doesn’t actually make them go away.

Is there a reason you believe the previous generation of Chechens get self determination but the Crimeans don’t?

Other than the usual pathetic hypocrisy of American apologists, that is?

The West sent plenty of their weapons to Ukraine. Plenty of them proceeded to get wrecked.

Trying to pretend like Ukraine didn’t raid into Russia is laughable.

More blind denial of the fact the war began long before 2022.

Gee dude, the Ukrainians are already getting pretty damn tired of being used as cannon fodder in a stalemate that isn’t going their way.

 

[Hamish Howl]

So it turns out that Putin stripped 280 AA systems off the front line to protect his parade.

So Ukraine just plastered the stuff that had been uncovered.

 

[soap box]

More of the same blind “but Putin” wailing and ignorance of the facts on the ground.

Putin started the war and he's responsible for the destruction.

So utterly irrelevant to the freely stated wishes of the people of Crimea long before 2014, and therefore unable to change said wishes.

And that doesn't mean Putin was forced to invade. He chose his war of conquest.

Oh really? Because the US held numerous elections in both Iraq and Afghanistan despite both nations being war zones, and those were declared “legitimate”.

Other legitimate elections do not make the Russian referendum legitimate. Russian referendums don't make real elections valid.

Other invalid elections cannot change Putin elections. Putin elections cannot invalidate any other elections.

A Putin election in those areas isn't invalidated by other elections. Other elections are not all tainted by Putin elections.

A Putin election means you vote for what Putin wants, as there was no option for choosing the status quo. Why couldn't Putin allow this on the ballot? Because he might not get what he wants. So, no.

As I already pointed out, a pro Russian candidate seeking to reunite Crimea with Russia won over seventy percent of the vote there in 1994, which renders the map meaningless.

That doesn't mean that Putin is justified in starting the war or bombing hospitals and orphanages in 2022. Putin was not forced to invade and it was not defensive. The war is Putin's fault.

Blind denial of the clearly expressed democratic wishes of the people in Crimea because they are inconvenient for the West doesn’t actually make them go away.

I never denied there were Russian separatists.
I never said those separatists should leave or stay or anything else. I said their situation is not a reason to invade in a war of conquest. But that's what Putin chose to do. He purposely invaded.

Is there a reason you believe the previous generation of Chechens get self determination but the Crimeans don’t?

Oh, so now you can't think of a whataboutism.

Other than the usual pathetic hypocrisy of American apologists, that is?

The West sent plenty of their weapons to Ukraine. Plenty of them proceeded to get wrecked.

And that doesn't absolve the man who started the war. It's not the West's fault that Putin started a war, and it doesn't matter what happened to the tanks. None of this would be happening without Putin. The war could not possibly have happened without him.

Trying to pretend like Ukraine didn’t raid into Russia is laughable.

Are Ukrainian tanks in Russia, or are Russian tanks in the Ukraine?

More blind denial of the fact the war began long before 2022.

I never denied this war has precedent. I never denied that was true. But that is not a justification, reason, or excuse to invade Ukraine.

Gee dude, the Ukrainians are already getting pretty damn tired of being used as cannon fodder in a stalemate that isn’t going their way.

Then individual Ukrainians decide for themselves, but I think your comment has been applied to the Russian soldiers for more than a year. Putin is recruiting in prisons and N Korea.


Putin is the only human in this entire planet that could stop this war tomorrow.
Putin could stop the war tomorrow.

 

[Tigerace117]

Putin started the war and he's responsible for the destruction.



And that doesn't mean Putin was forced to invade. He chose his war of conquest.



Other legitimate elections do not make the Russian referendum legitimate. Russian referendums don't make real elections valid.

Other invalid elections cannot change Putin elections. Putin elections cannot invalidate any other elections.

A Putin election in those areas isn't invalidated by other elections. Other elections are not all tainted by Putin elections.

A Putin election means you vote for what Putin wants, as there was no option for choosing the status quo. Why couldn't Putin allow this on the ballot? Because he might not get what he wants. So, no.



That doesn't mean that Putin is justified in starting the war or bombing hospitals and orphanages in 2022. Putin was not forced to invade and it was not defensive. The war is Putin's fault.


I never denied there were Russian separatists.
I never said those separatists should leave or stay or anything else. I said their situation is not a reason to invade in a war of conquest. But that's what Putin chose to do. He purposely invaded.



Oh, so now you can't think of a whataboutism.



And that doesn't absolve the man who started the war. It's not the West's fault that Putin started a war, and it doesn't matter what happened to the tanks. None of this would be happening without Putin. The war could not possibly have happened without him.



Are Ukrainian tanks in Russia, or are Russian tanks in the Ukraine?


I never denied this war has precedent. I never denied that was true. But that is not a justification, reason, or excuse to invade Ukraine.



Then individual Ukrainians decide for themselves, but I think your comment has been applied to the Russian soldiers for more than a year. Putin is recruiting in prisons and N Korea.


Putin is the only human in this entire planet that could stop this war tomorrow.
Putin could stop the war tomorrow.

Hysterically repeating “Putin” over and over doesn’t actually change the facts.

Putin wasn’t even around in 1994. Blather about a “Putin ballot” is worthless.

Elections only being “legitimate” if the people the West wants to win win rather clearly demonstrates the point, actually.

More meaningless cries of “Putin” over and over to try and avoid facing the facts.

The outcome the West wanted didn’t win, therefore the election was “invalid” in your world, yes. You’ve made that quite clear.

None of America’s wars have been defensive for the last seventy plus years or so, ye which makes the flailing, as mentioned, meaningless.

Putin was not obligated to allow the West to establish yet another potential front for “Operation Russian Freedom”, sorry. If the US is willing to invade Canada, they’ll invade just about anyone.

Oh, so in other words the blather about Chechnya was meaningless. Noted.

Clearly false, because the war started long before 2022.

The only reason there aren’t “Ukrainian tanks in Russia” is that the Ukrainian raiders were sent fleeing back across the border.

Entire Ukrainian units have collapsed without firing a shot on several occasions.

Clearly yet another falsehood.

 

[Rogue Valley]

I've personally visited the Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts in Ukraine.

Firstly, ethnic Russian citizen of Ukraine =/= Russian citizen. All ethnicities born in Ukraine are Ukrainian citizens.

As I know firsthand, the solution for those living in the Luhansk/Donetsk oblasts of Ukraine and who wish to live under Russian governance can simply move to Russia. The trip is an hour at the most from all parts of Donetsk oblast and even less driving time from Luhansk oblast. The highways that will deliver them to the Russian border are M14 (Donetsk oblast), M03, and M04 (Luhansk oblast). Russia's OKA Agency will assist with residency permits, housing, etc.

 

[Tigerace117]

I've personally visited the Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts in Ukraine.

Firstly, ethnic Russian citizen of Ukraine =/= Russian citizen. All ethnicities born in Ukraine are Ukrainian citizens.

As I know firsthand, the solution for those living in the Luhansk/Donetsk oblasts of Ukraine and who wish to live under Russian governance can simply move to Russia. The trip is an hour at the most from all parts of Donetsk oblast and even less driving time from Luhansk oblast. The highways that will deliver them to the Russian border are M14 (Donetsk oblast), M03, and M04 (Luhansk oblast). Russia's OKA Agency will assist with residency permits, housing, etc.

And the people living in Texas could have simply moved to America if they were unhappy under Santa Anna.

They didn’t, because people’s democratic wishes are not obligated to be ignored simply because others find them inconvenient.