U.S. Response to Israel-Hamas War Draws Fury in Middle East

[ralfy]

"Fury"

 

[Integrityrespec]

Absolutely.

The US Congress/US Government is an annex of Zionism.

This will cause more 9-11 style blowback IMO.

Don't forget that Hamas took Americans as hostages and killed at least 30. Personally I'd like to see more of a response by our military against Hamas. Biden will talk but will do nothing directly with our troops, same as Ukraine.

 

[Mongidig]

I think most Americans would like to see the Middle East turned into a parking lot. This is the epicenter of all the worlds problems. I think the US should continue to double down on it's support for Israel. I'm shocked we haven't declared war over our missing and killed Americans. The Arab nations nations hate everybody. They will always find a reason for Jihad. I say we do everything we can to piss them off and then show them a little force and put them back into their place.

 

[Tigerace117]

I think most Americans would like to see the Middle East turned into a parking lot. This is the epicenter of all the worlds problems. I think the US should continue to double down on it's support for Israel. I'm shocked we haven't declared war over our missing and killed Americans. The Arab nations nations hate everybody. They will always find a reason for Jihad. I say we do everything we can to piss them off and then show them a little force and put them back into their place.

Sounds like a terrible idea.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

U.S. Response to Israel-Hamas War Draws Fury in Middle East

We've been lax in bombing these countries. Hopefully Mr. Biden will rectify that oversight.

Many Arabs view the American government as not only being indifferent to the agony of Palestinians living under Israeli occupation, but also complicit in it.

I certainly hope that we are complicit in it.

“There is tremendous anger in the Arab world, even by those who do not support Hamas,” said Nabil Fahmy, a former foreign minister of Egypt.

Easily solved. Dead people don't feel anger.

Has Biden gone too far in his expressed support for Israel?

No.

He has begun tempering that support

Not really.

and it makes sense - we can't try to hold Israel accountable for their violence if we don't first acknowledge the toll that violence has taken on them.

Israel is doing nothing wrong that they would need to be held accountable for.

But then, it's possible, even likely, Israel's going to to what it wants to regardless.

Rightly so. And America will back them up on whatever they want to do.

It's an awfully tricky situation.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Biden has said what any normal president would say and the sentiment is probably felt by the vast majority of Americans. He's on pretty solid political ground here. But surely he would like to use this crisis as an opportunity to untie the Gordian knot of Israeli-Palestinian conflict. But is anybody listening? It's possible that as the violence continues, the opportunity he seeks may become more likely. It's also possible the perpetrators of the violence will find it politically expedient to continue it.

Achieving peace would be nice. And I'm sure that Mr. Biden would like to achieve it.

But let's be realistic. The time for peace talks is over. Now is time for unrestrained warfare.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

I think we're making a big mistake by wading into this mess. It would be best if we back off and condemn war crimes of both sides.

It would be wrong to accuse Israel of war crimes considering the fact that they are not committing any.

And we could make things worse. Choosing a side will piss somebody off regardless.

If anyone causes trouble for the US because of our support for Israel, the solution to that problem is to have the US Air Force eliminate the people who are causing trouble for the US because of our support for Israel.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Hamas is winning the battle of social media and the ultimate goal of undermining support for Israel seems to be working.
It is astounding to watch it unfold.

They certainly aren't undermining my support.

Are they undermining the support of anyone who counts?

 

[Toggle Almendro]

how do you feel about the innocent Palestinians that just want to get up in the mornings, take care of their families and live their lives?

I hope those Palestinians survive.

But I don't think there are very many of such Palestinians.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

So what do you think will happen in the end? Will Israel take control of Gaza? Occupy it?
Or will Israel kills a bunch of Hamas fighters, build a stronger wall around the place and then leave?

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2023/10/17/israeli-minister-losing-land-is-price-arabs

 

[Toggle Almendro]

The US alone has stood in the way, for decades, of a just resolution of the conflict using international law as the point of departure for negotiations.

Fake news. Never happened.

The US repeatedly supported a just resolution of the conflict.

Israel repeatedly supported a just resolution of the conflict.

The Palestinians repeatedly rejected peace and chose to murder people.

Anyone can see this because every year at the UN in November they have a vote on it and the US veto blocks an overwhelming world consensus.

Preventing UN neonazis from passing antisemitic resolutions is a good thing.

The Arabs are right for seeing the US as the enabler of IDF massacres of Palestinian civilians living in Gaza and the smaller killing in the WB.

The IDF is not massacring civilians.

This time they have an aircraft carrier off shore and so they cannot possibly claim not to know what is going on. They are witnessing it for themselves.

Two aircraft carriers.

They are not there as witnesses. The US may need to level Lebanon so Israel can focus on leveling Gaza.

People may well not be supporters of Hamas but the upshot of this will be that it will be ever more difficult for westerners to blindly support Israeli atrocities against the Palestinians.

No such atrocities are occurring.

It is not at all difficult for me to support Israel.

The mask has slipped and the true ugliness of Israels current leadership is laid bare.

Nonsense.

Good luck to those who have set themselves up as defenders of Israeli actions.

Defending Israel's actions is quite easy. I just need to tell the truth.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

If the US decided to not support Israel diplomatically or financially, using it's sway over the relationship, then they would be compelled to stop or face an even worse debacle.

Israel is not going to stop defending themselves.

Without US aid, Israel would ally with someone else. Whoever is most likely to provide the best protection. I speculate China.

But we will not need to worry about that. The US will never stop supporting Israel.

They have responded, 3000 mainly innocent people are dead already, a thousand of them kids. If they continue they way they are going then support for Israel will be extremely difficult to sell to anyone but the hopelessly biased.

The Palestinian death toll is fake.

And the US will continue to support Israel.

IMO they could use assassination squads or just enter Gaza and engage with Hamas fighters directly, instead of dropping one ton bombs on innocent peoples heads and killing masses of innocent people.

Israel will soon be entering Gaza and taking it over.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

I think they were unnecessary atrocities but I'm not surprised to see you support them

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not atrocities. Wartime strikes on military targets are perfectly legal.

The whole "unnecessary" thing is gibberish to begin with. But do note that Japan was refusing to surrender when the atomic bombs were dropped.

Correct and that's what the military is for. You cannot just say we are happy to be mass war criminals because we don't want our troops to be shot at/ killed .

Not war criminals. Military targets are perfectly legal to attack.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

I don't think it was the only option

What is this "only option" nonsense?

We were not choosing a single way of attacking Japan. We were attacking Japan on all fronts simultaneously. That included dropping atomic bombs on their military targets.

and even if it was soldiers should fight other soldiers, not civilians imo

That's why we dropped the atomic bombs on military targets.

As I said I don't think it was the only option

What is this "only option" nonsense?

We were not choosing a single way of attacking Japan. We were attacking Japan on all fronts simultaneously. That included dropping atomic bombs on their military targets.

but I would rather soldiers fight soldiers rather than vaporize thousands of civilians.

That's why we dropped the atomic bombs on military targets.

You seem, disturbingly, completely at ease with it.

Not likely given the fact that we did not attack civilians.

Any ease is likely to be due to the fact that we only bombed legitimate military targets.

Soldiers die in wars, civilian lives should be of paramount importance imo

That's why we dropped the atomic bombs on military targets.

I'm saying that the indiscriminate bombing of civilian centres, whether countries do engage in it ( which is no excuse either imo) is a war crime and is to be condemned because it is a crime.

That's why we dropped the atomic bombs on military targets.

There is also the question of proportionality.

No such question exists.

Do you think Israel, off the back of the attack on its people, should be given the right to put the lives of 2 million people in the balance? That it should be allowed to engage in further collective punishments of the people existing in Gaza? Do you think Israeli soldiers should be given cart blanche to kill in Gaza when they do invade it?

Israel has every right to kill anyone who resists their invasion.

Israel will not fire on people who do not resist.

There are no easy choices but the least people should do is try to support the laws aimed at protecting civilians in times of war.

Israel does that. And so does the US. And we did so in WWII as well.

 

[PoS]

I don't disagree but making sure this doesn't spread is a worthwhile goal. If all it takes is a couple of carrier groups and some intel to make sure Iran doesn't do anything but bluster, I would call that a bargain.

I hope youre right, but with our horrible track record in that region, this could blow up in our faces.

It would be wrong to accuse Israel of war crimes considering the fact that they are not committing any.



If anyone causes trouble for the US because of our support for Israel, the solution to that problem is to have the US Air Force eliminate the people who are causing trouble for the US because of our support for Israel.

Double standard noted.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Double standard noted.

I doubt that I've employed any double standard.

What double standard do you think I've employed.

 

[PoS]

I doubt that I've employed any double standard.

What double standard do you think I've employed.

You are for war crimes against the Palestinians, but are against it with the Isrealis.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

You are for war crimes against the Palestinians,

That is incorrect. It is not a war crime for Jews to defend themselves from murderers.

 

[oneworld2]

What is this "only option" nonsense?

We were not choosing a single way of attacking Japan. We were attacking Japan on all fronts simultaneously. That included dropping atomic bombs on their military targets.



That's why we dropped the atomic bombs on military targets.



What is this "only option" nonsense?

We were not choosing a single way of attacking Japan. We were attacking Japan on all fronts simultaneously. That included dropping atomic bombs on their military targets.



That's why we dropped the atomic bombs on military targets.



Not likely given the fact that we did not attack civilians.

Any ease is likely to be due to the fact that we only bombed legitimate military targets.



That's why we dropped the atomic bombs on military targets.



That's why we dropped the atomic bombs on military targets.



No such question exists.



Israel has every right to kill anyone who resists their invasion.

Israel will not fire on people who do not resist.



Israel does that. And so does the US. And we did so in WWII as well.

I have learned that you are ,likely, the single worst offender for creating denial of reality postings. They are robotic like nonsense imo and built on possibly the single most biased perspective there is to hold.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

I have learned that you are ,likely, the single worst offender for creating denial of reality postings. They are robotic like nonsense imo and built on possibly the single most biased perspective there is to hold.

That is incorrect. I have never denied reality.

 

[ralfy]

Related:

 

[silent thinker]

This could get bigger pretty fast. I believe we should do what we can to prevent that.

I agree it is a big mistake. Unconditional backing of Isreal has opened the US up for another attack that will eventually happen. I feel that our elected officials on both sides are spreading more hate. There is no justification for killing over 5,000 innocent people.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

We are weak in the middle east because of our support for Israel.

We are weak in the Middle East because we stupidly supported and coerced Britain and France to “de-colonize” after world war 2.

About 90% of the problems wouldn’t exist if the British empire was still in charge

 

[samiam5211]

We are weak in the Middle East because we stupidly supported and coerced Britain and France to “de-colonize” after world war 2.

About 90% of the problems wouldn’t exist if the British empire was still in charge

yea, i'm sure everything would be fine if the British were still in charge.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

"President Biden’s trip to Israel on Wednesday will put him in a region where grief and fury are mounting, not only toward Israel, but also toward the United States, the world power that has declared unyielding support for its chief Middle East ally. ...many people across the region had come to view Israel’s war with Hamas — the Palestinian armed group that carried out a shocking attack on southern Israel more than a week ago, slaughtering 1,400 people — as an American-backed massacre of Palestinian civilians in the blockaded territory of Gaza.

Many Arabs view the American government as not only being indifferent to the agony of Palestinians living under Israeli occupation, but also complicit in it. American pledges of “ironclad” support for the country — and no-strings-attached security assistance — have stoked those feelings as Israel prepares for a ground invasion of Gaza. “There is tremendous anger in the Arab world, even by those who do not support Hamas,” said Nabil Fahmy, a former foreign minister of Egypt. “They are giving Israel a green light,” he said of Western powers, “and as this gets increasingly bloody, the West will have blood on its hands.”"

Link

Has Biden gone too far in his expressed support for Israel? He has begun tempering that support and it makes sense - we can't try to hold Israel accountable for their violence if we don't first acknowledge the toll that violence has taken on them. But then, it's possible, even likely, Isreal's going to to what it wants to regardless.

It's an awfully tricky situation. Biden has said what any normal president would say and the sentiment is probably felt by the vast majority of Americans. He's on pretty solid poltical ground here. But surely he would like to use this crisis as an opportunity to untie the Gordian knot of Isreali-Palestinian conflict. But is anybody listening? It's possible that as the violence continues, the opportunity he seeks may become more likely. It's also possible the perpetrators of the violence will find it politically expedient to continue it.

The article is right in some ways, although they try to dress the terms up in “well the Arab countries are uncomfortable with Israel’s treatment of civilians” because everyone knows Arabs are just big ol humanist softies amirite?

They don’t give a **** about Gazan civilians, they don’t really care about humanitarian causes except as a wedge against Israel because they know dumb American leftists will listen to it.

This is just ethnic hatred.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

yea, i'm sure everything would be fine if the British were still in charge.

“Fine” is a subjective judgement, I merely said it would be better

Lefties have a weird way of using language when they can’t make an argument. They will for example say “the war on drugs was a failure because people still use drugs” demanding perfection I guess they will never note drug use went down greatly during that time period.