• Please read the Announcement concerning missing posts from 10/8/25-10/15/25.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of [W:185,311]

Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

Tell that to the families who buried their loved ones in California. What is it going to take? A nuke going off in NYC before you think ISIS is a threat worth destroying?

Wow, ISIS has you scared to death, don't they. Some homegrown terrorist kills fourteen people and you think it's WW3. It must suck to live this afraid all the time.
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

It must suck to live this afraid all the time.

As opposed to the fear inherent in those whose glib dismissal of mass murdering Islamists indicates an unwillingness to even think there is any problem?
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

That is why the UN should take responsibility for protection of the population and help it find its way into a stable system of democratic procedure.

Lol, democracy. You're still pimping that. The UN did it's job and Western powers have only themselves to blame for abusing their authority in Libya, both Russia and China have been clear on this. ;)
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

The difference here, of course, is that we're not at war with a fixed body of people, a military, or even a sovereignty. We're at war with an ideology.

All the fear-mongering rhetoric only serves to exacerbate the problem.

I don't know what it means to be "at war with an ideology," if anything. Finally, war is about killing people, whatever ideology they may promote or follow. Nazism was a supremacist ideology, like Islamic jihadism is, but being at war with that ideology meant killing enough of the proponents and followers of Nazism that the idea went down with them. Thuggee is another example. The British authorities who ruled India during the 19th century could be said to have been at war with the murderous ideology of thuggee. But it was by capturing and hanging enough of the men who followed that ideology--thugs--that they stamped it out.

You can use cliche phrases like "fear-mongering rhetoric" to deride the arguments of people who disagree with you, but that will not hide the plain fact that you want ISIS jihadists to have safe havens in cities where they do not need to fear being attacked by the U.S. It's hard to imagine what could do more to exacerbate the problem ISIS jihadists present than to give them sanctuaries from which they can plan and carry out the mass murders of even more innocent people.
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

As opposed to the fear inherent in those whose glib dismissal of mass murdering Islamists indicates an unwillingness to even think there is any problem?

Oh the problem is well understood, and you should stop supporting policies that create them.

Former Military Chief: Iraq War Was A 'Failure' That Helped Create ISIS
"We strategically marched in the wrong direction."

Former Military Chief: Iraq War Was A 'Failure' That Helped Create ISIS
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

I don't know what it means to be "at war with an ideology," if anything. Finally, war is about killing people, whatever ideology they may promote or follow. Nazism was a supremacist ideology, like Islamic jihadism is, but being at war with that ideology meant killing enough of the proponents and followers of Nazism that the idea went down with them. Thuggee is another example. The British authorities who ruled India during the 19th century could be said to have been at war with the murderous ideology of thuggee. But it was by capturing and hanging enough of the men who followed that ideology--thugs--that they stamped it out.

You can use cliche phrases like "fear-mongering rhetoric" to deride the arguments of people who disagree with you, but that will not hide the plain fact that you want ISIS jihadists to have safe havens in cities where they do not need to fear being attacked by the U.S. It's hard to imagine what could do more to exacerbate the problem ISIS jihadists present than to give them sanctuaries from which they can plan and carry out the mass murders of even more innocent people.

It's funny you mention using rhetoric to deride arguments of people who disagree with you, and then use hyperbole and dishonest rhetoric such as claiming as fact that one who disagrees with you wants safe haven cities for ISIS.

First off, our military involvement helped make the environment that ISIS evolved in. Because of our short-sighted use of military force, we helped bring about stronger and more extreme terrorist groups. Secondly, wanting to limit civilian causalities, to not just bomb civilian areas because we think there may be a terrorist or two there, does not mean that one wants safe havens for terrorists themselves. It means that we shouldn't carpet bomb civilian areas in hopes that we get a terrorist and acknowledging that the form of "scorched earth" policy has greater potential of exacerbating the situation than solving it.

You'll probably need to get smaller and more tactical than just bombing civilians if you want to move towards an actual solution.
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

As opposed to the fear inherent in those whose glib dismissal of mass murdering Islamists indicates an unwillingness to even think there is any problem?

There is a space between tick and tock. I don't deny the existence of ISIS, nor do I morn their death. What I am against is the method of how to deal with them. I don't think sacrificing civilians in order to kill a few terrorists is the way to go. In the long run I believe it works against our goals.
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

There is a space between tick and tock. I don't deny the existence of ISIS, nor do I morn their death. What I am against is the method of how to deal with them. I don't think sacrificing civilians in order to kill a few terrorists is the way to go. In the long run I believe it works against our goals.

You must have read the US intel reports.
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of [W:185,31

And they traveled, usually with their extended family.

No most of the time when they were conducting business it was them and their muscle. In fact when when they traveled with their family they were often in a sperate car. Maybe you don't realize this but most extremists are not real big on women's rights and tend to keep their wives and kids at home. Not out conducting business with them.

What exactly are you basing your claim off of.
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of [W:185,31

No most of the time when they were conducting business it was them and their muscle. In fact when when they traveled with their family they were often in a sperate car. Maybe you don't realize this but most extremists are not real big on women's rights and tend to keep their wives and kids at home. Not out conducting business with them.

What exactly are you basing your claim off of.

Reported drone strikes.
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

Oh the problem is well understood, and you should stop supporting policies that create them.

Former Military Chief: Iraq War Was A 'Failure' That Helped Create ISIS
"We strategically marched in the wrong direction."

Former Military Chief: Iraq War Was A 'Failure' That Helped Create ISIS

I was rather under the impression that it was Big Mo who created the quasi-religious ideology that motivates his warrior tribe.

Are you thinking that we somehow got ahold of a time machine and went back 1400 years or something?
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

I was rather under the impression that it was Big Mo who created the quasi-religious ideology that motivates his warrior tribe.

Are you thinking that we somehow got ahold of a time machine and went back 1400 years or something?

Nope, neither Lt. General Michael Flynn nor I think that. That's deflection though.
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

It's funny you mention using rhetoric to deride arguments of people who disagree with you, and then use hyperbole and dishonest rhetoric such as claiming as fact that one who disagrees with you wants safe haven cities for ISIS.

First off, our military involvement helped make the environment that ISIS evolved in. Because of our short-sighted use of military force, we helped bring about stronger and more extreme terrorist groups. Secondly, wanting to limit civilian causalities, to not just bomb civilian areas because we think there may be a terrorist or two there, does not mean that one wants safe havens for terrorists themselves. It means that we shouldn't carpet bomb civilian areas in hopes that we get a terrorist and acknowledging that the form of "scorched earth" policy has greater potential of exacerbating the situation than solving it.

You'll probably need to get smaller and more tactical than just bombing civilians if you want to move towards an actual solution.

I am glad to see you show that you, too, want to leave ISIS jihadists free to keep operating out of cities in Iraq and Syria, secure in the knowledge that the U.S. will never bomb them there. I have not seen anyone here advocate "carpet bombing" or a "scorched earth" policy--you conjured up that specter yourself so you could look noble arguing against it. It's predictable, too, that you would suggest the U.S. is to blame for creating ISIS. If U.S. military involvement created the environment that spawned ISIS and other terrorist groups, then I suppose less U.S. military involvement is desirable, in your view. I'm sure the jihadists agree with that view, because they know the U.S. could put paid to them with a heavy, determined application of military force.

A call for getting "smaller and more tactical" sounds wonderful. Sounds that way. But when jihadists are sheltering in cities of hundreds of thousands of people, it is nothing but a call for giving them sanctuaries where they are immune to attack, dressed up to make it sound clever and virtuous. Force will only make things worse. Arms are for hugging. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. If we only try harder to see things the jihadists' way, then peace will guide the planets, and love will steer the stars!
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

I am glad to see you show that you, too, want to leave ISIS jihadists free to keep operating out of cities in Iraq and Syria, secure in the knowledge that the U.S. will never bomb them there. I have not seen anyone here advocate "carpet bombing" or a "scorched earth" policy--you conjured up that specter yourself so you could look noble arguing against it. It's predictable, too, that you would suggest the U.S. is to blame for creating ISIS. If U.S. military involvement created the environment that spawned ISIS and other terrorist groups, then I suppose less U.S. military involvement is desirable, in your view. I'm sure the jihadists agree with that view, because they know the U.S. could put paid to them with a heavy, determined application of military force.

A call for getting "smaller and more tactical" sounds wonderful. Sounds that way. But when jihadists are sheltering in cities of hundreds of thousands of people, it is nothing but a call for giving them sanctuaries where they are immune to attack, dressed up to make it sound clever and virtuous. Force will only make things worse. Arms are for hugging. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. If we only try harder to see things the jihadists' way, then peace will guide the planets, and love will steer the stars!

Yeah well, a strong presidential candidate from the fringe right has.

In early December, Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, began saying that his military approach to ISIS would be "carpet bombing." He said during a speech in Iowa on Dec. 5 that "we will utterly destroy ISIS. We will carpet bomb them into oblivion. I don't know if sand can glow in the dark, but we're going to find out."
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

I am glad to see you show that you, too, want to leave ISIS jihadists free to keep operating out of cities in Iraq and Syria, secure in the knowledge that the U.S. will never bomb them there. I have not seen anyone here advocate "carpet bombing" or a "scorched earth" policy--you conjured up that specter yourself so you could look noble arguing against it. It's predictable, too, that you would suggest the U.S. is to blame for creating ISIS. If U.S. military involvement created the environment that spawned ISIS and other terrorist groups, then I suppose less U.S. military involvement is desirable, in your view. I'm sure the jihadists agree with that view, because they know the U.S. could put paid to them with a heavy, determined application of military force.

A call for getting "smaller and more tactical" sounds wonderful. Sounds that way. But when jihadists are sheltering in cities of hundreds of thousands of people, it is nothing but a call for giving them sanctuaries where they are immune to attack, dressed up to make it sound clever and virtuous. Force will only make things worse. Arms are for hugging. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. If we only try harder to see things the jihadists' way, then peace will guide the planets, and love will steer the stars!

Well since intellectual honesty doesn't seem to be part of your arguments, there is no more to say. No one wants to leave the terrorists free or give them haven. But some are apprehensive about blowing up cities of residential areas to maybe get a terrorist.

Put some boots on the ground, use small tactical groups to take down the terrorists and you'll greatly reduce the number of civilian casualties.
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

Nope, neither Lt. General Michael Flynn nor I think that. That's deflection though.

It's not a deflection at all.

We did not design the concept of Jihad, and that is a fact. If you are unwilling to deal with facts because you are only here to present an agenda, perhaps you should give them more consideration.
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

It's not a deflection at all.

We did not design the concept of Jihad, and that is a fact. If you are unwilling to deal with facts because you are only here to present an agenda, perhaps you should give them more consideration.

Much like those in favor for this mishandled war ignore the fact that after 14 years, trillions of dollars, thousands of lives, that we find ourselves worse off than before?

Facts.
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

It's not a deflection at all.

We did not design the concept of Jihad, and that is a fact. If you are unwilling to deal with facts because you are only here to present an agenda, perhaps you should give them more consideration.

No not at all, that predates the establishment of the US by a long shot. Do you know anybody that has claimed that jihad is an American creation. I'll accept our intelligence reports and commentary from Pentagon brass over a gardener any old day.
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

No not at all, that predates the establishment of the US by a long shot. Do you know anybody that has claimed that jihad is an American creation. I'll accept our intelligence reports and commentary from Pentagon brass over a gardener any old day.

You seem to have a most tenuous grasp of cause and effect.

The effect cannot come before the cause, and so we obviously did not cause ISIS. ISIS is a result of ideology and culture.
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

You seem to have a most tenuous grasp of cause and effect.

The effect cannot come before the cause, and so we obviously did not cause ISIS. ISIS is a result of ideology and culture.

That sir, is a most naïve statement, and inaccurate.
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

That sir, is a most naïve statement, and inaccurate.

:lamo

says the poster who turns every thread into some sort of lunatic conspiracy theory.
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

:lamo

says the poster who turns every thread into some sort of lunatic conspiracy theory.

Quite a defense of your previous claims, but I do understand why. ;)
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of [W:185,31

I'm sorry that you're scared. But it was fear that sold the Iraq war blunder. FDR had some advice on fear.

The scariest thing about the threat that Islam poses to us "Infidels" is that fact that we are so docile and meek in dealing with them. We could destroy their big population centers, their military infrastructures, and their economies, and never use a single nuclear weapon. In fact, practically speaking, nuclear weapons are obsolete and replaced by thermobaric weapons. These interesting fuel-air weapons can be configured to unleash all the destruction and damage of nuclear weapons, but without any release of radiation. With such weaponry we could effectively remove Islam from human experience, but we're too gutless and cowardly to do that. But, as we see, the Muslims aren't too gutless and cowardly to commit every kind of depraved torture and murder on every "Infidel" they can lay their hands on....

You can see it now... it's so obvious. We're going to have to fight these Islamo-Nazis for our very survival in the future, but why wait until they have nuclear weapons and the ballistic missiles to deliver them anywhere in the world?
 
Re: U.S. has mapped ISIS hiding spots, but won’t launch strikes for fear of civilian

Lol, democracy. You're still pimping that. The UN did it's job and Western powers have only themselves to blame for abusing their authority in Libya, both Russia and China have been clear on this. ;)
Russia and China are making accusations abut abuse of power? Is a serious response expected?
 
Back
Top Bottom