Two-thirds would struggle to cover $1,000 emergency...

[Visbek]

Every time you all create a new freebie to make yourselves feel better you want those of us earning money to pay for it. Basically, you think there is class warfare? Your damn right there is. I have already reached my maximum point. I've already decided every dollar that my taxes are increased, I cut my charitable giving by that same amount. Oh, I'll send the charities that I give to a note that explains why my contribution is reduced year over year but I'm not taking any more hits.

You DO know that federal taxes have dropped significantly since the 1980s, yes?

Average effective tax rates, 1979 = 22%
Average effective tax rates, 2011 = 17.6%

Individual dropped from 11% to 8.4%

Payroll tax rates were around 6.8% in 1979; went up to above 8% in the 1980s (thank you Ronald Reagan) and were back down to 6.7% in 2011.

Average effective corporate tax rates went from around 3% to 2%.

Historical Average Federal Tax Rates for All Households | Tax Policy Center

Sales taxes haven't gone up much, and were mitigated slightly by Internet retailers evading sales tax collection.

The federal government has spent decades slashing all sorts of taxes -- income taxes, capital gains taxes, estate taxes. Obama basically increased top marginal tax rates by ~3%. Since that kicks in on income over $400,000 for individuals, and is at a whopping 39%, I hardly see how that will break top earners.

As such, I'm left scratching my head over what tax increases are killing your family vacations.

Is it fair for me to have to tell my daughter and her sister that we have to take less Disney or beach vacations? Is it fair for me to cut back on their allowances?

1) #FirstWorldProblems

2) Exactly how much are you giving them for an allowance? If you cut their allowance by $5 per week, that's a whopping $260 per year.

If you so desperately need to save $520 a year by cutting back your kids' allowance, then does that mean you're in the group that does not have $1000 in cash ready for an emergency?

 

[Winchester]

At the beginning of every year, I hear all the people talk about how much they are getting back in the "tax refund." The problem? Most of those talking about the thousands they are getting back aren't getting a refund. They are getting a redistribution of income. The EITC is nothing but a wealth redistribution plan benefiting those the breed before they can afford to feed them. Do you know why so many are living in poverty? Do you know who is to blame for it? Look in the mirror, YOU ARE! That's right, you and all those bed wetting liberals that think they are doing the poor a favor with all these hand out programs, you are helping them you are screwing them.

You make them dependent upon government. You rob them of their independent and drive. YOU cause the downward spiral of poverty.

Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime.
Give a man one fish each day, he'll vote Democrat the rest of his life.

You do realize the EITC was a conservative program?

The earned income tax credit (EITC), first proposed in the early 1970s, was signed by President Ford. It was later substantially expanded by President Reagan, who deemed it “the best anti-poverty, the best pro-family, the best job creation measure to come out of Congress” (Snyder 1995).

The Earned Income Tax Credit and the Child Tax Credit: History, Purpose, Goals, and Effectiveness | Economic Policy Institute

 

[Winchester]

You still don't get it. The college education that you want to give away, isn't free. It's paid for by someone else who earned it. I know it makes you feel good to give things away but give away your own money. If you want to give away free college, open YOUR checkbook. Stay out of mine. Do you know why veterans are homeless? And I say this as someone with 21 years of service. Those that are homeless veterans will tell you. They are homeless because they made bad decisions. Do you think that military cannot get an education? There are university classes on every duty station, even remote ones. Military can take advantage of these at little or even no cost. But you, knowing so much better think that giving them a "free" college education will solve their problems.

State universities have always been subsidized, lot less now than when we went.

 

[Winchester]

You still don't get it! Free college does not come from the government. It comes from the hard working wage earners across this country that pay taxes. That's the problem. You all on the left think that the government pays for it. It doesn't. Every time you all create a new freebie to make yourselves feel better you want those of us earning money to pay for it. Basically, you think there is class warfare? Your damn right there is. I have already reached my maximum point. I've already decided every dollar that my taxes are increased, I cut my charitable giving by that same amount. Oh, I'll send the charities that I give to a note that explains why my contribution is reduced year over year but I'm not taking any more hits.

Is it fair for me to have to tell my daughter and her sister that we have to take less Disney or beach vacations? Is it fair for me to cut back on their allowances? Trim a little off the grocery budget? I'll spell it out clearly... I AM NOT GIVING ANY MORE.

Sure it's fair. Also a good lesson in that one shouldn't blow money on Disney until the taxes have been paid. Also if one has to cut back on vacations and groceries when taxes go up a bit one is living too close to the edge financially.

 

[Celebrity]

Sure it's fair. Also a good lesson in that one shouldn't blow money on Disney until the taxes have been paid. Also if one has to cut back on vacations and groceries when taxes go up a bit one is living too close to the edge financially.

Gotta put some more dough in that tax-exempt savings account.

 

[Southern Dad]

I for one do open my checkbook; I pay taxes and donate.

Further, broader support for higher education (and post-HS vocational education) is not just an individual benefit, it's a social benefit as well.

Everyone benefits from a well-educated populace. Employers have better-trained employees; citizens will make better decisions when better educated. How many people in this very thread are saying that a major issue is the lack of... wait for it... financial literacy? How are people supposed to develop that, by reading a web page on their own time?

And it should not surprise anyone that the level of education sufficient to be a good worker, or a better informed citizen, is not the same in 1956 as in 2016.



And presumably, zero years researching issues like homelessness and veterans.

The National Coalition for Homeless Veterans believes that the answer is complex... and not very individual. A lot of it is linked to PTSD and issues with substance abuse. It's also connected to poor incomes, expensive housing, lack of family support, and the difficulties transferring skills acquired in the military to civilian jobs.

By the way, without looking it up! How many vets are homeless? Are they homeless at a lower or higher rate than the general population? What are the demographics of homeless vets? What's the average amount of time they spend being homeless? What percentage have serious mental illnesses?



Some can, some can't. If a vet is suffering from PTSD, for example, that's obviously going to impede their ability to learn after service, let alone hold down a civilian job.

Taking a handful of classes while in service is certainly not the equivalent of 4 years in college.

Subsidizing college education certainly won't fix a lot of issues facing vets, but it's hard to see how it would hurt.

No, it isn't. That's a load of horsecrap the left has been trying to peddle. First of all, academia can't even get everyone to graduate from high school. Do you know what giving away college educations does? It cheapens college educations. When even the janitor has a college degree, that means that high school graduate is at a disadvantage to get a job, and the high school drop out? Totally screwed. But that's okay, you've got some welfare program in mind for them, I'm sure.

You know nothing about college education in the military. Nothing. You really sure learn about it before posting such dumb crap. Many, many enlisted get their degree while in the service.

 

[Southern Dad]

You DO know that federal taxes have dropped significantly since the 1980s, yes?

Average effective tax rates, 1979 = 22%
Average effective tax rates, 2011 = 17.6%

Individual dropped from 11% to 8.4%

Payroll tax rates were around 6.8% in 1979; went up to above 8% in the 1980s (thank you Ronald Reagan) and were back down to 6.7% in 2011.

Average effective corporate tax rates went from around 3% to 2%.

Historical Average Federal Tax Rates for All Households | Tax Policy Center

Sales taxes haven't gone up much, and were mitigated slightly by Internet retailers evading sales tax collection.

The federal government has spent decades slashing all sorts of taxes -- income taxes, capital gains taxes, estate taxes. Obama basically increased top marginal tax rates by ~3%. Since that kicks in on income over $400,000 for individuals, and is at a whopping 39%, I hardly see how that will break top earners.

As such, I'm left scratching my head over what tax increases are killing your family vacations.



1) #FirstWorldProblems

2) Exactly how much are you giving them for an allowance? If you cut their allowance by $5 per week, that's a whopping $260 per year.

If you so desperately need to save $520 a year by cutting back your kids' allowance, then does that mean you're in the group that does not have $1000 in cash ready for an emergency?

That's just it, I AM NOT CUTTING. What I will cut is my charitable giving dollar for dollar if my taxes go up.

 

[Southern Dad]

You do realize the EITC was a conservative program?

Yes, I do. So what. Is that important to you? To cast the blame on the Republicans? It's a leech program and it needs to end.

 

[Southern Dad]

Sure it's fair. Also a good lesson in that one shouldn't blow money on Disney until the taxes have been paid. Also if one has to cut back on vacations and groceries when taxes go up a bit one is living too close to the edge financially.

Not going to happen. Like I said, I'll cut back on charitable giving dollar for dollar to offset any tax increases. We can call it, I gave at the office. Trust me, I don't live close to the edge. I'm debt free. It's about fairness. I'm tired of every liberal around thinking they have a great idea on how to spend my money.

 

[Celebrity]

No, it isn't. That's a load of horsecrap the left has been trying to peddle. First of all, academia can't even get everyone to graduate from high school. Do you know what giving away college educations does? It cheapens college educations. When even the janitor has a college degree, that means that high school graduate is at a disadvantage to get a job, and the high school drop out? Totally screwed. But that's okay, you've got some welfare program in mind for them, I'm sure.

You know nothing about college education in the military. Nothing. You really sure learn about it before posting such dumb crap. Many, many enlisted get their degree while in the service.

Why do you treat education like a commodity? You cannot cheapen something that is free. Placing something at an arbitrary location on a scale of 0 cost to excessive cost doesn't increase or decrease its worth. Education is very worthwhile for individuals, but that doesn't mean we should increase spending on education. We should increase spending on education because that's what we want in a society which invests in education. Your choice if you want to ignore the increased demand for skilled workers in technical fields.

I get it, education and affordable health care aren't sexy enough for you. You want an awards ceremony so you can measure the worth of your charitable donation by putting smiles on faces. You expect employers will want to use the financial girth to copy and paste their values into other people's lives at will, because it's not ok for the government to do it for everyone.

Making college freely available does not give away degrees ubiquitously, if anything the first step in the process would be weeding out students who were not prepared to go to college, even at the cost of $0.

That's just it, I AM NOT CUTTING. What I will cut is my charitable giving dollar for dollar if my taxes go up.

:lamo so in other words, one way or another you'll be giving away money for free?

 

[Southern Dad]

Why do you treat education like a commodity? You cannot cheapen something that is free. Placing something at an arbitrary location on a scale of 0 cost to excessive cost doesn't increase or decrease its worth. Education is very worthwhile for individuals, but that doesn't mean we should increase spending on education. We should increase spending on education because that's what we want in a society which invests in education. Your choice if you want to ignore the increased demand for skilled workers in technical fields.

I get it, education and affordable health care aren't sexy enough for you. You want an awards ceremony so you can measure the worth of your charitable donation by putting smiles on faces. You expect employers will want to use the financial girth to copy and paste their values into other people's lives at will, because it's not ok for the government to do it for everyone.

Making college freely available does not give away degrees ubiquitously, if anything the first step in the process would be weeding out students who were not prepared to go to college, even at the cost of $0.



:lamo so in other words, one way or another you'll be giving away money for free?

High School Diplomas are free. What are they worth in today's world?

 

[DifferentDrummr]

Various "tweekings" of the FIT designed to retain Progressiveness in the US Tax System, up to and including wild swings in tax rates, have not resulted in comparable swings in revenue

View attachment 67201997

Instead, it's fairly flat. That's because people follow their incentives, and those at the top have the most ability to do so. ...

Proves nothing.

That's a two-variable chart, attempting to explain a reality that contains hundreds of variables.

Anywho...



That Americans can't cover a $1,000 emergency indicates that we, as a people, deserve low growth and high unemployment because we are too $(#*%*ing stupid to be trusted with the worlds' largest economy.

To be "trusted?" Where did this come from!?

And who does deserve the world's trust in economic stewardship? You? :lol:

 

[DifferentDrummr]

High School Diplomas are free. What are they worth in today's world?

No they aren't, at least according to your logic: The taxpayers had their money "stolen" (or whatever) to pay for everyone's high school educations.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

High School Diplomas are free. What are they worth in today's world?

That is an absolutely ridiculous comparison. Even if you charged for a high school education it would not have anymore value in the workplace because unskilled jobs have largely been automated. Thus in order to earn more money in the workforce, you must be extensively educated or trained in skills that there are a demand for. High School provides a foundation to build that skilled education upon. The expense of college has absolutely nothing to do with how marketable a job skill is. That is dictated by what jobs are in demand in an economy and the skills required to do them. Whether an education is expensive or free is irrelevant to that. For example, you could make a degree in Computer Science free and you would not reduce the pay for IT jobs because the employers that need skilled IT people need those skills and how much an employee paid for those skills is irrelevant to that. Moreover, even if it were free, not everyone has the ability to master those skills anyway. Educating more people in those in demand skills is only a plus for the economy.

 

[Winchester]

Yes, I do. So what. Is that important to you? To cast the blame on the Republicans? It's a leech program and it needs to end.

Nope not important to me at all, you just seemed to be blaming the liberals/democrats for it. I rarely play the partisan blame game unless to try and set the record straight.

 

[Winchester]

Not going to happen. Like I said, I'll cut back on charitable giving dollar for dollar to offset any tax increases. We can call it, I gave at the office. Trust me, I don't live close to the edge. I'm debt free. It's about fairness. I'm tired of every liberal around thinking they have a great idea on how to spend my money.

Is it okay when conservatives have a great idea on how to spend your money?

 

[Southern Dad]

That is an absolutely ridiculous comparison. Even if you charged for a high school education it would not have anymore value in the workplace because unskilled jobs have largely been automated. Thus in order to earn more money in the workforce, you must be extensively educated or trained in skills that there are a demand for. High School provides a foundation to build that skilled education upon. The expense of college has absolutely nothing to do with how marketable a job skill is. That is dictated by what jobs are in demand in an economy and the skills required to do them. Whether an education is expensive or free is irrelevant to that. For example, you could make a degree in Computer Science free and you would not reduce the pay for IT jobs because the employers that need skilled IT people need those skills and how much an employee paid for those skills is irrelevant to that. Moreover, even if it were free, not everyone has the ability to master those skills anyway. Educating more people in those in demand skills is only a plus for the economy.

Do you think that a college education doesn't make a candidate for a job more valuable? The college degree tells the employer that you were willing to put forth the time and treasure to further your education. My undergraduate degree is in Computer and Information Sciences. I do not work in that field. I'm in executive management. My having a degree just told the employer that I was a person who finishes what he starts and could achieve it. Why do I not work in IT? Simple, by the time my military career was over COBOL, FORTRAN, and other wonderful things that I learned were obsolete. IN the Army I didn't work in IT either. I was a 13A.

 

[Southern Dad]

Nope not important to me at all, you just seemed to be blaming the liberals/democrats for it. I rarely play the partisan blame game unless to try and set the record straight.

Do you agree that the EITC is nothing more than an income redistribution plan?

 

[Southern Dad]

Is it okay when conservatives have a great idea on how to spend your money?

I don't want them spending my money either. They aren't the ones that keep saying they want to increase my taxes. That's the Democrats. Of course, Gary Johnson wants taxes to be voluntary except the Fair Tax (think national sales tax).

 

[Celebrity]

Do you think that a college education doesn't make a candidate for a job more valuable? The college degree tells the employer that you were willing to put forth the time and treasure to further your education. My undergraduate degree is in Computer and Information Sciences. I do not work in that field. I'm in executive management. My having a degree just told the employer that I was a person who finishes what he starts and could achieve it. Why do I not work in IT? Simple, by the time my military career was over COBOL, FORTRAN, and other wonderful things that I learned were obsolete. IN the Army I didn't work in IT either. I was a 13A.

FORTRAN might be obsolete in a very narrow sense of application development with a programming language, but I know of people in the class of 2012 who were trained to use it for computation.

 

[Southern Dad]

FORTRAN might be obsolete in a very narrow sense of application development with a programming language, but I know of people in the class of 2012 who were trained to use it for computation.

When I was at University of Maryland we were using punch cards. The IBM's that we had on our desks were less powerful than my Apple Watch. I'd say that my undergraduate degree is a bit out of date.

 

[Winchester]

Do you agree that the EITC is nothing more than an income redistribution plan?

Absolutely, it's welfare built right into the tax code. Granted it's tied to working and having kids.

 

[Winchester]

I don't want them spending my money either. They aren't the ones that keep saying they want to increase my taxes. That's the Democrats. Of course, Gary Johnson wants taxes to be voluntary except the Fair Tax (think national sales tax).

Well if they want to spend w/o paying for it right now it's not much better except that you don't have to pay for it... we'll just let the millennials do that for us.

 

[Celebrity]

God damn, the America I'm inheriting is a pile of garbage costing < $1,000 with a bunch of medicare bills to pay for old farts.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Well, it's government, so, those two things are not mutually exclusive.



I'm not rationalizing corporatism (which is part of, but not a synonym for, fascism). I'm pointing out that it's not Capitalism, which has markets operate without government tilting the balance towards favored companies or industries. Certainly its not unrestrained Capitalism, which would suggest a much higher economic freedom score than we currently enjoy.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk

Name ONE thing that has restrained capitalists.