U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ[W:361]

[trblmkr]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

So what? Plus there is no evidence that Trump actually received anything of value from the Russians. Hillary did.

Please refer to post 222 for clarification.

 

[Fletch]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

That is your opinion. And you are entitled to it. But it does nothing to change what we already know as fact that
1- Russia interfered in our election
2- they helped Trump and aided his campaign and wanted him to win
3- Trump publicly invited the Russians to get involved in the campaign
4- when Russia did get involved via Wikileaks Trump was very appreciate and thankful and said he loved wikileaks very publicly
5 - members of the Trump campaign - some very senior members - attempted to collude with the Russians in this effort

Your opinion changes none of those facts.

Number 5 has not been proven. What has been proven is that Hillary successfully colluded with the Russians in the production of the dossier. Even you cant bury your head far enough in the sand to deny that fact. But if the Russians preferred trump to Hillary, so what? A lot of people did.

 

[haymarket]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

EVIDENCE that Trump KNEW the Russians had the mails?

Nothing in Post 165 nor in this post address the questions I asked.

And you know it.

You stated Trump KNEW THE RUSSIANS HAD THE EMAILS.

Where is rhe EVIDENCE?

And again.... Your continued attempts to conflate HILLARY EMAILS and the DNC hacking are as dishonest as they arw transparent.

You were provided with your answers.

If you opt - for reasons known only to you - to reject the answers - that is then on you as I have fulfilled my responsibility.

 

[Fletch]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

You nailed it. That is exactly what I'm talking about. Nothing to do with the election, or collusion. Just good old fashioned criminal activity. Deripaska paid Trump $900 million for a $400 million estate. Nobody does that without a reason. And since he tore it down, it wasn't for the value of the estate. What reason is left? Walks like a duck, talks...well you know how it goes.

So what was the reason? Unless all you have is innuendo.

 

[haymarket]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

Number 5 has not been proven. What has been proven is that Hillary successfully colluded with the Russians in the production of the dossier. Even you cant bury your head far enough in the sand to deny that fact. But if the Russians preferred trump to Hillary, so what? A lot of people did.

Yes it has with the attendance of the top Trump people at the meeting with the Russians and the email chain that preceded it.

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

You were provided with your answers.

If you opt - for reasons known only to you - to reject the answers - that is then on you as I have fulfilled my responsibility.

So, no EVIDENCE Trump KNEW the Russians had the emails.

And the ONLY thing Trump asked for was Hillary's EMAILS and nothing else.

Why the dishonest conflation?

 

[trblmkr]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

So what was the reason? Unless all you have is innuendo.

There is little innuendo. The amount Trump paid is a matter of record. That he made no improvements is a matter of record. The price Deripaska paid Trump is a matter of record. I only posit that no businessman of their wealth got there by throwing large sums of money away without good reason. I suggest the reason in this case was to launder the money. Unless less shown a more likely scenario, I will continue to believe it. High value properties have been a favored way of laundering cash for some time. What other reason would you propose for paying an extra $400M+ for an estate you then tear down?

 

[Athanasius68]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

1- the emails contained no smoking guns or great damage - which was why wikileaks and the Trump campaign saw the drip by drip release of them for over a month while they exaggerated and hyped the relatively minor contents. It was the political equal to the Chinese Death of a Thousand Cuts where no one tiny cut is significant by itself.

2 - The meeting attended by top Trump campaign officials to collude with the Russians to get dirt they were told the Russians had on Clinton proves otherwise.

3 - And his mockery contained an invitation to the Russians to get involved in the election.

1. So now wikileaks and Trump conspired on the timing of the leaks?
2. What Trump officials? Jr Trump? He was there for about 10 minutes. BTW-- that Russian lawyer worked for Fusion, the same outfit that was sending anti- Trump info to Clinton.
3. Russia needed an invite from Trump to screw with the election?

 

[MTAtech]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

That is the answer. When the facts exist that Mrs. Clinton accepted dirt from Russia about Trump, and it doesnt matter...

Well, it does matter. What you are saying is that getting information without the Russian authorities knowledge on Trump, is exactly the same as Putin gleefully handing over intelligence to the Trump team and instituting a misinformation campaign on Trump's behalf. Anyone can see the disparity unless the are a partisan tool.

 

[Fletch]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

There is little innuendo. The amount Trump paid is a matter of record. That he made no improvements is a matter of record. The price Deripaska paid Trump is a matter of record. I only posit that no businessman of their wealth got there by throwing large sums of money away without good reason. I suggest the reason in this case was to launder the money. Unless less shown a more likely scenario, I will continue to believe it. High value properties have been a favored way of laundering cash for some time. What other reason would you propose for paying an extra $400M+ for an estate you then tear down?

Well, when you get evidence of this supposed money laundering, let me know.

 

[Fletch]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

Well, it does matter. What you are saying is that getting information without the Russian authorities knowledge on Trump, is exactly the same as Putin gleefully handing over intelligence to the Trump team and instituting a misinformation campaign on Trump's behalf. Anyone can see the disparity unless the are a partisan tool.

Where do you get that from?

 

[trblmkr]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

Well, when you get evidence of this supposed money laundering, let me know.

See, that's why high value properties are used. Hard to prove in court, especially when one party is Russian. Not hard to believe it exists. When you have a better reason for wasting that kind of money, let me know.

 

[Fletch]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

See, that's why high value properties are used. Hard to prove in court, especially when one party is Russian. Not hard to believe it exists. When you have a better reason for wasting that kind of money, let me know.

I don't need to prove anything. You made the claim, the burden is on you.

 

[haymarket]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

1. So now wikileaks and Trump conspired on the timing of the leaks?
2. What Trump officials? Jr Trump? He was there for about 10 minutes. BTW-- that Russian lawyer worked for Fusion, the same outfit that was sending anti- Trump info to Clinton.
3. Russia needed an invite from Trump to screw with the election?

1 - I do not know if they conspired on the daily timing or not. Nor is it important either way. But no doubt we will find out and it will not be surprising if they did indeed conspire on that timing.
2- They went to the meeting colluding with Russians knowing what was promised to them. Nothing you can say changes that fact.
3- It does not matter what Russia needed or did not need in your opinion or mine. They reality is they did interfere in the election and they did so to help Trump get elected.

 

[Fishking]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

You nailed it. That is exactly what I'm talking about. Nothing to do with the election, or collusion. Just good old fashioned criminal activity. Deripaska paid Trump $900 million for a $400 million estate. Nobody does that without a reason. And since he tore it down, it wasn't for the value of the estate. What reason is left? Walks like a duck, talks...well you know how it goes.

And Saudi Arabia and Russia doesn't donate millions to the Clinton Foundation if there isn't something going on. Which is much more interesting than supposed overpaying for a property where the valuation is much more fluid.

 

[trblmkr]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

I don't need to prove anything. You made the claim, the burden is on you.

I didn't ask you to prove anything, just if you had a more likely reason for a Russian Oligarch to give Trump an extra ton of cash. And I said I had all the proof I needed to believe it.

 

[trblmkr]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

And Saudi Arabia and Russia doesn't donate millions to the Clinton Foundation if there isn't something going on. Which is much more interesting than supposed overpaying for a property where the valuation is much more fluid.

I am of the belief that no one gives anyone or any organization any significant amount without at least the expectation that they will likely do something positive in their behalf or in their interest. Hell, the 10 bucks a month I give to NPR isn't out of the goodness of my heart. It's so I have something intelligent to listen to on the way to work.

 

[Fishking]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

I am of the belief that no one gives anyone or any organization any significant amount without at least the expectation that they will likely do something positive in their behalf or in their interest. Hell, the 10 bucks a month I give to NPR isn't out of the goodness of my heart. It's so I have something intelligent to listen to on the way to work.

But even in your case you're doing it to get something that you want. Obviously Saudi Arabia and Russia aren't countries that are all about donating to help humanitarian crises and such.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

It is what they believed that is important because they acted on that belief to collude with the Russians.

That's utterly false, Papadopolous was completely shut down when he tried to set up meets multiple times. Again, you are jumping to conclusions through wishcasting and not using facts.

 

[haymarket]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

That's utterly false, Papadopolous was completely shut down when he tried to set up meets multiple times. Again, you are jumping to conclusions through wishcasting and not using facts.

He was stopped by Sessions at the one meeting. Yet we know that he did meet with Russians and we know that the email revelation was made to him and we know that Trump was aided by the Russians in his campaign after publicly asking for their help. That is NOT jumping to conclusions - its just recognizing reality.

 

[Athanasius68]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

Well, it does matter. What you are saying is that getting information without the Russian authorities knowledge on Trump, is exactly the same as Putin gleefully handing over intelligence to the Trump team and instituting a misinformation campaign on Trump's behalf. Anyone can see the disparity unless the are a partisan tool.

The only intelligence Putin handed over to anyone is some of the stuff that was in the dossier. And that went to Clinton, not Trump.

 

[iguanaman]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

Counter-measures for what? For political party hacking? Sorry, but those are private clubs that are responsible for their own cyber security. Regulating fake news, news, and social media activity? Sorry, no. We aren't China that puts up firewalls on their own citizens. This is just one giant ruse for the government to censor the internet. If a few ****ty Russian ads is enough to break our democratic process then we have bigger problems than Russia, and they are all internal.

So it is your assertion that the Russian hacking along with the trolls and bots peppering social media with propaganda is our fault? If you are even in a minority with those views we indeed have internal problems. In fact we have a crisis of belief in our country. You seem to be ready to surrender to Putin.

 

[Athanasius68]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

He was stopped by Sessions at the one meeting. Yet we know that he did meet with Russians and we know that the email revelation was made to him and we know that Trump was aided by the Russians in his campaign after publicly asking for their help. That is NOT jumping to conclusions - its just recognizing reality.

Except that Papandaopouous (Lets call him Pap for short) only spoke to somebody who said he knew somebody...

 

[apdst]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

Right? I mean...seriously. These are very basic facts and these loonies just continue to make up whatever they want. It's really astounding to me that there as so many deluded individuals.

Do you think the Russian Connection is the propaganda that John McCain warned about?

 

[apdst]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: U.S. authorities identify six "Russian" officials in DNC hack: WSJ

The false meme that never dies. :roll:

Left wing lies.