U.S. decries reported sexual abuse of Palestinian prisoners after graphic video aired on Israeli TV

[Ganondagan]

Eh, the same thing happens in any thread about Hamas atrocities. Cries of “but Israel” are inevitable.

Yes, and that's legitimate. Nothing can be understood without comparison. How can you say something is bad unless there is something to compare it to?

 

[X Factor]

Absolutely. The conversation has moved from the terrible crimes Hamas committed to the terrible crimes Israel is committing.

Israel’s haters have never needed a reason to excuse or justify Hamas.

Edit: To be clear, I’m not saying that about you or anyone specifically (well, there’s two that comes to mind but neither have posted to this thread yet).

 

[X Factor]

Yes, and that's legitimate. Nothing can be understood without comparison. How can you say something is bad unless there is something to compare it to?

It is interesting how often I’ve seen people say Oct. 7 didn’t happen in a vacuum but then pretend anything Israel does is just completely out of the blue.

 

[ClaraD]

This is horrendous. CNN has aired video of the rape of a Palestinian prisoner by guards. Five guards have been arrested.

But the human rights groups investigating say there have been many such cases and also incidents of prisoners bound so tightly that limbs had to be amputated.

This case only came to light because the victim was taken to a civilian hospital in life threatening condition.

A right wing politician shouted "we can do anything to them" in a cabinet meeting, justifying the attack.

U.S. decries reported sexual abuse of Palestinian prisoners after graphic video aired on Israeli TV

“We have seen the video, and reports of sexual abuse of detainees are horrific,” State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller said.

www.nbcnews.com

Either side doing this should result in consequences. Both sides have done it and it is disgusting.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Eh, the same thing happens in any thread about Hamas atrocities. Cries of “but Israel” are inevitable.

Now you're doing it right now.

That's bad. It's a bad thing when people downplay what Hamas does by bringing up Israel. And now you're doing a "but people in threads about Hamas".

This is like "but"-ception right now.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Yes, and that's legitimate. Nothing can be understood without comparison. How can you say something is bad unless there is something to compare it to?

Ok.

Lets compare it to how Ukraine is treating their prisoners of war and random civilians they've detained without any charges.

...oh dear...

...yikes. Yeah that's pretty bad. It looks even worse in comparison honestly. I think we can say raping prisoners to death and denying prisoners medical treatment until they slowly and painfully die (who are literally random civilians who haven't been charged with any crime) is bad.

 

[snakestretcher]

I expect Israel will deal with the problem. I'm pretty sure, however, that IDF prisoners are treated much worse and that Hamas and Hezbollah encourage the treatment.

Is that supposed to be an attempt at equivalence? 'Pretty sure' is meaningless, by the way. It's an opinion.

 

[JMB1911A1]

The difference is that Israel punishes those who commit abuses while Hamas and the Palestinian population celebrate them.

 

[multivita-man]

Either side doing this should result in consequences. Both sides have done it and it is disgusting.

This is true, but I think people already expressed their outage at Hamas in the days following October 7th. I don't think we're obligated to preface every criticism of Israel with a criticism of Hamas - most of us already expressed outrage at the attacks on Israeli civilians and the crimes against their captives. Moreover, there's a broader point embedded in threads like this one, which is that Israel has dropped enough ordnance on Gaza to level it. There's a point beyond which Israel can't claim self-defense. This is even beyond revenge. This is punishment out of malice toward all Palestinians, be they in Gaza or the West Bank.

 

[ClaraD]

This is true, but I think people already expressed their outage at Hamas in the days following October 7th. I don't think we're obligated to preface every criticism of Israel with a criticism of Hamas - most of us already expressed outrage at the attacks on Israeli civilians and the crimes against their captives. Moreover, there's a broader point embedded in threads like this one, which is that Israel has dropped enough ordnance on Gaza to level it. There's a point beyond which Israel can't claim self-defense. This is even beyond revenge. This is punishment out of malice toward all Palestinians, be they in Gaza or the West Bank.

we have to be careful that we don't stop demanding justice from both sides and respect for international law.

 

[Allan]

The difference is that Israel punishes those who commit abuses while Hamas and the Palestinian population celebrate them.

See Post 2. An Israeli cabinet member justifying this atrocity.

 

[ClaraD]

See Post 2. An Israeli cabinet member justifying this atrocity.

there is no justification for committing war crimes...on either side.

 

[Allan]

we have to be careful that we don't stop demanding justice from both sides and respect for international law.

Who's doing that?

 

[multivita-man]

we have to be careful that we don't stop demanding justice from both sides and respect for international law.

True, but consider the scale of what Israel has done to Gaza. That matters.

 

[Felis Leo]

These clearly constitute war crimes. As your article pointed out the Geneva Convention violations are so widespread they must be in line with Israeli state policy.

Well, yeah. This all comes from the top. Netanyahu literally put an avowed terrorist fascist, Itamar Ben-Gvir, in charge of Israel's state security to secure his razor-thin ruling coalition.

 

[ClaraD]

True, but consider the scale of what Israel has done to Gaza. That matters.

I don't know that this necessarily matters...they have a right to demand civilian hostages be released and to attack until that is accomplished...that said...what they don't have a right to do is to rape prisoners, to hold civilians as pow's, to torture, etc...nor does the other side. I am not in favor of one or the other. I certainly am not in favor of what Hamas did and am not in favor of what Israel is doing either. One can be truly against what both sides are doing.

 

[ClaraD]

Who's doing that?

the river to the sea calls on both sides, tells me that multiple actors are.

 

[cpwill]

This is horrendous. CNN has aired video of the rape of a Palestinian prisoner by guards. Five guards have been arrested.

But the human rights groups investigating say there have been many such cases and also incidents of prisoners bound so tightly that limbs had to be amputated.

This case only came to light because the victim was taken to a civilian hospital in life threatening condition.

A right wing politician shouted "we can do anything to them" in a cabinet meeting, justifying the attack.

U.S. decries reported sexual abuse of Palestinian prisoners after graphic video aired on Israeli TV

“We have seen the video, and reports of sexual abuse of detainees are horrific,” State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller said.

www.nbcnews.com

I am glad that Israel - unlike her enemies - forbids and prosecutes these kinds of abuses.

 

[Allan]

I am glad that Israel - unlike her enemies - forbids and prosecutes these kinds of abuses.

See Post 2.

 

[cpwill]

Don't be ridiculous. They need to be hit with the worst punishment imaginable for police or prison guards.

A few months of paid administrative leave followed by a transfer to another department.

OK. That's dark, but, you got me; I did laugh .

In my defense, I've never claimed I'm a good person.

 

[cpwill]

See Post 2.

Yup. Legislators sometimes say idiotic and gargoyles things.

Thankfully, this individual apparently does not set policy for the IDF or Israeli state on such matters.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

I expect Israel will deal with the problem. I'm pretty sure, however, that IDF prisoners are treated much worse and that Hamas and Hezbollah encourage the treatment.

prepare for disappointment

Israel had riots in support of the soldiers' right to rape prisoners.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

I am glad that Israel - unlike her enemies - forbids and prosecutes these kinds of abuses.

As long as Ben-Gvir is in charge, that is a very much "on paper" forbids and prosecutes than a meaningful protection.

While there were reports of abuse from Israeli prisons in the past, it was more the "this civilian was detained without having committed a crime and maybe beaten" kind of abuse. And in severe cases guards WERE disciplined or fired. Ever since Ben-Gvir got put in charge of this shitshow the game has changed.

This is systemic state sanctioned torture on a mass scale. There won't be any meaningful change until people like Ben-Gvir are removed from power.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

The difference is that Israel punishes those who commit abuses while Hamas and the Palestinian population celebrate them.

You are generous with your optimism.

An Israeli mob stormed the holding area to release the rapists

NGOs on Sde Teiman: Society that forgives rape legitimizes rape

"If Israeli society is forgiving about what happened, it will come back like a boomerang," ARCCI head Orit Sulitzeanu said, raising concerns about the Sde Teiman investigation.

www.jpost.com

Protests have broken out in support of the IDF suspects, including protests that culminated in mobs breaking into two IDF bases, and protesters clashing with IDF soldiers and journalists. A new protest organization sprung up in support of the soldiers, and a suspect was sent a fruit basket by supporters.​

 

[Ganondagan]

Is that supposed to be an attempt at equivalence? 'Pretty sure' is meaningless, by the way. It's an opinion.

Yes, it is an opinion, my opinion.