• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

U.S. strengthens support of Abbas in Gaza

cherokee

Devil Dog
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
7,486
Reaction score
790
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
RAMALLAH, West Bank,

Mahmoud Abbas got a major boost in his increasingly bellicose showdown with Hamas on Saturday, with a U.S. diplomat saying he expects a crippling embargo to be lifted once the Palestinian president appoints a government without the Islamic militants.

But the money is unlikely to reach Gaza, now controlled by Hamas and cut off from the world.

The new Cabinet is to be sworn in Sunday in the West Bank, where Fatah forces stormed government offices on Saturday, just three days after Hamas seized control of Gaza and Abbas dismantled the Hamas-Fatah coalition government in response.
U.S. strengthens support of Abbas - Focus on Israel/Palestinians - MSNBC.com


Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Sunday said the formation of a new Palestinian government without Hamas creates an “opportunity” for renewed peace moves.


Who wants to take bets on how long it takes the Hamas to assassinate Abbas?
The Hamas and other Islam-o-reject groups wont stand for Abbas taking their Middle East "poster child" away from them...
 
Internationally, Mahmoud Abbas now has tremendous political capital. The proposed new Palestinian government of Abbas in Ramallah has garnered the support of Israel, the United States, the European Union, the Roadmap For Peace Quartet, and the Arab League.

Hamas is becoming increasingly politically isolated and for all practical purposes is financially bankrupt. The IDF has sealed the Israeli border with Gaza to prevent Hamas from reinforcing its militia forces in the Fatah controled West Bank. Egypt is on the brink of also sealing its border with Gaza.

What we have then is Hamas - an Iran/Syria proxy - isolated politically and restricted militarily. It wouldn't surprise me at all then if Hizb'Allah in Lebanon - another Iran/Syria proxy - reprised its 2006 missile attacks on northern Israel. Remember... the Lebanese government and the United Nations guaranteed that "all armed groups in Lebanon" would be disarmed under UN Resolution 1559.
 
Internationally, Mahmoud Abbas now has tremendous political capital. The proposed new Palestinian government of Abbas in Ramallah has garnered the support of Israel, the United States, the European Union, the Roadmap For Peace Quartet, and the Arab League.

.

But don't just you know that all the little neomarxist reactionaries of the world will be screaming bloody murder that we're supporting him.
 
But don't just you know that all the little neomarxist reactionaries of the world will be screaming bloody murder that we're supporting him.
Don't forget the internationalist Hamas sympathizers. I can't wait to see how Billo endeavors to twist these developments. :mrgreen:
 
As a belivere in democracy you can't forget the fact that Hamas won the election. And the way the west dealt with that have pracitcly started a civilwar in Gaza.
 
As a belivere in democracy you can't forget the fact that Hamas won the election. And the way the west dealt with that have pracitcly started a civilwar in Gaza.
Hamas did indeed win the election, but that doesn't mean that the event is without consequence. Hamas has been declared a terrorist organization by Israel, the United States, the EU, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and many other nations and organizations. Are you blaming the West now for the Palestinian fracture? Is it not acceptable that democratic nations refuse to financially support and thus prop-up terrorist organizations?

Democratic western nations have both the legal and legitimate right to support kindred governments, and to refuse support to governments who advocate terrorism and violence. Do not equate democracy to stupidity.
 
Remember... the Lebanese government and the United Nations guaranteed that "all armed groups in Lebanon" would be disarmed under UN Resolution 1559.

Have you ever read UN resolution 1559?

No where does said resolution "guarantee" that all armed groups in Lebanon would be disarmed by the UN or Lebanese goverment. It "CALLS" for their disarming yes, but thats hardly a guarantee. On top of that has Isreal lived up to the resolution by withdrawing from all of Lebanon?
 
Have you ever read UN resolution 1559? No where does said resolution "guarantee" that all armed groups in Lebanon would be disarmed by the UN or Lebanese goverment. It "CALLS" for their disarming yes, but thats hardly a guarantee.
You are technically correct.

Speaking of Lebanon and its failure to disarm militia's...

Suspected Palestinian fighters fire rockets at Israel
17 Jun 2007 14:58:33 GMT
Source: Reuters

BEIRUT, June 17 (Reuters) - Suspected Palestinian fighters fired rockets into northern Israel from southern Lebanon on Sunday, a security source in Lebanon said.

"There were four or five rockets fired into northern Israel," the security source said.

Another security source said three rockets were fired from the area of the south Lebanese village of Taibeh, two of which landed in northern Israel and another landed near a U.N. peacekeepers' position in the southern Lebanese Houla village.

In Jerusalem, a police spokesman said two Katyusha rockets landed in the northern Israeli town of Kiryat Shmona near the border with Lebanon causing damage but no injuries. (Reporting by Nadim Ladki and Laila Bassam in Beirut)
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L17609432.htm
 
Don't forget the internationalist Hamas sympathizers. I can't wait to see how Billo endeavors to twist these developments. :mrgreen:

I'm sure yet another opinion piece from everythingthat'swrongwiththeworldisthefaultoftheJews.com will be forthcoming.
 
As a belivere in democracy you can't forget the fact that Hamas won the election. And the way the west dealt with that have pracitcly started a civilwar in Gaza.

No see this is not the West's fault why in the hell should the West fund a terror state calling for the destruction of their neighbors? This is the Palestinians fault they had a choice to vote for peace and a better life they instead voted for war and suffering and now with the fence up and them unable to kill Israelis they are forced to kill eachother in order to satisfy their bloodlust. Even when it's Palestinians who are killing Palestinians you people still find a way to blame the West and Israel it's really quite a thing to see.
 
Have you ever read UN resolution 1559?

No where does said resolution "guarantee" that all armed groups in Lebanon would be disarmed by the UN or Lebanese goverment. It "CALLS" for their disarming yes, but thats hardly a guarantee.

Funny then that the only group that hasn't disarmed is Hezbollah, hmm I wonder why that is, perhaps because their manifesto calls for no negotiations and the murder of anyone who does.

We see in Israel the vanguard of the United States in our Islamic world. It is the hated enemy that must be fought until the hated ones get what they deserve. This enemy is the greatest danger to our future generations and to the destiny of our lands, particularly as it glorifies the ideas of settlement and expansion, initiated in Palestine, and yearning outward to the extension of the Great Israel, from the Euphrates to the Nile.

Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated.

We vigorously condemn all plans for negotiation with Israel, and regard all negotiators as enemies, for the reason that such negotiation is nothing but the recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist occupation of Palestine. Therefore we oppose and reject the Camp David Agreements, the proposals of King Fahd, the Fez and Reagan plan, Brezhnev's and the French-Egyptian proposals, and all other programs that include the recognition (even the implied recognition) of the Zionist entity.

On top of that has Isreal lived up to the resolution by withdrawing from all of Lebanon?

You're god damn ****ing right they did regardless of what the proven to be fake map says.
 
Last edited:
You are technically correct.

No I am 100% correct.

The UN has zero mandate to disarm anyone in Lebanon. If such a mandate would be given, it would mean that they would have to disarm the IDF on occupied Lebanese land.. and there aint a chance in hell such a resolution would get past the US veto.

And considering that Isreal still are in violation of 1559... accusing the UN and partly Lebanon for violations of 1559 is kinda... silly.

Speaking of Lebanon and its failure to disarm militia's...

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L17609432.htm

So? As long as Isreal stays on Lebanese land, contested or not, Hizbollah will have a reason to exist. Not to mention that Lebanon does not see Hizbollah as a malitia which is also "technically" true... since we are down that road. Malitias in Lebanon context were parties involved from the start in the Lebanese civil war.. Hizbollah was not formed till Israel invaded and stayed in Lebanon in 1982 and was formed to get Israel and its sympathisers out of Lebanon. That has yet to happen 100%.

The funny/sad thing about Mid East politics is that each argument can be countered by either side and both are often "technically" correct... especially if you put very narrow parameters in place.

But now we have a 3 state solution forming.. weee more caos, and deals that no one will live up too and will break at any point.

Now if Isreal were smart, and had any balls, then she would give Abbas and Fatah almost everything they demand on the west bank and make a deal on the other issues. Peace at all cost. That would isolate Hamas and radicals even more and maybe just maybe turn the people in Gaza against Hamas and its policies. If they saw that their west bank brothers and sisters got freedoms, land and many of the things they had been fighting for so long, maybe just maybe will they give peace a chance and not go towards the radicals. After all the main reason Hamas won the election was because they could provide basic needs that Fatah could not.. jobs, hospitals and schools.

But I bet it will not happen, as radicals on both sides will sabotage it. All it takes is a wacko settler attacking a Palestinian or a wanna be terrorist attacking an Isreali and we back to sqauare one.. Just think if the radical settlers in Hebron would to be removed..

If there were just some politicans in the middle east that had a pair of balls!
 
So? As long as Isreal stays on Lebanese land, contested or not,

It's not contested it is a proven ****ing fact that the map is a fake so p!ss off with your jihadi propaganda.

Hizbollah will have a reason to exist.

Hezbollah will continue to exist so long as Israel exists it's right there in their manifesto, they will not negotiate and they will murder anyone who does.

We see in Israel the vanguard of the United States in our Islamic world. It is the hated enemy that must be fought until the hated ones get what they deserve. This enemy is the greatest danger to our future generations and to the destiny of our lands, particularly as it glorifies the ideas of settlement and expansion, initiated in Palestine, and yearning outward to the extension of the Great Israel, from the Euphrates to the Nile.

Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated.

We vigorously condemn all plans for negotiation with Israel, and regard all negotiators as enemies, for the reason that such negotiation is nothing but the recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist occupation of Palestine. Therefore we oppose and reject the Camp David Agreements, the proposals of King Fahd, the Fez and Reagan plan, Brezhnev's and the French-Egyptian proposals, and all other programs that include the recognition (even the implied recognition) of the Zionist entity.

CAMERA Snapshots: Hezbollah's Manifesto
 
It's not contested it is a proven ****ing fact that the map is a fake so p!ss off with your jihadi propaganda.

Funny, you attack anyone these days with different views on subjects with such personal attacks and no basis proof or anything. Just calling the names and throwing insults at them and calling them anything from commies to terrorists.

The small (and it is small) area is disputed. The UN has said so (granted it has also said that all Isreali forces are out of Lebanon), and Lebanon and Syria both contest the area. There is no doubt that the area was captured by Isreal in the 1967 war, the question is if the area was Lebanon (as Lebanon claims and partly Syria too) or was part of the Golan Heights and hence Syria, as Isreal claims.

Point is that Isreal has annexed the area, and there is more than a little doubt and zero discussion between the 3 parties involved to create a problem. As long as Lebanon claims its her terrortory and the issue is unresolved because of one or all sides being stubord morons, then Hezbollah will have a claim to exist based on the reasons of its formation in the first place.

Hezbollah will continue to exist so long as Israel exists it's right there in their manifesto, they will not negotiate and they will murder anyone who does.

So you dispute that Hezbollah was formed to drive Isreal out of Lebanon after the 1982 invasion then? That political dick waving by politicans in a time of war some how changes facts of how said war started? That WW2 was to save the Jews from mass murder now, and not to stop facism? That no one knew of the holocaust till almost the end of the war, still means that the war was to save the Jews and not to stop facism? Thats exactly what you are claiming in your "attacks" on me in this discussion.

Not to mention you link the manifesto via a blog who gets its information from an Isreali site.. not exactly unbiased sources.
 
No I am 100% correct.

The UN has zero mandate to disarm anyone in Lebanon. If such a mandate would be given, it would mean that they would have to disarm the IDF on occupied Lebanese land.. and there aint a chance in hell such a resolution would get past the US veto.

And considering that Isreal still are in violation of 1559... accusing the UN and partly Lebanon for violations of 1559 is kinda... silly.
1) The IDF is not considered a militia.
2) The IDF hs totally withdrawn from all Lebanese territory per 1559.
3) A 'Call' in UN parlance is synonymous with a resolution stipulation.
4) Lebanon is in non-compliance of Resolution 1559-Point 3.

So? As long as Isreal stays on Lebanese land, contested or not, Hizbollah will have a reason to exist. Not to mention that Lebanon does not see Hizbollah as a malitia which is also "technically" true... since we are down that road. Malitias in Lebanon context were parties involved from the start in the Lebanese civil war.. Hizbollah was not formed till Israel invaded and stayed in Lebanon in 1982 and was formed to get Israel and its sympathisers out of Lebanon. That has yet to happen 100%.
Israel has totally withdrawn from all Lebanese territory. For your edification, the UN regards Shebaa Farms as Syrian territory occupied by Israel, not Lebanese territory subject to Resolution 242. And indeed, Hizb'Allah is an Islamist militia, funded/armed/trained by Iran and Syria, and beyond the control and purview of the Lebanese government and military.

Now if Isreal were smart, and had any balls, then she would give Abbas and Fatah almost everything they demand on the west bank and make a deal on the other issues. Peace at all cost. That would isolate Hamas and radicals even more and maybe just maybe turn the people in Gaza against Hamas and its policies. If they saw that their west bank brothers and sisters got freedoms, land and many of the things they had been fighting for so long, maybe just maybe will they give peace a chance and not go towards the radicals. After all the main reason Hamas won the election was because they could provide basic needs that Fatah could not.. jobs, hospitals and schools.
Abbas is perhaps the weakest Arab leader in a very troubled region. He is also a known terrorist (Achille Lauro). Nevertheless, he is the lesser of two evils. Israel has already stated that it will recognize and support the new Palestinian government (Abbas/Fatah) in Ramallah.

But I bet it will not happen, as radicals on both sides will sabotage it. All it takes is a wacko settler attacking a Palestinian or a wanna be terrorist attacking an Isreali and we back to sqauare one.. Just think if the radical settlers in Hebron would to be removed..
Just think if the Qassam rocket attacks from Gaza (and now Lebanon) would be removed...

If there were just some politicans in the middle east that had a pair of balls!
Sticking your neck out in this volatile region can be very risky and extremely painful.
 
Funny, you attack anyone these days with different views on subjects with such personal attacks and no basis proof or anything. Just calling the names and throwing insults at them and calling them anything from commies to terrorists.

The small (and it is small) area is disputed. The UN has said so (granted it has also said that all Isreali forces are out of Lebanon), and Lebanon and Syria both contest the area. There is no doubt that the area was captured by Isreal in the 1967 war, the question is if the area was Lebanon (as Lebanon claims and partly Syria too) or was part of the Golan Heights and hence Syria, as Isreal claims.

It's not a question the map showing that it is part of Lebanon is a proven fake and all other maps prior to 1967 show the Shebaa Farms as belonging to Syria. Furthermore; the Shebaa farms have never once been an issue until now in that they are clearly being used to justify murdering innocent Israeli civilians so like I said p!ss off with your Jihadi propaganda!

So you dispute that Hezbollah was formed to drive Isreal out of Lebanon after the 1982 invasion then?

Yes I do as the Hezbollah manifesto clearly states that they were created to destroy Israel hooked on phonix worked fer me:

Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated.

We vigorously condemn all plans for negotiation with Israel, and regard all negotiators as enemies, for the reason that such negotiation is nothing but the recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist occupation of Palestine. Therefore we oppose and reject the Camp David Agreements, the proposals of King Fahd, the Fez and Reagan plan, Brezhnev's and the French-Egyptian proposals, and all other programs that include the recognition (even the implied recognition) of the Zionist entity.

CAMERA Snapshots: Hezbollah's Manifesto
 
Last edited:
It's not a question the map showing that is part of Lebanon is a proven fake and all other maps prior to 1967 show the Shabaa Farms as belonging to Syria.

Yes I do as the Hezbollah manifesto clearly states that they were created to destroy Israel hooked on phonix worked fer me:

Yes there is several maps who are "considered" fakes. However there is more than enough evidence from various sources, including Isreali scholars, that puts doubt to if the area was Lebanese or Syrian. Its not Isreali thats for sure.

There are documents that people in the area paid taxes to Lebanon in the 1930s and the French in most cases saw the area as being Lebanese. There are other facts and documents from the French colonial forces and others, that at least give Lebanons claims a bit of justification. Now I aint saying that they are right, but I am saying that there is a dispute there.

The area is in dispute, and that is enough for some to claim that Isreal still on Lebanese land.
 
Yes there is several maps who are "considered" fakes. However there is more than enough evidence from various sources, including Isreali scholars, that puts doubt to if the area was Lebanese or Syrian. Its not Isreali thats for sure.

There's not one ****ing map that shows it as part of Lebanon, show me a damn map putting the Shebaa farms in Lebanon, oh that's right ya can't because it doesn't exist because the Shebaa Farms is not part of Lebanon and never has been.

There are documents that people in the area paid taxes to Lebanon in the 1930s and the French in most cases saw the area as being Lebanese. There are other facts and documents from the French colonial forces and others, that at least give Lebanons claims a bit of justification. Now I aint saying that they are right, but I am saying that there is a dispute there.

The area is in dispute, and that is enough for some to claim that Isreal still on Lebanese land.

It's never been in dispute until the Israeli withdrawal, and the reason it is now is glaringly obvious to non-jihadi supporters. And regardless the Shebaa farms were never a point of Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon in the first place.
 
Last edited:
The United Nations agreed with Israel that the area is not covered by United Nations UN Security Council Resolution 425, which governed the withdrawal from Lebanon, inasmuch as the Farms are not Lebanese territory, and the UN certified Israel's pullout. At the same time the UN noted that its decision was "without prejudice to future border agreements between the Member States concerned," referring to Israel, Syria, and Lebanon.

The UN stated: "On 15 May 2000, the United Nations received a map, dated 1966, from the Government of Lebanon which reflected the Government's position that these farmlands were located in Lebanon. However, the United Nations is in possession of 10 other maps issued after 1966 by various Lebanese government institutions, including the Ministry of Defense and the army, all of which place the farmlands inside the Syrian Arab Republic. The United Nations has also examined six maps issued by the Government of the Syrian Arab Republic, including three maps since 1966, which place the farmlands inside the Syrian Arab Republic."

More recently, the January 20, 2005 UN Secretary-General's report on Lebanon stated rather emphatically: "The continually asserted position of the Government of Lebanon that the Blue Line is not valid in the Shab'a farms area is not compatible with Security Council resolutions. The Council has recognized the Blue Line as valid for purposes of confirming Israel’s withdrawal pursuant to resolution 425 (1978). The Government of Lebanon should heed the Council’s repeated calls for the parties to respect the Blue Line in its entirety."

The BBC quoted Timur Goskel, a spokesman for the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) as saying that "no-one disputed that the village of Shebaa itself was in Lebanon, but most of the farms fell into an undefined area that may be either in Lebanon or Syria" and although the UN was not a "boundary marking authority... on all maps the UN has been able to find, the farms are seen on the Syrian side [of the border]."

On May 19, 2005, an off-the-record discussion with an unnamed senior diplomat from an unidentified country at the Washington DC-based Brookings Institution luncheon reported that: "in drawing the 'Blue Line' in 2000, the United Nations looked at more than ninety different maps of the region. Only one of them — which was deemed a forgery — showed the Shebaa Farms as Lebanese."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shebaa_Farms

Despite what Hizb'Allah believes, the UN agrees that Israel has totally withdrawn from all Lebanese territory.
 
1) The IDF is not considered a militia.

No, but point 2 of the resolution states:

Calls upon all remaining foreign forces to withdraw from Lebanon;

Isreal is a foreign force, just as Syria was.

2) The IDF hs totally withdrawn from all Lebanese territory per 1559.

Yes and no. UN resolution 242 (which Isreal is in violation off) states that Isreal should withdraw from the area it took in the 1967 (yes there is a dispute over the wording... does it mean all or just some.. but put that aside). Now it is disputed land, between Syria and Lebanon and there is evidence for both sides as I have stated before. Because of this dispute Lebanon is within its rights to claim that Isreal has not withdrawn from Lebanon, which of course they claim and that is the basis for Hezbollah to exist. That the UN has screwed up by passing other resolutions that basicly ignore Lebanons claim and the facts, and hence still leaving the area in dispute is bad international politics. But done is done, and the UN has left open a small window by calling for Syria, Lebanon and Isreal to work out the borders in the region.. (funny enough once again putting in doubt the border).

3) A 'Call' in UN parlance is synonymous with a resolution stipulation.

Hardly. The UN cant demand jackshit of Lebanon or of it self unless specifically written so. If your "synonymous" accusation was correct then the UN would have bound itself to removing Hezbollah (and others including Isreal) without putting any troops or material on the ground or in play?

4) Lebanon is in non-compliance of Resolution 1559-Point 3.

Again disputed. Depends on how you define things. The Lebanese dont count Hezbollah as a malitia force but a national resistance force going after Isreali occupation forces. So under those definitions they are technically correct. Hezbollah was formed long after the civil war and the other fightng groups involved and Hezbollah was only formed when Isreal invaded in 1982 and was formed to get rid of Isreal from Lebanese land. That a small area is still in dispute and there are IDF there, then Hezbollahs primary reason to stay around is still in valiad. That I suspect this defninition has more to do with local politics than reality, they can defend their definition as long as the Shebaa Farms issue is unresolved. Just as other border disputes between countries as far away as South America and older by several centuries still give problems between countries, dispite the maps of today showing an "offical border".

Israel has totally withdrawn from all Lebanese territory. For your edification, the UN regards Shebaa Farms as Syrian territory occupied by Israel, not Lebanese territory subject to Resolution 242. And indeed, Hizb'Allah is an Islamist militia, funded/armed/trained by Iran and Syria, and beyond the control and purview of the Lebanese government and military.
Exactly, Isreal regards, and Lebanon and others dispute this claim. That there is an issue for that small area of land makes Hezbollahs claim of the IDF being on Lebanese land a bit viable.

As I have stated before Shebaa Farms is disputed (and occupided) land. That Isreal has one view, Syria another, the UN a third view and Lebanon almost a 4th view of the situation, only means the area is disputed and presently occupied by Isreal who is in violation of Resolution 242.

Abbas is perhaps the weakest Arab leader in a very troubled region. He is also a known terrorist (Achille Lauro). Nevertheless, he is the lesser of two evils. Israel has already stated that it will recognize and support the new Palestinian government (Abbas/Fatah) in Ramallah.

I agree he is a weak leader. But as for the rest.. so what. Several founding fathers of Isreal were wanted terrorists by the British empire and have admited and been linked to terror bombings and worse. George Washington would have been considered a terrorist today too sooo...

Just think if the Qassam rocket attacks from Gaza (and now Lebanon) would be removed...

Would be great, but that would require a lot of bending, word eating, putting pride aside and more to get done. And "technically" Hezbollah has denied it has fired any rockets from Lebanon. Normally they would have no problems admiting they did, so I am guessing its some other radicals trying to stir up trouble.

Sticking your neck out in this volatile region can be very risky and extremely painful.

I agree fully. We have seen it time and time again on both sides.

But as long as all these small disputes over land, water, religion, and what not are in place and no one willing or wanting to sit down and make hard deals to secure a peace, I simply dont see much hope for peace as it stands now.

Also having zealots on both sides that absolutely want no peace and would rather kill every single man woman and child of the opposition.... dont make it easy.
 
Hamas did indeed win the election, but that doesn't mean that the event is without consequence. Hamas has been declared a terrorist organization by Israel, the United States, the EU, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and many other nations and organizations. Are you blaming the West now for the Palestinian fracture? Is it not acceptable that democratic nations refuse to financially support and thus prop-up terrorist organizations?

Democratic western nations have both the legal and legitimate right to support kindred governments, and to refuse support to governments who advocate terrorism and violence. Do not equate democracy to stupidity.

All good points, but as you as an Israelian knows much better then me the situation is much more complex then that. And their are many other ways too look at the situation.

First of all that you now in one way ends up with a goverment that "represent the people" and one "that represent foreign intrests". If you look at that from only this perspective it's easy to see what goverment you prefer, ecpecially amongst the american friends on this board. So it’s extremly bad Hamas can end up being the goverment ”that represent the people”.

Another is security. That if you have a situation their Hamas keeps the peace with Israel but Islamic Jihad atacks Israel from Gaza. And Israel of course get upset and blames the Hamas goveremnet from not stopping it. Then the Hamas goverment can say hey we can only pay our security forces in gravel and shoelaces do you really expect them to keep the security on that kind of salary?

A third perspective is the magnitude of the consequence that the situation before the election was desperate and know getting even more desperate. Because of the power west and Israel as over Gaza. Israel can basicly controle all the Gaza boarders including the sea and with american help also stop all the money transfer. Without the meager income from trade and work in Israel the Gaza people will be even more in need of foreign aid that know is to large degree is stop. This at the same time the goverement can’t pay their employees and what is left of the official goverment structure is falling apart, including security. Both from lack of aid and taxincome but also that they can’t get taxincomes that Israel has collected from palestiniens areas is not payed out. Then you can simplisticly say hey it’s their own fault. But that is not very constructive. Ecpecially sens a breakdown of the govermental, economicla and humanitarian situation in Gaza is both a short term and long term threath towards Israel security and stability in ME.
 
PeteEU said:
And "technically" Hezbollah has denied it has fired any rockets from Lebanon. Normally they would have no problems admiting they did, so I am guessing its some other radicals trying to stir up trouble.
No one said Hizb'Allah fired rockets at Israel. I will post the article again for your express benefit....

Suspected Palestinian fighters fire rockets at Israel
17 Jun 2007 14:58:33 GMT
Source: Reuters

BEIRUT, June 17 (Reuters) - Suspected Palestinian fighters fired rockets into northern Israel from southern Lebanon on Sunday, a security source in Lebanon said.

"There were four or five rockets fired into northern Israel," the security source said.

Another security source said three rockets were fired from the area of the south Lebanese village of Taibeh, two of which landed in northern Israel and another landed near a U.N. peacekeepers' position in the southern Lebanese Houla village.

In Jerusalem, a police spokesman said two Katyusha rockets landed in the northern Israeli town of Kiryat Shmona near the border with Lebanon causing damage but no injuries. (Reporting by Nadim Ladki and Laila Bassam in Beirut)
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L17609432.htm
 
Who wants to take bets on how long it takes the Hamas to assassinate Abbas?
The Hamas and other Islam-o-reject groups wont stand for Abbas taking their Middle East "poster child" away from them...

Abbas should beef up his personal security because we all know Abbas is now a huge target along with his wife. Hamas has to be crushed beyond repair.
 
Abbas should beef up his personal security because we all know Abbas is now a huge target along with his wife. Hamas has to be crushed beyond repair.

You can bet your azz the islamotards will do everything they can to derail any progress made in the coming weeks with the US lifting its ban on US aid to Palestine.

As I have said before Palestine is the "Poster Child" for all the islamotard groups out there. They wont just sit by and allow peace and prosperity to settle in Palestine thus taking away their hate generator/money maker.
 
Back
Top Bottom