UK EU referendum [W:40:728]

[Grant]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

Is that the best you've got? Using that logic I guess the French are to be congratulated for the ending of the Revolutionary War - treaty named for Paris and all that. :roll:

In fact that's a very poor example, given that the French eventually lost the situation. Not giving credit where it's due is aall too typical of Europeans, and tiresome as well. Perhaps that's why they get so little respect anywhere, even from each other.

 

[Grant]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

Exactly right Jack. I was and remain very grateful. Leftist anti-Americanism in Western Europe saddens me.

You know you're not along in your feelings, Sweden. Many Europeans feel the same way but are often overwhelmed by the antis.

 

[Grant]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

Yes, you have I do not have your patience, and dismiss him 100% of the time, due to his in-built bias.

I'd rather there were more Wiggens, Gunnars and Swedens in Europe and less PeteEU's but in fact Pete's views are not uncommon. In fact this anti American silliness has made Europe less relevant in the world. Serious problems lie ahead and now they are without the strong allies they had in the past, and in fact can't even get along with each other. All they seem to do is whine, bitch and complain without ever offering serious alternatives..

 

[lenski7]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

And that's his problem, Pete. He doesn't want any factual challenge to the American exceptionalist, neo-con narrative. You agree that American power is the undisputed and unique force for good in the world, or you're anti-American, almost certainly a leftist Eurofag, and definitely an apologist for Putin/Assad/ISIS/Cologne rapists.

There's no middle ground whereby you can criticize and praise where appropriate, but these are zealots we're dealing with. So be it.

Thank you so much, I couldn't of stated this better, people who are radically 'American', it is just disgusting. To support your country no matter how dirty, or stupid the deed, then re-elect than same sense of self-righteousness every time, is appalling. Then people who hate the country, are absolutely disgusting, why even bother live in the United States. I guess being in between the neo-con, and the left isn't a real position is it. We need a third party, a centralist party.




EDIT : ...and I need a spell check!

 

[Andalublue]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

I'd rather there were more Wiggens, Gunnars and Swedens in Europe and less PeteEU's

Unsurprising position coming from one of DP's staunchest anti-Europeans.

 

[Grant]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

Unsurprising position coming from one of DP's staunchest anti-Europeans.

I'm able to support my position with facts.

The anti Americanism in Europe is so damned tiring, especially coming from countries which used to be their closest allies.

This anti Americanism is as stupid as anti Australianism, anti Canadianism or anti New Zealandism. Leftist Europeans genuinely don't how foolish they really are or where their real problems lie. That may be why they just keep bouncing from one great problem to the next while people in those other countries mentioned manage to get along quite peacefully.

 

[Andalublue]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

I'm able to support my position with facts.

I can't say I've ever noticed.

This anti-Europeanism is as stupid as anti Australianism, or anti New Zealandism. Rightist North Americans genuinely don't know how foolish they really are or where their real problems lie. That may be why they just keep bouncing from one great problem to the next while people in those other countries mentioned manage to get along quite peacefully.

Just tidied that up for you. See how cut-and-paste postings really don't do anything except expose your prejudices.

 

[Grant]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

I can't say I've ever noticed.

Facts are your friends. You should do some research and then correct me if I'm ever wrong.

Just tidied that up for you. See how cut-and-paste postings really make me look like a damned fool?.

Yes, I can see that..

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

I can't say I've ever noticed.

LOL, you don't consider Briebart and Gatestone Institute to be honest factual sources then?

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

Is that the best you've got? Using that logic I guess the French are to be congratulated for the ending of the Revolutionary War - treaty named for Paris and all that. :roll:

The French were in fact critical to the outcome of the Revolutionary War. Without them there would have been no victory at Yorktown.

 

[PeteEU]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

The French were in fact critical to the outcome of the Revolutionary War. Without them there would have been no victory at Yorktown.

Shhhhh that is a secret..

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

Shhhhh that is a secret..

Certainly seems to have been unknown to at least one of us.

 

[Wiggen]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

And that's his problem, Pete. He doesn't want any factual challenge to the American exceptionalist, neo-con narrative. You agree that American power is the undisputed and unique force for good in the world, or you're anti-American, almost certainly a leftist Eurofag, and definitely an apologist for Putin/Assad/ISIS/Cologne rapists.

There's no middle ground whereby you can criticise and praise where appropriate, but these are zealots we're dealing with. So be it.

Still waiting for the 'praise' part. Instead we get this leftwing Euro bull**** that attempts to re-write history. Not buying it for a minute.

 

[Wiggen]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

Shhhhh that is a secret..

Not a secret to any school child in the US who takes a US history course. But I understand that this doesn't fit in with your unfailing anti-American view of history. You know nothing about us but you continue to shoot your mouth off as if you do. Amusing.

 

[Wiggen]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

Exactly right Jack. I was and remain very grateful. Leftist anti-Americanism in Western Europe saddens me.

It saddens many thoughtful Europeans. The Far Left is, and always will be, a joke.

 

[Wiggen]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

That's pretty true. I've had to take him to task for that a dozen times, but that doesn't undermine the point that the Wiggens of this world are cut from the same cloth, just one with a different pattern of hatreds.

Gee, 'the Wiggens of the world'. Hmmm. That could be considered trolling. Guess we'll see.

 

[Wiggen]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

I'd rather there were more Wiggens, Gunnars and Swedens in Europe and less PeteEU's but in fact Pete's views are not uncommon. In fact this anti American silliness has made Europe less relevant in the world. Serious problems lie ahead and now they are without the strong allies they had in the past, and in fact can't even get along with each other. All they seem to do is whine, bitch and complain without ever offering serious alternatives..

Thanks, Grant. You and I are on opposite sides when it comes to domestic politics, but I like to consider you a 'wiggen' when it comes to dealing with anti-American bull****. Or maybe I'm a 'Grant'.

 

[Wiggen]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

That's pretty true. I've had to take him to task for that a dozen times, but that doesn't undermine the point that the Wiggens of this world are cut from the same cloth, just one with a different pattern of hatreds.

You've 'taken him to task for that a dozen times'?:lamo

 

[PeteEU]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

Not a secret to any school child in the US who takes a US history course. But I understand that this doesn't fit in with your unfailing anti-American view of history. You know nothing about us but you continue to shoot your mouth off as if you do. Amusing.

LOL yea, that is why Americans have made a sport out of talking negative of France and the French.. one would think that Americans would be thankful as if it was not for the French, there would be no USA.

 

[Wiggen]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

LOL yea, that is why Americans have made a sport out of talking negative of France and the French.. one would think that Americans would be thankful as if it was no for the French, there would be no USA.

Well, I think we've paid them back by saving their ungrateful asses from the Germans twice in the space of 30 years. But, wait, I forgot. It was the French who actually defeated Hitler in 1945. A thousand pardons.:lamo

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

If we could get back to the subject of the EU referendum...

Jeremy Corbyn should not allow "internal party chaos" to jeopardise the campaign to keep Britain in the European Union, the leader of the Liberal Democrats has said.

~

At the Lib Dems' spring conference in York, he said: "Jeremy Corbyn, please do not let your own internal party chaos get in the way of winning this campaign.
"I know you may have wanted to leave in the past, but we treat your conversion as genuine and so I ask you to show the zeal of the convert and get on board."
He added: "If your party leadership remains blinkered to the risk, then your party is sleepwalking to the exit. So, come with us, share a platform, and let's make the positive, unified case that we all believe in." Link.

Farron is right in one regard - "Some of the rhetoric in the campaign recently has been unpleasant, to put it mildly, People on both sides have tried to scaremonger about borders, refugees and migrants. Using desperate people fleeing war and terror as pawns to score points is appalling and it is weak."

There have been attacks and scaremongering on either side on the argument and position of the other side - and none of that helps inform the public with such a momentous decision to be made.

 

[Andalublue]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

If we could get back to the subject of the EU referendum...



Farron is right in one regard - "Some of the rhetoric in the campaign recently has been unpleasant, to put it mildly, People on both sides have tried to scaremonger about borders, refugees and migrants. Using desperate people fleeing war and terror as pawns to score points is appalling and it is weak."

There have been attacks and scaremongering on either side on the argument and position of the other side - and none of that helps inform the public with such a momentous decision to be made.

Farron playing point-scoring party political games using the EU referendum? Say it ain't so!

You (and he) are right that the two sides of the EU debate are descending to nasty tactics and settling personal animosities, but I really haven't noticed Labour voices being much involved, have you? It seems to be settling of scores between people who want to take control of the Tory party after Dave goes. Gove ratting out the Queen can't really be laid at Corbyn's door, now can it?

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

~ but I really haven't noticed Labour voices being much involved, have you? ~

Ah, you may have missed Nicola Sturgeon asking Corbyn to be a little bit more convincing in his engagement on the debate. There was a prickle as he preferred to go to a Trident event than make any announcement on the EU but with pressure mounting on him here to be more vocal he has promised a "big speech" on Labour (and his) position.

I think some of this will be Labour deciding to sit quietly while the Conservatives tear themselves apart on the EU.

 

[Andalublue]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

Ah, you may have missed Nicola Sturgeon asking Corbyn to be a little bit more convincing in his engagement on the debate.

Exactly. It's non-Labour voices making all the noise. I really don't get the impression that Labour is much divided on this. There are just a few fringe Brexiters in the Labour ranks. Kate Hoey hasn't been frontline for Labour for a decade or more. Who else is calling for an out vote?

There was a prickle as he preferred to go to a Trident event than make any announcement on the EU but with pressure mounting on him here to be more vocal he has promised a "big speech" on Labour (and his) position.

Labour's problem with this referendum appears to be one of apathy, not division. Talking to friends at a very senior level in the Manchester Labour Party, it seems that they are a bit complacent. They seem to me to assume that the British people wouldn't be stupid enough to vote to leave, but then, they didn't think they'd be stupid enough to vote Cameron and Osborne back in - but they were!

If turn-out is low and the Brexiters win by default, Labour will have a lot to answer for because of their lack of interest in the matter.

I think some of this will be Labour deciding to sit quietly while the Conservatives tear themselves apart on the EU.

I think that prospect is appealing to a lot of Labour figures. It's a stupid strategy to adopt though, given the catastrophic damage to the UK economy that Brexit will bring. I guess some of them must believe that that catastrophe would sweep them back to power, under Corbyn, and with no EU regulations preventing the re-nationalisation of public enterprises such as nuclear energy, railways and airports. I see the appeal, but know it would be a disaster.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: UK EU referendum [W:40]

LOL yea, that is why Americans have made a sport out of talking negative of France and the French.. one would think that Americans would be thankful as if it was not for the French, there would be no USA.

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[h=2]Battle Without End[/h] The casualties of Verdun
Mar 14, 2016
By Geoffrey Norman
There is something hard, cold, and brutal about the structure. It looks like a concrete airplane hangar and rising above it is what is called the “Lantern of the Dead." The shape suggests, appropriately, an artillery shell.
When you walk around the outside of the building you find small windows, and when you look through them what you see are bones. Human bones and skulls. Piles of them. They are the remains of more than 130,000 men who were killed here and whose bodies could not be recovered or identified and so remained in the mud, blown apart again and again by artillery shells, in what was arguably the most awful battle of the First World War.
This, the Douaumont Ossuary, is the perfect memorial to that battle,
Read more