Ukraine Cannot Guarantee Safety During Moscow’s Victory Day Celebration (1 Viewer)

[Tigerace117]

Mamluks are not a new concept.

Were the 442nd and the “colored” units “Mamluks” as well?

After all, the US had their families in prison camps.

 

[Cosmo]

Gee dude, probably because the Nazis, contrary to your blind denials, explicitly planned on invading and carrying out a genocidal war of conquest against the USSR the entire time,

You mean like the USSR was doing to its neighbors?

 

[j brown's body]

You are aware the Soviets had multiple divisions worth of Polish troops fighting alongside them....right?

For that matter, the Soviets gave the Poles big chunks of economically valuable German land after the war.

Russia let the Nazis fight the Polish partisans on their own so they could soften them up for when they, like the Nazis (yet another comparison) took over Poland.

 

[Tigerace117]

Ask anyone. Aren't they the only nation to get expelled from the League of Nations?

Kind of hilarious that you think countries leaving before they could get kicked out doesn’t count.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Ask anyone. Aren't they the only nation to get expelled from the League of Nations?

The Russians were ****s. Still are. They were useful ****s starting in 1941, is all.

If they would just stay inside their borders and continue drinking themselves to death, there wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Tigerace117]

You mean like the USSR was doing to its neighbors?

Uh....no? The Soviets never had anything remotely close to Generalplan Ost.

 

[j brown's body]

Gee dude, probably because the Nazis, contrary to your blind denials, explicitly planned on invading and carrying out a genocidal war of conquest against the USSR the entire time,

Sounds familiar.

Russia's Genocide in Ukraine - CSCE

Russia’s violently imperial war in Ukraine is not only a flagrant violation of international law and interstate norms, but it also carries all the hallmarks of an ongoing campaign of […]

www.csce.gov

 

[Tigerace117]

Russia let the Nazis fight the Polish partisans on their own so they could soften them up for when they, like the Nazis (yet another comparison) took over Poland.

The Soviets allowed American B-17s to fly supply missions for the uprising during Operation Frantic.

More than 90 percent of the supplies dropped felt into German hands.

The Red Air Force flew over two thousand supply missions during the battle as well using PO-2s.

 

[Tigerace117]

Sounds familiar.

Russia's Genocide in Ukraine - CSCE

Russia’s violently imperial war in Ukraine is not only a flagrant violation of international law and interstate norms, but it also carries all the hallmarks of an ongoing campaign of […]

www.csce.gov

A term rendered meaningless given the refusal of the West to acknowledge Israel’s actions in Gaza as genocidal.

 

[j brown's body]

Meaningless given the refusal of the West to acknowledge Israel’s actions in Gaza as genocidal.

Don't be so modest. I'm sure if the west acknowledged Israel's actions in Gaza as genocidal, you'd find another scenario to rationalize Russia's genocide.

 

[j brown's body]

The Soviets allowed American B-17s to fly supply missions for the uprising during Operation Frantic.

More than 90 percent of the supplies dropped felt into German hands.

The Red Air Force flew over two thousand supply missions during the battle as well using PO-2s.

Doesn't contradict my statement.

"...there is a consensus among the majority of Polish and Western historians that it was a political decision of Stalin not to support the Uprising in order to let German troops destroy the forces of the Home Army (which tried to re-establish the independent Polish state)."

Link

 

[Tigerace117]

Don't be so modest. I'm sure if the west acknowledged Israel's actions in Gaza as genocidal, you'd find another scenario to rationalize Russia's genocide.

But the West won’t, because accusations of “genocide” coming from it are entirely based on geopolitical alignment rather than actual actions.

Which, as mentioned, renders the term meaningless.

 

[Tigerace117]

Doesn't contradict my statement.

You claimed the Soviets “let” the uprising be crushed, which is debatable at best, and ignores the air they did provide for said uprising.

The Germans sure claimed they did, and I get a lot of the US’ beliefs on the Eastern Front are literally just regurgitated Nazi propaganda, but that doesn’t change the fact historians still actively debate the matter, which is anything but confirmed.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Were the 442nd and the “colored” units “Mamluks” as well?

After all, the US had their families in prison camps.

Fair question.

Were Americans of Japanese descent forced to fight? Were their families treated worse if they didn't, or better if they did? Were they conscripted?

 

[j brown's body]

You claimed the Soviets “let” the uprising be crushed, which is debatable at best, and ignores the air they did provide for said uprising.

The Germans sure claimed they did, and I get a lot of the US’ beliefs on the Eastern Front are literally just regurgitated Nazi propaganda, but that doesn’t change the fact historians still actively debate the matter, which is anything but confirmed.

"...there is a consensus among the majority of Polish and Western historians that it was a political decision of Stalin not to support the Uprising in order to let German troops destroy the forces of the Home Army (which tried to re-establish the independent Polish state)."

Link

 

[Tigerace117]

Fair question.

Were Americans of Japanese descent forced to fight? Were their families treated worse if they didn't, or better if they did? Were they conscripted?

Idk dude, if your family is in a prison camp, at the total mercy of the government and racist mobs who’d already repeatedly attacked Japanese Americans at any excuse or none and at all, you are basically being coerced even if you “volunteer” to fight.

As for the African American units, American troops overseas had no hesitation whatsoever about using force to try and enforce Jim Crow, with separate incidents in Britain, Australia, and New Zealand that I can recall.

 

[j brown's body]

But the West won’t, because accusations of “genocide” coming from it are entirely based on geopolitical alignment rather than actual actions.

Which, as mentioned, renders the term meaningless.

Just as you won't with Russia in Ukraine.

You're no different than they are.

 

[Tigerace117]

"...there is a consensus among the majority of Polish and Western historians that it was a political decision of Stalin not to support the Uprising in order to let German troops destroy the forces of the Home Army (which tried to re-establish the independent Polish state)."

Link

“The Red Army was fighting intense battles further to the south of Warsaw, to seize and maintain bridgeheads over the Vistula river, and to the north of the city, to gain bridgeheads over the river Narew. The best German armoured divisions were fighting on those sectors. ”

“According to David Glantz (military historian and a retired US Army colonel, as well as a member of the Russian Federation's Academy of Natural Sciences), the Red Army was simply unable to extend effective support to the uprising, which began too early, regardless of Stalin's political intentions.[43] German military capabilities in August – early September were sufficient to halt any Soviet assistance to the Poles in Warsaw, were it intended.[43] In addition, Glantz argued that Warsaw would be a costly city to clear of Germans and an unsuitable location as a start point for subsequent Red Army offensives.[43]”

Warsaw Uprising - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Warsaw wasn’t the only place the Soviets were fighting.

There was “consensus” amongst Western historians that Stalin killed over twenty million people.

Then, gee, whoops, it turned out he didn’t even kill half of that.

 

[Tigerace117]

Just as you won't with Russia in Ukraine.

You're no different than they are.

Not a single country in human history has declared its actions “genocide” while they are ongoing, so that’s a meaningless cry.

The credibility of outside accusers, of course, can always be examined....and, in the West’s case, clearly found wanting.

 

[Gordy327]

They were fine with murdering their neighbors like Finland and Poland to take territory, but then started to take an interest in each other's territories and that's when things turned from friendship to war. So no, I see no huge inherent problem Russia had with Nazism as an ideology.

Germany broke the non-aggression pact and invaded Russia. It's understandable Russia would get peeved about it.

They agreed to split up Poland and then jointly invaded it a few days later and did just that. It's a military alliance in substance.

No, it was more of a land grab. There was no formal alliance outside the non-aggression pact.

 

[Cosmo]

Kind of hilarious that you think countries leaving before they could get kicked out doesn’t count.

So what are you saying? That Germany would have gotten kicked out anyway and therefore Russia is no better or worse than Nazi Germany?

 

[Cosmo]

The Russians were ****s. Still are. They were useful ****s starting in 1941, is all.

If they would just stay inside their borders and continue drinking themselves to death, there wouldn't be a problem.

What if they run out of methanol?

 

[j brown's body]

So what are you saying? That Germany would have gotten kicked out anyway and therefore Russia is no better or worse than Nazi Germany?

His main defense of Russia is that they're like the world's other villains.

The "everybody does it" rationale.

 

[j brown's body]

Not a single country in human history has declared its actions “genocide” while they are ongoing, so that’s a meaningless cry.

The credibility of outside accusers, of course, can always be examined....and, in the West’s case, clearly found wanting.

You can stop rationalizing now. I understand your point of view.

 

[Cosmo]

Germany broke the non-aggression pact and invaded Russia. It's understandable Russia would get peeved about it.

I guess Russia thinks rape, murder, and wars of aggression and territorial conquest are only OK when they're the beneficiaries.

No, it was more of a land grab. There was no formal alliance outside the non-aggression pact.

The "non-aggression pact" contained a secret protocol to divide up Poland.