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U.S. orders girls' locker room access for transgender Illinois student

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buck

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U.S. orders girls' locker room access for transgender Illinois student - Yahoo News

The U.S. government on Monday found that a Chicago suburban high school district discriminated against a transgender student and gave the school a month to provide full access to girls' locker rooms or lose federal funding.The student, who has not been named, and the American Civil Liberties Union, which brought a complaint on her behalf, applauded the findings, while the school district called them "serious overreach."
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This seems selfish on the part of the parents and the boy. While I can understand the boy really wants to feel normal, subjecting the 20 (or however many) girls on the team to be uncomfortable with, what is still physically a boy, changing and showering with them. If I were this boys parent, I would be accepting but still tell him him that he can't just think of himself and has to think of the other teammates and their parents. As a parent of one of the girls, I wouldn't want what is still physically a boy changing and showering with my daughter. After he has reassignment surgery, then I have no issues with him showering with the rest.
 
The girls will not be exposed to this transgender girl. In that article you linked it said transgender kids can use the correct locker room and shower privately. That says to me that nobody is showering together or exposing themselves to each other.
 
Alyssa T. said:
The girls will not be exposed to this transgender girl. In that article you linked it said transgender kids can use the correct locker room and shower privately. That says to me that nobody is showering together or exposing themselves to each other.
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That is currently what the school is doing:
The district says transgender students may use their gender-identified locker room if they change and shower privately.
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the DOE disagrees and says:
The government said a separate changing place was discriminatory because it subjected the student to stigma and different treatment.
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They are requiring the school to allow full access to the shower and changing rooms to keep receiving title 9 funds.
 
I still think the biggest mistake we are making is leaving this to the courts to figure out. Until we get some clear policy on the matter from legislation the courts will continue to make a mess of where transgender people fit into the more aged traditions of locker rooms, bathrooms, and whatever else designed based on the human physical factors of being male or female.
 
This would strike me as a state issue as opposed to a federal issue. Oh well.
 
buck said:
U.S. orders girls' locker room access for transgender Illinois student - Yahoo News

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This seems selfish on the part of the parents and the boy. While I can understand the boy really wants to feel normal, subjecting the 20 (or however many) girls on the team to be uncomfortable with, what is still physically a boy, changing and showering with them. If I were this boys parent, I would be accepting but still tell him him that he can't just think of himself and has to think of the other teammates and their parents. As a parent of one of the girls, I wouldn't want what is still physically a boy changing and showering with my daughter. After he has reassignment surgery, then I have no issues with him showering with the rest.
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The school has elected to forego $6 million in Federal funds.

I wonder what our founders would think about Federal blackmail to encroach on states' rights.
 
Luftwaffe said:
This would strike me as a state issue as opposed to a federal issue. Oh well.
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If presented as an "equal protection" or "privacy" issue then everything becomes a federal issue. See SSM and abortion.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
If presented as an "equal protection" or "privacy" issue then everything becomes a federal issue. See SSM and abortion.
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Yeah but doesnt marriage involve federal benefits (and thus, everyone must be equal under federal law per the fourteenth which would require the states to recognize those marriages)?

Bah, Im confused right now. Nvm me.
 
Luftwaffe said:
This would strike me as a state issue as opposed to a federal issue. Oh well.
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In a more perfect condition I would agree, but in practical terms of how this is being handled and would apply it would lead to conflict between States. Ultimately back to the courts is the probable conclusion of one State doing something drastically different based on a system of belief.
 
MaggieD said:
The school has elected to forego $6 million in Federal funds.

I wonder what our founders would think about Federal blackmail to encroach on states' rights.
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I didn't realize that. I was hoping they would, but then I don't live in Palatine to have to make up the difference through increased tax dollars. Hopefully this doesn't happen in Gurnee. My taxes are high enough. :)
 
This is one of those areas that I become conflicted over. I am strongly in favor of LGBT rights. I refer to transgendered people by their preferred pronouns and I have zero problems with transgendered people using the restroom of the gender with which they identify. And if a privately owned gym wants to allow transgendered women to change in the women's room, more power to them.

But this is a public school. Those girls HAVE to go there. And I get parents not wanting their teenage girls seeing a penis every day when they change and shower in gym class. Maybe a day will come when we don't care about stupid stuff like that. But we are not there yet. The transgendered girl has to be given a private place to change. Yes, that might be discriminatory and make her feel singled out. I feel for her. But it is what it is.
 
I see this as being a public accommodation case.
Just like the School must have ramps for handicapped students,
they must have special facilities for the gender confused.
Once the accommodation is in place, the handicapped individual has a choice to
us them or not, that is not important, only that they are provided if selected.
 
The OP link provided this little (separate but not equal?) gem:

The district says transgender students may use their gender-identified locker room if they change and shower privately.
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Why must only students that self identify as "transgendered" be offered private changing and showering facilities? That hardly seems to qualify as equal treatment. What about students that self identify as "shy", "confused", "obese" or "underdeveloped"?
 
BrewerBob said:
This is one of those areas that I become conflicted over. I am strongly in favor of LGBT rights. I refer to transgendered people by their preferred pronouns and I have zero problems with transgendered people using the restroom of the gender with which they identify. And if a privately owned gym wants to allow transgendered women to change in the women's room, more power to them.

But this is a public school. Those girls HAVE to go there. And I get parents not wanting their teenage girls seeing a penis every day when they change and shower in gym class. Maybe a day will come when we don't care about stupid stuff like that. But we are not there yet. The transgendered girl has to be given a private place to change. Yes, that might be discriminatory and make her feel singled out. I feel for her. But it is what it is.
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They could make all the locker rooms and showers private, that would be great. I would have loved that back in junior high and high school. Kids at that age can be pretty mean no matter what gender anyone is.
 
MaggieD said:
The school has elected to forego $6 million in Federal funds.
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That is a lot of money. Something tells me school life is going to become a lot more hostile for that transgendered girl.
 
Alyssa T. said:
They could make all the locker rooms and showers private, that would be great. I would have loved that back in junior high and high school. Kids at that age can be pretty mean no matter what gender anyone is.
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It would certainly cost less than $6 million dollars to do.
 
Luftwaffe said:
Yeah but doesnt marriage involve federal benefits (and thus, everyone must be equal under federal law per the fourteenth which would require the states to recognize those marriages)?

Bah, Im confused right now. Nvm me.
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Why is assigning federal benefits based on a state granted optional legal status considered equal protection? Shouldn't any person (everyone?) be able to designate someone as their SS survivor beneficiary?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Why is assigning federal benefits based on a state granted optional legal status considered equal protection? Shouldn't any person (everyone?) be able to designate someone as their SS survivor beneficiary?
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The fourteenth amendment opened up a can of worms.

I just occasionally forget that from time to time.
 
While I'm not getting any younger, I swear for the first time in my life I feel out-of-touch with the youth and changes in our society. The changes in the LGBT legal environment came rushing-in way faster than I ever anticipated. Quite honestly, it seems like a mess, as can be seen here.

I have a few gay & lesbian associates & friends, along with my wife having an inordinately high number of transvestite friends for some reason - which may be part of her Asian culture. Several of the gays & lesbians are switch-hitters, and a few have wavered back-and-forth in their sexual preferences, changing over the years.

I suppose there's a difference between "sexual preference" & "gender identity", but here's where I have the problem with one's "self identification" simply in verbal terms: "What if the individual changes their mind"? Teenagers have been know to be a bit flighty, you know. Do we swap them back to the other washroom, if they change their mind? What is the minimum time required to change one's mind? A year? A month? A day? Can an enterprising boy "change" for a bit, in order to get a sneak-peak of the girl's washrooms & locker room? Can the girls do the same?

It's for this reason that I'd tie legal gender identity to one's private parts: "So, you've decided you're actually a member of the opposite sex, and want those legal rights? No problem, there's a solution for you - but you need to get the operation to claim full legal status." I believe there should be specific legal requirements leading to one's gender status.

Otherwise, this all strikes me as arbitrary.
 
BrewerBob said:
It would certainly cost less than $6 million dollars to do.
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I hope so. I have no idea what it would cost, but there isn't anything wrong with having a small space for everyone to change and shower in private.
 
Alyssa T. said:
I hope so. I have no idea what it would cost, but there isn't anything wrong with having a small space for everyone to change and shower in private.
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That is likely where all of this could be heading,
but there are security risks with small lockable private areas.
 
It should be so simple.
If a person has testicles and a penis, he/she/it is male and showers with the males.
If a person has a vagina, he/she/it is female and showers with the females.

It really doesn't matter how they feel inside. It is the outside that shows during gym class.
 
longview said:
That is likely where all of this could be heading,
but there are security risks with small lockable private areas.
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Yes, I suppose, but I wouldn't want a lock really. Unless if that is like the doors for fitting rooms as stores. Anyway, from what I remember about that age, I would have preferred to shower and change in private.
 
MaggieD said:
The school has elected to forego $6 million in Federal funds. I wonder what our founders would think about Federal blackmail to encroach on states' rights.
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The Founders did struggle with setting up a central gubmint in the face of rather stiff state opposition, our Revolution almost failed several times as the States chose to support the troops only when the Brits threatened them directly. So I'd opine the Founders would REALLY wish they had the ability to tax like today. They would also be quite envious of the ability to withhold funding if the States refused to accept Court rulings. Imagine where the South would be if in 1964 the States could simply refuse to accept the Civil Rights Laws.

Oh wait, we went through that in 1864... :peace
 
Alyssa T. said:
Yes, I suppose, but I wouldn't want a lock really. Unless if that is like the doors for fitting rooms as stores. Anyway, from what I remember about that age, I would have preferred to shower and change in private.
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I think the security issues could be addressed, every solution will present other problems.
I think the school already met their accommodation requirement by providing a private space.
The fact that the student chooses not to use the provided private room is irrelevant,
but if still anatomically a male, must use the male facilities.
 
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