U.S.: Evidence shows Iran subversion in Iraq

[Moot]

Really? Did you even bother to read them? No where in them did it say Israel wanted to divide Iraq..

The Guardian article says theTurks believed Israel did want to divide up Iraq...

"...By supporting Kurdish separatists, Israel also risks alienating its Turkish ally and undermining attempts to create a stable Iraq. "If you end up with a divided Iraq it will bring more blood, tears and pain to the Middle East and you will be blamed," a senior Turkish official told Mr Hersh. ...

...Intel Brief, an intelligence newsletter produced by former CIA chiefs, noted early this month that the Israeli actions are placing increasing stress on their relationship with Turkey, which was already strained over the war. "The Turks are increasingly concerned by the expanding Israeli presence in Kurdistan and alleged encouragement of Kurdish ambitions to create an independent state." ....read
Israelis 'using Kurds to build power base' | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited

Intel Brief, an intelligence newsletter produced by former CIA chiefs noted that the Israelis actions in Kurdistan was straining it's relationship with Turkey. ....

Hersh's article contains an excerpt from the privately circulating intelligence newsletter 'Intel Brief' that reads: "Turkish sources confidentially report that the Turks are increasingly concerned by the expanding Israeli presence in Kurdistan and alleged encouragement of Kurdish ambitions to create an independent state…The Turks note that the large Israeli intelligence operations in Northern Iraq incorporate anti-Syrian and anti-Iranian activity, including support to Iranian and Syrian Kurds who are in opposition to their respective governments." ....read
Turks.US Daily News - Israel Enlarges Support of Northern Iraqi Kurds


Israel's trained proxy Kurdish commandos on Irans border probably doesn't set well with Iran anymore than it does the Turks. With this latest attack in Najaf by a Shiite cult faction, it is getting difficult to determine who is allied with whom. For instance, the Soldiers of Heaven are Shiite extremists who are allied with Sunni Bathists who are allied with Kurdish Shiite who are allied with Hizbollah who are allied with Syria who is allied with the Kurds who are allied with Israel who is allied with the US who is allied with.....Saudi Arabia who is allied with Arabs who are allied with the Palestinians who are allied with Hamas who are allied with Sunni Kurds who are allied to SCIRI who is allied with Iran who is allied with Russia and China. Or something like that.

 

[cherokee]

Look here.



The New Yorker : fact : content




Israelis 'using Kurds to build power base' | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited

In your snip from the New Yorker it only talks of the growing tensions because of Israel’s attacks on the Hamas with the "possibility of an independent Kurdistan". Again volker Show me where Israel has this plan to divide Iraq.


In your second snip from the guardian it says and I quote the "alleged encouragement of Kurdish ambitions to create an independent state."

How is this proof Israel wants to divide Iraq?
Do the words "possibility" and "alleged" translate into proof to you?

 

[cherokee]

Does anyone have a copy of this Israel plan to divide Iraq since this story was done in 2004. Also is Iraq divided today? Did the Israeli plan work?

 

[Moot]

Ahhh Volker you beat me to the punch. It's great when the evidence is on your side, isn't it?

 

[Volker]

In your snip from the New Yorker it only talks of the growing tensions because of Israel’s attacks on the Hamas with the "possibility of an independent Kurdistan". Again volker Show me where Israel has this plan to divide Iraq.

Ok, I will show you again.

In one such talk, one diplomat told me, Gul described Israeli activities, and the possibility of an independent Kurdistan, as “presenting us with a choice that is not a real choice—between survival and alliance.”

The New Yorker : fact : content

If he actually said so, which alliance did Mr. Gul talk about here in this context if not the aliiance between Turkey and Israel? Why should he question this alliance when talking about an independent Kurdistan if it was not about he is thinking the Israelis had such plan?

In your second snip from the guardian it says and I quote the "alleged encouragement of Kurdish ambitions to create an independent state."

How is this proof Israel wants to divide Iraq?
Do the words "possibility" and "alleged" translate into proof to you?

I didn't say something of prove, I said there are sources to backup the Wikipedia entry.

You didn't say something of prove.

Show me where the New Yorker Magazine and the Guardian say a damn thing about dividing Iraq.

 

[cherokee]

Ahhh Volker you beat me to the punch. It's great when the evidence is on your side, isn't it?

What evidence is that? Is this your evidence? Show me the "great" Israeli plan divide Iraq.. Show me where its started and how its been doing since 2004.

Posted by cherokee
Do the words "possibility" and "alleged" translate into proof to you?

 

[Volker]

Ahhh Volker you beat me to the punch. It's great when the evidence is on your side, isn't it?

Yes, it is :mrgreen:

 

[Gardener]

The amazing thing about the antisemites infesting this thread is their hypocricy. One would think that as far as an ideal is concerned, giving distinct groups of people self determination is a good thing. Indeed, they support it as long as that group is called Palestinian. The thought of Kurds having self-determination must be some nefarious Jewish plot though. :roll:


Make no mistake -- these things are motivated by irrational hatred. It is obvious in the way such things drag Jews into the equation at every opportunity and do so in a down right paranoid and incredibly hypocritical manner.

 

[Moot]

Does anyone have a copy of this Israel plan to divide Iraq since this story was done in 2004. Also is Iraq divided today? Did the Israeli plan work?

Apparently Intel Brief has an article about it. But since Intel Brief is a CIA newsletter I could only find the quote from a Turkish website (see previous post for link) But then I didn't really look that hard. And too I am not the one who needs further convincing, you are. So maybe you can find the Intel Brief newletter if you still need convincing.

Is Iraq divided today, you ask? No, not yet. But with violence escalating I'm guessing it happens before the next election or sooner.

Did the Israeli plan work, you ask? I think so. The Kurds seem very determined to gain autonomy and will be voting on a referendum this year. Iran has dibs on southern Iraq but could get bogged down with internal strife with other Shiite factions. The US may try to have a base in or near Mosul in Kurdistan if Iraq gets divided up. But since its mostly Sunni they may have to fight for it because a trilateral division would just leave the Sunni Anbar province and not even the Sunnis really want that.

 

[cherokee]

Apparently Intel Brief has an article about it. But since Intel Brief is a CIA newsletter I could only find the quote from a Turkish website (see previous post for link) But then I didn't really look that hard. And too I am not the one who needs further convincing, you are. So maybe you can find the Intel Brief newletter if you still need convincing.

This is very true I don’t believe your ridiculous story that Israel wants to divide Iraq.
You can’t prove it and I don’t believe it.....:2wave:

Is Iraq divided today, you ask? No, not yet. But with violence escalating I'm guessing it happens before the next election or sooner.

This violence you talk of is between the sunni and shia but I guess that’s part of the Israeli master plan to divide?. .:roll:

Did the Israeli plan work, you ask? I think so. The Kurds seem very determined to gain autonomy and will be voting on a referendum this year. Iran has dibs on southern Iraq but could get bogged down with internal strife with other Shiite factions. The US may try to have a base in or near Mosul in Kurdistan if Iraq gets divided up. But since its mostly Sunni they may have to fight for it because a trilateral division would just leave the Sunni Anbar province and not even the Sunnis really want that.

The Kurds are sitting back watching the sunni and shia kill each other off. Big deal from what I’ve seen the Kurds are the only ones who give a chit about their future.

Again would you care to show me just where Israel is involved? You cant or wont. Same chit goes for volker. You can’t prove Israel has a hand in any of it.

I guess next you and volker will start running around the room with your fingers stuck in your ears yelling "la la la la la I cant hear you!"...:roll:

 

[cherokee]

The amazing thing about the antisemites infesting this thread is their hypocricy. One would think that as far as an ideal is concerned, giving distinct groups of people self determination is a good thing. Indeed, they support it as long as that group is called Palestinian. The thought of Kurds having self-determination must be some nefarious Jewish plot though. :roll:


Make no mistake -- these things are motivated by irrational hatred. It is obvious in the way such things drag Jews into the equation at every opportunity and do so in a down right paranoid and incredibly hypocritical manner.

How very true.
It’s just a matter of time before the blame the sunni and shia fighting on the Jewish..........:roll:

 

[Volker]

The amazing thing about the antisemites infesting this thread is their hypocricy. One would think that as far as an ideal is concerned, giving distinct groups of people self determination is a good thing. Indeed, they support it as long as that group is called Palestinian. The thought of Kurds having self-determination must be some nefarious Jewish plot though. :roll:

Oh, I don't consider Seymour Hersh an anti-Semite. I've seen him reporting about what's going on there, he did not say, what he wants for Palestinians or for Kurds.

Make no mistake -- these things are motivated by irrational hatred. It is obvious in the way such things drag Jews into the equation at every opportunity and do so in a down right paranoid and incredibly hypocritical manner.

No, it's not irrational hatred, it is rather like searching for a good story what drives people like Seymor Hersh, I guess.

 

[Volker]

Again would you care to show me just where Israel is involved? You cant or wont.

We did so several times.

I guess next you and volker will start running around the room with your fingers stuck in your ears yelling "la la la la la I cant hear you!"...:roll:

Wow, and here I thought, this is what you do at the moment.

 

[Gardener]

Oh, I don't consider Seymour Hersh an anti-Semite. I've seen him reporting about what's going on there, he did not say, what he wants for Palestinians or for Kurds.

No, it's not irrational hatred, it is rather like searching for a good story what drives people like Seymor Hersh, I guess.

Seymor Hersh is quite obviously not participating in this thread, now is he? I realize you do not encumber yourself in any way by placing any limits on upon your ability to prevaricate , but any sensible person would realize I am not referring to Mr. Hirsh.

 

[cherokee]

We did so several times.

Wow, and here I thought, this is what you do at the moment.

You haven’t proven a damn thing........:roll:
Maybe you didnt see this, Maybe larger print will help the two of you.

Posted by cherokee
Do the words "possibility" and "alleged" translate into proof to you?

 

[Moot]

The amazing thing about the antisemites infesting this thread is their hypocricy. One would think that as far as an ideal is concerned, giving distinct groups of people self determination is a good thing. Indeed, they support it as long as that group is called Palestinian. The thought of Kurds having self-determination must be some nefarious Jewish plot though. :roll:


Make no mistake -- these things are motivated by rationalir hatred . It is obvious in the way such things drag Jews into the equation at every opportunity and do so in a down right paranoid and incredibly hypocritical manner.

Who exactly are you calling, "anti-semite", "things", "paranoid", "incredibly hypocritical" and "motivated by hatred"? Did they mention the word Israel or something?

Your intolerance for any discussion that involves Israel seems a bit obsessive and disruptive, Gardner. Are you sure you're staying within the forum rules with that kind of flame baiting trolling behaviour?

 

[Volker]

Seymor Hersh is quite obviously not participating in this thread, now is he? I realize you do not encumber yourself in any way by placing any limits on upon your ability to prevaricate , but any sensible person would realize I am not referring to Mr. Hirsh.

I don't know, if Mr. Hersh participates in this thread, I only know nicknames here. The articles were by him, so your suggestions logically should go in his directions, as long as you do not only try to troll in this thread.

 

[Volker]

You haven’t proven a damn thing........:roll:
Maybe you didnt see this, Maybe larger print will help the two of you.

Posted by cherokee
Do the words "possibility" and "alleged" translate into proof to you?

Does the word strawman says anything to you?

 

[Gardener]

Who exactly are you calling, "anti-semite", "things", "paranoid", "incredibly hypocritical" and "motivated by hatred"?

?

You.

deal with it.


Nice try at the nazi-style turnspeak btw. Itis your obvious obsession that drives you to vilify Jews at every turn. I am just reacting to it.

 

[cherokee]

Does the word strawman says anything to you?

Sure it does didn’t he play the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz?
Are you saying the Witch's Flying Monkeys are Israeli agents in disguise?

Are the two of you going to provide anything to back up your bullchit or are you guys just going to dance around the truth THAT you cant prove anything?

 

[Volker]

...

Did he say something like "I'm losing every debate, as soon as it comes to discussing facts, that's why I do the only thing I can and this is trolling"?

If not, he did not say the truth.

 

[Volker]

Sure it does didn’t he play the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz?
Are you saying the Witch's Flying Monkeys are Israeli agents in disguise?

Are the two of you going to provide anything to back up your bullchit or are you guys just going to dance around the truth THAT you cant prove anything?

What is prove to you, should I ask one of these agents to come here and tell about his plans? Try to be a little more realistic.

 

[cherokee]

What is prove to you, should I ask one of these agents to come here and tell about his plans? Try to be a little more realistic.

How about something with the totals of supplies or Israeli agents on the ground. Conformation from another source showing Israel has a plan to divide Iraq.
Some more then "possibility" and "alleged"...

 

[Volker]

How about something with the totals of supplies or Israeli agents on the ground. Conformation from another source showing Israel has a plan to divide Iraq.
Some more then "possibility" and "alleged"...

Maybe you come back in like 15 years or so when documents become declassified.

 

[cherokee]

Maybe you come back in like 15 years or so when documents become declassified.

You mean when the "alleged" documents are declassified going on the "possibility" said documents exist in the first place?