Two-thirds would struggle to cover $1,000 emergency...

[ludin]

It seems like there are an incredibly large number of people who will continue to blame the working poor for all their ills even when it gets to the point that NINETY FIVE PERCENT of the jobs are super low pay.

proof or evidence for this claim? the median family income in the US is about 53k a year.
which pretty much shoots down your theory of 95% of the jobs are low income.

They'll stick to their dickensian entitlement until the last dog is hung. They cannot even comprehend the possibility that the system threw the working class overboard 30 years ago.

you evidently do not know what entitlement means.

so here it is.

the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment
the fact of having a right to something

 

[Texmex]

Mickey...you are very much a "I've got mine; screw you" type of guy.

It makes sense to identify yourself as a conservative. That is the core of American conservatism.

And the kind of guy who like to brag about it, show off his magnificent life for all to see. I've worked with this kind of guy before. He did keep the machine shop laughing.

 

[ludin]

Many have the family before they end up making that little. Things do happen. You all act as if life never changes except for those who are irresponsible.

there are some outliers that occur, but for the majority of people they pick bad choices in life.
I mean really who works at mcdonalds for 10+ years?

if you seriously can't do anything else but work at mcdonalds for 10 years not only that
but work at mcdonalds for 10 years and not be a manager at that point then there is something on you.

my brother worked at mcdonalds for like 3 months and they were ready to make him a supervisor.
he quit because he hated it but that is beside the point.

 

[Middleground]

No, the real solutions are often the ones that are the most difficult, the ones that will make people the least happy, but are the most necessary to actually solve the problem. That's why things don't actually get fixed, that's why we keep slapping bandages on things and treating the symptoms, not the problems, because people are running on emotions, not intellect.

Things never get fixed if one does not have an understanding of all sides. You can force people to do things you think right, but it will never work in the long run.

 

[Cephus]

Many have the family before they end up making that little. Things do happen. You all act as if life never changes except for those who are irresponsible.

Yes, it happens if something goes wrong and that's a different thing than people who *NEVER* make more than that and still make the bad decision to go have children when they cannot afford them.

 

[Cephus]

It's not always bad decisions.

Which decisions are not bad? Not getting an education? Doing drugs? Joining gangs? Committing crimes? Going to prison? Having children out of wedlock? Which one of these isn't a bad decision when it comes to living a financially successful life?

 

[Cephus]

Things never get fixed if one does not have an understanding of all sides. You can force people to do things you think right, but it will never work in the long run.

There are things that work and things that do not. There's a difference between solving a problem and coddling someone who thinks they just deserve to have things they have not earned. You're just being emotional. I'm being rational.

 

[polgara]

I had a family when I was bringing home less than that. Because we budgeted, because we lived on less than we made, we tithed and saved the whole way through it. It wasn't magic - it was discipline, planning, and limiting our consumption.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk

Greetings, cpwill. :2wave:

I remember when $20,000 a year was an excellent salary for someone right out of high school who was applying for a secretarial job, and if you worked hard, they promised you periodic raises. At that time, our house payment for a brand new, just built, 3-bedroom ranch in a nice area was $189 a month! And we had to practically promise our firstborn child to the bank to get our loan application approved - they were much stricter back then, and they didn't approve of you having any large debt, like a $50 a month car payment! :mrgreen: Not so today, though. You can't even rent a room for a month in a fleabag motel today for that amount!

And, like you, we managed to save, and some of that money was spent to take our children to Disney World once for a vacation back then, which was a dream come true for them! It's not surprising that the middle class, which is the backbone of this country, is disappearing, and with automation replacing humans, it's bound to get worse, sad to say. Our dollar just doesn't go as far as it used to, and it hits the poor the hardest!.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Which decisions are not bad? Not getting an education? Doing drugs? Joining gangs? Committing crimes? Going to prison? Having children out of wedlock? Which one of these isn't a bad decision when it comes to living a financially successful life?

Unforeseen medical catastrophes, being outsourced, death of a spouse, natural disasters, being in the military (do you know how many active duty military families are on food stamps?)...you seem genetically incapable of even comprehending that there are circumstances outside of elective decisions.

I'm done with you, I am not here to teach remedial courses in being a human being.
If you lost your soul or someone took it, that's your own bad decision.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

proof or evidence for this claim? the median family income in the US is about 53k a year.
which pretty much shoots down your theory of 95% of the jobs are low income.



you evidently do not know what entitlement means.

so here it is.

the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment
the fact of having a right to something

That's the trouble with median statistics.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

show that their job was outsourced to begin with.
so you have a problem with your argument right there.

nope no sense of entitlement at all. you evidently don't know what the word even means.
PS you don't get to make up your own definitions.

You feel entitled to feeling smug about your idiotic narrative about the working poor.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

show that their job was outsourced to begin with.
so you have a problem with your argument right there.

nope no sense of entitlement at all. you evidently don't know what the word even means.
PS you don't get to make up your own definitions.

What do you MEAN "show that their job was outsourced?"
You're not aware of the fact that large numbers of blue collar jobs fled the country and you want a graph??

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment
the fact of having a right to something

The whole "takers vs makers" narrative is founded upon a sense of entitlement!

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

show that their job was outsourced to begin with.
so you have a problem with your argument right there.

nope no sense of entitlement at all. you evidently don't know what the word even means.
PS you don't get to make up your own definitions.

job outsourcing in america - Google Search

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

wow where do you think that comes from? Medicaid, etc ..?
it comes from the government hello?

this is a nitpick and you would be wrong.
the tax payers are not subsidizing them either by the same argument.

either way you are wrong so the argument is not invalid.

It is not walmart, mcdonalds job to make sure you can pay your bills. that is your job.
they offer low skill jobs to low skill workers. which means the pay is not going to be that great.

neither the government nor taxpayers are subsidizing walmart or anything else so the argument still stands.

Both food stamps AND Medicaid were originally conceived of as primarily a means of helping people on an emergency basis.
They were NOT meant to become a backstop used by corporations to cut their labor overhead.
The very fact that a company tucks applications for both of these into their HR pack means that these companies rely upon these programs to OFFSET low wages, and the fact that the majority of new jobs in this country in the last decade or so ARE low wage service jobs means that more and more companies just use these programs as a CRUTCH.

So post your articles, it doesn't change the fact that in a robust middle class economy, even an entry level job should be able to allow a working person to put food on the table without resorting to an emergency program as a matter of routine.
Where we differ is in our definitions. Your inner dialogue tells you that it's okay to dispense with these programs altogether and that there is nothing wrong with clear cutting the job market of decent paying jobs for the middle class because, screw them, they must have all made bad decisions. :lamo

Sure, half the workforce just decided to play hookey and become bums because why not? :lamo

 

[Middleground]

There are things that work and things that do not. There's a difference between solving a problem and coddling someone who thinks they just deserve to have things they have not earned. You're just being emotional. I'm being rational.

No, coddling is not part of the equation and I have no idea why you'd think that. Trying to understand other positions only increases one's knowledge and intellect.

 

[calm]

It was not long ago that the "complaint" was that the "Capitalists" had borrowed/spent too much money and brought to world to near financial collapse.

Then, we were told that it was imperative for the "Capitalists" to reign in their spending and get their house in order.

At the same time, the Capitalists set out to assist the consumer to do the same thing that the Capitalists or Financial Terrorists had "wrongly" done a few years earlier and encouraged consumers to spend beyond their means and actually facilitated the spending with auto loans rather than mortgage loans.

In my mind ..... Thank God somebody was spending money because it created work.

I strongly suggest ..... that after everybody has spent every dime they have, they should create work by throwing their chewing gum wrappers onto the street which will bring out the street sweepers with a create a job program.

Calm

 

[MorrisDay]

Look, I dislike anyone who is able-bodied but chooses not to work. In fact, it irritates the hell out of me. But is all reality, they are not the biggest fish to fry nor. In any society, there will always be the 'do-nots,' and it's best to just accept it and address the problems that are fixible. And when you really think about it, ever since the big tax cuts to the rich, the biggest welfare cases are them. Do you not think it's wrong that businesses ride the wave of operation in a country that offers them infrastructure and a society that generally has money to spend? Why should they pay a smaller % of tax than the people that help keep them in business? Especially now that it's been uncovered that many hide their income? Why does that not irritate the **** out of you?

Like I said, people just want their fair shake.

I guess I'm ok with that but the big federal government anti-business liberals irritate me more.

 

[ludin]

That's the trouble with median statistics.
View attachment 67201696

Nope there is no trouble at all with median income. it is very good indication of what
most americans are making in their job. yea you are using data that is 4 years old you are a little out of date.

 

[ludin]

You feel entitled to feeling smug about your idiotic narrative about the working poor.

again you don't know what the word entitled means and this does not address anything in my argument.
so you either can't back up what you are saying or you didn't have an argument to begin with.

so please show that their jobs were outsourced like you claimed.

 

[ludin]

The whole "takers vs makers" narrative is founded upon a sense of entitlement!

yes the takers are founded from a sense of entitlement of what I am still trying to figure out.
I spent 10+ years working to get where I am today. it wasn't handed to me no one just popped up and said here it is.

I got tired of working 10 hour jobs so I decided to take a different course for myself.
finished my 4 year degree and it has paid off in spades.

 

[ludin]

Both food stamps AND Medicaid were originally conceived of as primarily a means of helping people on an emergency basis.
They were NOT meant to become a backstop used by corporations to cut their labor overhead.
The very fact that a company tucks applications for both of these into their HR pack means that these companies rely upon these programs to OFFSET low wages, and the fact that the majority of new jobs in this country in the last decade or so ARE low wage service jobs means that more and more companies just use these programs as a CRUTCH.

well they aren't a crutch for corporations. so again you really don't know what you are talking about.
no it means that their employee's qualify for those programs. why? because evidently they don't have the skill or knowledge
to not work at walmart or to find work that pays more than 9 bucks an hour.

it is not walmarts job to ensure that you make so much. they have a job that pays X dollars an hour. mostly for people that don't have the skill
or knowledge to do more than that.

So post your articles, it doesn't change the fact that in a robust middle class economy, even an entry level job should be able to allow a working person to put food on the table without resorting to an emergency program as a matter of routine.

I did post the article. this is your opinion this is not a fact. the job pays what the skill level and market of the job demands no more no less.
if there are 1m people lining up to flip burgers then the pay is low. if there are only 10k lined up to make lobster bisque then the pay is way higher than
the guys flipping burgers.

Where we differ is in our definitions. Your inner dialogue tells you that it's okay to dispense with these programs altogether and that there is nothing wrong with clear cutting the job market of decent paying jobs for the middle class because, screw them, they must have all made bad decisions. :lamo

No where we differ is that I am using an actual dictionary to define the term and you are making one up to try and suit your argument.
so you lose on that battle. you don't get to make up definitions to words. that is why we have dictionaries to tell us what the words mean.

there are over 5.5 million jobs in the US currently. there are plenty of good paying jobs out there if you have the education required to get them.
you want to be paid buck bucks for little or no education or skill. sorry that isn't the way it works nor has it ever worked that way.

Sure, half the workforce just decided to play hookey and become bums because why not? :lamo

it isn't half the work force only about 2.2% of hour workers make federal minimum wage. which is basically nothing.
the majority of those people either never graduated high school or only have a high school diploma.

4-Year vs. 2-Year College Degrees: How Does the Pay Compare?

50% of 4 year degree students will earn 40k a year with less have 5 year experience.
with 10 years of experience the pay jumps to 75k or so.

More than half of middle-class kids fail to earn bachelor's degrees - Mar. 25, 2015

right here is why a good portion of income is lower as well.
less skill + less knowledge = low pay.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

again you don't know what the word entitled means and this does not address anything in my argument.
so you either can't back up what you are saying or you didn't have an argument to begin with.

so please show that their jobs were outsourced like you claimed.

You're right, I wasn't fully accurate, you're not only speaking from a position of entitlement, you're also speaking from privilege.
Sorry ludin, but it does address your entire argument. You have no conception, either because of inheritance or because of good fortune (to which I sincerely say three cheers and good for you) what it's like to be working poor.
That is why you tend to lump the working poor in with the truly lazy and incorrigible, because to you, there's absolutely no difference!

That's not an argument, it's just my opinion. I would not dream of trying to get you to agree with my opinion, or to see any validity in my opinion, I'm just stating it because there are a lot of you out there.
It's a social disease.

Just so you understand my position, I think poverty SHOULD suck. It should be unpleasant, it should be embarrassing and it should be painful. That's because I do agree that there is no better motivator to get out of poverty.
Where you and I differ is that I believe that there should be MORE than enough EASILY ACCESSIBLE opportunities for working poor to improve their lot any way possible, because I view that as a wise investment in our future, and I view the dearth of said opportunities as fertile ground for the disintegration of civilized society.

You happen to believe that there ARE plentiful opportunities, I say that they are shrinking at an alarming rate and becoming so scarce as to be a sad joke.

That's primarily because I benefited FROM such opportunities as a former member of the working poor long ago.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

More than half of middle-class kids fail to earn bachelor's degrees - Mar. 25, 2015

HELLO:

About one-third of middle class students who dropped out told the Education Department they left due to financial considerations, about the same rate as those from other income groups, said Nate Johnson, head of Postsecondary Analytics, a higher education research and consulting firm.

Student loan debt is well over a trillion dollars today. My tuition at UCLA in 1982 was pretty much couch change.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

well they aren't a crutch for corporations. so again you really don't know what you are talking about.
no it means that their employee's qualify for those programs. why? because evidently they don't have the skill or knowledge
to not work at walmart or to find work that pays more than 9 bucks an hour.

No, it means wages have remained flat while living costs have skyrocketed.
When I was a youngster it was actually possible to eke out an existence, even on a minimum wage job.
It wasn't pretty but it afforded me the chance to take advantage of quite a few opportunities for advancement.
For instance, I was able to afford college on a minimum wage job.