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UK and Syria

blackjack50

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http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/29/world/europe/syria-civil-war/index.html

Basically the British PM is saying we can't tolerate the actions of Al Assad. It is easy to say that. It is all talk though. The reality is that Russia support these guys. Nobody wants to invade. So we are stuck. Sure. Someone may nut up enough to drop a few bombs, but that won't solve anything. We could also go drop a few humvees and a few companies of infantry and tanks and such. But then it is just a waiting game.

So what are we left with? Arming Al Queda? Certainly not. Syria is a prime example of containment and why the west should stay the hell out of the Middle East. It is only a matter of time till someone kills Assad or ousts him from power. And we all know the rebels are not good guys either in this. People want to know how to solve the Middle East violence problem? Let it runs its course.

The reality is that nobody will support conflict there. People are going to die. A few bombs may be dropped by the "UN" but a few more craters in the Mid East is nothing new.
 

MMC

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World must act to stop Syria's chemical weapons use, Cameron says - CNN.com

Basically the British PM is saying we can't tolerate the actions of Al Assad. It is easy to say that. It is all talk though. The reality is that Russia support these guys. Nobody wants to invade. So we are stuck. Sure. Someone may nut up enough to drop a few bombs, but that won't solve anything. We could also go drop a few humvees and a few companies of infantry and tanks and such. But then it is just a waiting game.

So what are we left with? Arming Al Queda? Certainly not. Syria is a prime example of containment and why the west should stay the hell out of the Middle East. It is only a matter of time till someone kills Assad or ousts him from power. And we all know the rebels are not good guys either in this. People want to know how to solve the Middle East violence problem? Let it runs its course.

The reality is that nobody will support conflict there. People are going to die. A few bombs may be dropped by the "UN" but a few more craters in the Mid East is nothing new.
Heya SW. :2wave: Wasn't it the Brits who jumped on the Band Wagon with the French First?
 

Montecresto

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Usually the "UN" doesn't drop bombs, but that being besides the point, we hear Americans regularly point out our OBLIGATION to intervene when an ally is threatened or attacked. It is no different with Russia, Syria being their ally, of course they are going to support them. But this goes deeper than that. The Assad government predates Obama's birth certificate, like the syrian government or not, there are plenty of countries around the world that recognise it as legit, have embassies, exchange ambassadors, and otherwise do business with each other. So there are those that see supporting the established government as the right thing to do. Only a handful of western countries fancy supporting terrorists in their effort to overthrow the Assad government. I for one hope that Russia and China stand their ground and deny the west their wet dream of toppling another government they don't like.
 

Canell

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If Syrians don't like Assad, let them organize and take him down. It's an internal affair and no other country has business there.
If we assume that countries are independent and sovereign, that is.
 

Montecresto

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NATO says 70% of Syrians support Assad. This is a western lead affair.

The data, relayed to NATO over the last month, asserted that 70 percent
of Syrians support the Assad regime. Another 20 percent were deemed neutral and the remaining 10 percent expressed support for the rebels.

Russian officials and the media have been constantly recalling "Yugoslavia - 1999", "Iraq - 2003" and "Libya - 2011" as examples of Western military intervention which resulted in regime change.

The suspicion in Moscow is that the West is plotting to add "Syria - 2013" to the list.

Next, Russia continues to warn that military intervention will have "catastrophic consequences" for the wider region, including a rise in radical Islam. This week Russia's deputy prime minister tweeted that "the West is playing with the Islamic world like a monkey with a grenade".


Finally, Russia believes that any military action without a mandate from the UN Security Council would be a "grave violation of international law".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23865053
 
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SouthParkFan1

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I can see no national interest for the UK to get involved in a situation hundreds of miles away. The situation in Syria is sad, chemical weapons killing innocent people, but this isn't our fight. What really ticks me off sometimes is how we here in the UK have our own domestic issues but when a foreign crisis spurs out our politicians behave like they have this magical god given role to enforce their ever changing morals.
 

Montecresto

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So here's the deal. Sense 70% of Syrians squarely support Assad, 20% are neutral and only 10% support the terrorist rebels, why are people on this board or anywhere else supporting a strike on Syria. And furthermore, why does anybody still believe the stale propaganda coming from Washington? If your concern is for syrian civilians, then get on board with the syrian civilians and tell Washington to bud out!
 

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World must act to stop Syria's chemical weapons use, Cameron says - CNN.com

Basically the British PM is saying we can't tolerate the actions of Al Assad. It is easy to say that. It is all talk though. The reality is that Russia support these guys. Nobody wants to invade. So we are stuck. Sure. Someone may nut up enough to drop a few bombs, but that won't solve anything. We could also go drop a few humvees and a few companies of infantry and tanks and such. But then it is just a waiting game.

So what are we left with? Arming Al Queda? Certainly not. Syria is a prime example of containment and why the west should stay the hell out of the Middle East. It is only a matter of time till someone kills Assad or ousts him from power. And we all know the rebels are not good guys either in this. People want to know how to solve the Middle East violence problem? Let it runs its course.

The reality is that nobody will support conflict there. People are going to die. A few bombs may be dropped by the "UN" but a few more craters in the Mid East is nothing new.
While I think that Assad should have been deposed, when he started shooting at the demonstrators. At that time there were no Islamists and terrorists fighting and it would have been clear cut and clean.

I do not think the US should have been the one to do it. That should have been the neighbors (Turkey, Arabia, Europe) or better even the UN. It did not happen.

Now the US will have to do something, because the President set an ultimatum. If the dictator did not adhere and Obama does nothing it will be more costly for the US in the next conflict. Also R2P is important and requires precedence. The UN had very good reasons to introduce the new norm and it is in our vital interest.

Also it would not be enough to throw a bomb or two.
 

Higgins86

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Heya SW. :2wave: Wasn't it the Brits who jumped on the Band Wagon with the French First?
Nope Obama phoned Cameron this week and now we are rushing to pass this before Obama goes on his trip.


BBC News - Why Cameron buckled on Syria vote
 

P. Kersey

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Usually the "UN" doesn't drop bombs, but that being besides the point, we hear Americans regularly point out our OBLIGATION to intervene when an ally is threatened or attacked. It is no different with Russia, Syria being their ally, of course they are going to support them. But this goes deeper than that. The Assad government predates Obama's birth certificate, like the syrian government or not, there are plenty of countries around the world that recognise it as legit, have embassies, exchange ambassadors, and otherwise do business with each other. So there are those that see supporting the established government as the right thing to do. Only a handful of western countries fancy supporting terrorists in their effort to overthrow the Assad government. I for one hope that Russia and China stand their ground and deny the west their wet dream of toppling another government they don't like.
Excellent points.
 

MMC

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Nope Obama phoned Cameron this week and now we are rushing to pass this before Obama goes on his trip.


BBC News - Why Cameron buckled on Syria vote
Ah.....I was looking at before this last year. ;)
 

blackjack50

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Usually the "UN" doesn't drop bombs, but that being besides the point, we hear Americans regularly point out our OBLIGATION to intervene when an ally is threatened or attacked. It is no different with Russia, Syria being their ally, of course they are going to support them. But this goes deeper than that. The Assad government predates Obama's birth certificate, like the syrian government or not, there are plenty of countries around the world that recognise it as legit, have embassies, exchange ambassadors, and otherwise do business with each other. So there are those that see supporting the established government as the right thing to do. Only a handful of western countries fancy supporting terrorists in their effort to overthrow the Assad government. I for one hope that Russia and China stand their ground and deny the west their wet dream of toppling another government they don't like.
How do you respond to the use of chemical weapons? Just curious. I mean we can talk about "the evil western empire" all day, but the fact is that most Americans don't really give a poopie about Syria and wouldn't support a war. The most you will get out of us might be some Predator drones, missiles, and bombs. But I doubt it.

I think though...that if someone is using Chemical weapons...that China or Russia should consider their stance as "allies." Of course neither is really concerned about how they look in terms of "human rights."
 

Montecresto

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How do you respond to the use of chemical weapons? Just curious. I mean we can talk about "the evil western empire" all day, but the fact is that most Americans don't really give a poopie about Syria and wouldn't support a war. The most you will get out of us might be some Predator drones, missiles, and bombs. But I doubt it.

I think though...that if someone is using Chemical weapons...that China or Russia should consider their stance as "allies." Of course neither is really concerned about how they look in terms of "human rights."
Russia has presented satellite imagery to the UN that proves the Islamist extremists conducted the chemical attack.
 

blackjack50

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Russia has presented satellite imagery to the UN that proves the Islamist extremists conducted the chemical attack.
Can you please cite this? As of the most recent reports the United States and other are certain that it is the other way around. I wouldn't put it past the Russians to spin up some false intel like that to drum up anti-western sentiment. Never mind that they are allies with the Al Assad regime.
 

Montecresto

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Can you please cite this? As of the most recent reports the United States and other are certain that it is the other way around. I wouldn't put it past the Russians to spin up some false intel like that to drum up anti-western sentiment. Never mind that they are allies with the Al Assad regime.
And the White house would never peddle propaganda of its own? Present the damn evidence to the security council and secure the necessary authorization or set down.
 

Montecresto

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Can you please cite this? As of the most recent reports the United States and other are certain that it is the other way around. I wouldn't put it past the Russians to spin up some false intel like that to drum up anti-western sentiment. Never mind that they are allies with the Al Assad regime.
How many times does your government have to lie to you before you call bull ****, we've all seen this movie before!
 

blackjack50

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How many times does your government have to lie to you before you call bull ****, we've all seen this movie before!
Wow a double meltdown. I take it the "satellite images" didnt pan out? Seriously dude. All I asked was for a link or citation to the Russian images. I mean do you expect me to take Russia for its word on the issue? Certainly they wouldn't have a stake in protecting the Syrian regime right?

I don't trust my government or the intelligence. But I also don't trust the Russian government either. Why do you? Are you aware of the widespread corruption in that government? My simple claim from the start has been that I am opposed to the Syrian regime because they are not humanitarian, but I don't support the rebels either. I hope they all kill each other so the Russians can dig their pipeline and get bombed for their interference in the Middle East.

But as far as trusting China or Russia over my country? Dream on.
 

blackjack50

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And the White house would never peddle propaganda of its own? Present the damn evidence to the security council and secure the necessary authorization or set down.
Yea it isn't like Putin is a former KGB hard liner or anything. Yea. Much better to trust the Kremlin than my government.
 
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