Two completely different realities

[jaypatriot]

You never pose "fair questions" so I wish you would drop that line of BS because you're not fooling anybody.

Hear what Scott Adams has to say about it:

[video]https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/08/21/scott_adams_brain-dead_race_hoaxer_joe_biden_is_the_biggest_asshole_ in_america.html[/video]

Like Strother Martin said in "Cool Hand Luke": "What we have here is a failure to communicate."

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Good examples of anecdotal stories that people latch on to in order to make a broad political point.
As in "I have a cousin whose friend's aunt went to the hospital with Covid symptoms and she died because they could not find a ventilator for her. It is Trump's fault not enough ventilators were in the hospital. He's guilty of every death in hospitals because not enough equipment was provided by Trump".

We don’t need anecdotal stories though. There are over 180k dead and 11% unemployment.

We have data. You have the My Pillow guy.

 

[Luce]

I believe it is very difficult to take someone seriously who has the word "antifa" in their handle.
It suggests radical thinking that is a danger to our society.

Being against fascism is dangerous to society?

 

[jaypatriot]

Pretty sure nobody gives a crap what Scott Adams has to say about anything.

Actually, Scott Adams could be considered a modern-day age. You most likely have not heard of his new book, "Loserthink".
If you did and read it or listen to it you would probably become more adept at using your common sense when thinking about almost insoluble problems. Everyone should give it a look.

from the Amazon book page:

From the creator of Dilbert and author of Win Bigly, a guide to spotting and avoiding loserthink: sneaky mental habits trapping victims in their own bubbles of reality.

If you've been on social media lately, or turned on your TV, you may have noticed a lot of dumb ideas floating around.

"We know when history will repeat and when it won't."
"We can tell the difference between evidence and coincidences."
"The simplest explanation is usually true."

Wrong, wrong, and dangerous!

If we're not careful, loserthink would have us believe that every Trump supporter is a bigoted racist, addicts should be responsible for fixing the opioid epidemic, and that your relationship fell apart simply because you chewed with your mouth open.

Even the smartest people can slip into loserthink's seductive grasp. This book will teach you how to spot and avoid it--and will give you scripts to respond when hollow arguments are being brandished against you, whether by well-intentioned friends, strangers on the internet, or political pundits. You'll also learn how to spot the underlying causes of loserthink, like the inability to get ego out of your decisions, thinking with words instead of reasons, failing to imagine alternative explanations, and making too much of coincidences.

Your bubble of reality doesn't have to be a prison. This book will show you how to break free--and, what's more, to be among the most perceptive and respected thinkers in every conversation.

 

[Luce]

Actually, Scott Adams could be considered a modern-day age. You most likely have not heard of his new book, "Loserthink".
If you did and read it or listen to it you would probably become more adept at using your common sense when thinking about almost insoluble problems. Everyone should give it a look.

I liked him better when he was a funny cartoonist.

 

[jaypatriot]

And you live in Oregon? I'm surprised you can walk, you've got huge balls.

Thank you. In my younger days, people of a particular gender have said that about me.

 

[jaypatriot]

I’m sorry you’re afraid Black people will get to vote.

But: my solution means *every* vote counts. Your solution, as you so eloquently explained, is dedicated to voter suppression.

Gee, dunno why I’d want to get rid of the EC.

Did you happen to forget Obama was elected twice because of the overwhelming black vote?
WHo else in history has received over 90 percent of the black vote?

 

[jaypatriot]

We don’t need anecdotal stories though. There are over 180k dead and 11% unemployment.

We have data. You have the My Pillow guy.

Why not just blame Trump for everything that is happening you don't like?
Like the two hurricanes heading for the Gulf. If Trump hadn't backed out of the Paris Climate Accord, there would not be such dangerous weather.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Did you happen to forget Obama was elected twice because of the overwhelming black vote?
WHo else in history has received over 90 percent of the black vote?

No, I get it - you don’t think Black people should have access to voting.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Why not just blame Trump for everything that is happening you don't like?
Like the two hurricanes heading for the Gulf. If Trump hadn't backed out of the Paris Climate Accord, there would not be such dangerous weather.

Because I don’t have to invent things, I can just point to the bungled covid response.

 

[Luce]

Did you happen to forget Obama was elected twice because of the overwhelming black vote?
WHo else in history has received over 90 percent of the black vote?

And so?

 

[Aunt Antifa]

And so?

He’s going to tell us it “proves” Black people are racists or some other dumb conservative anti-logic logic.

 

[Luce]

He’s going to tell us it “proves” Black people are racists or some other dumb conservative anti-logic logic.

I hope so. I've been enjoying the "BIDEN PICKED A WOMAN OF COLOR AND NEWSOME WILL TOO UNNNNNNNNNG" threads.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

I hope so. I've been enjoying the "BIDEN PICKED A WOMAN OF COLOR AND NEWSOME WILL TOO UNNNNNNNNNG" threads.

White guys seem to think Black people doing *anything* is dangerous for the country.

Excepting building the whole thing as slaves.

 

[Luce]

White guys seem to think Black people doing *anything* is dangerous for the country.

Excepting building the whole thing as slaves.

Thing is, I'm not going to listen to a Trump voter when they tell me what's bad for the country, because they are bad for the country.

 

[Kyle Phoenix]

And they think all of these problems will go away once Biden is elected. I somehow recall that same sentiment back in 2008 when so many voters were breathlessly awaiting the great Social Justice Warrior and Community Organizer ever to take the oath of office in 2009.

Although I disagree with a lot of what you have said, on this I actually agree. Even if Biden wins, Republicans will be back in 2024 or 2028 and will bring many of the policies and positions Trump has now back with them. Trump has won the primaries with 94% of the votes so whatever happens to Trump, he's definitely changed the Republican party for good and 30-40% of the country is going to vote for him no matter what.

Democrats don't seem to grasp this yet and somehow think a Biden Presidency is going to make everything better. More probably, the best case scenario is it is a temporary respite from the confusion of recent years but that's it.

 

[Paradoxical]

We aren’t that polerized. A small niche is losing power and going through those death throes. Look at polling on masking, testing, Trump’s handling of covid, etc. There isn’t a split, but a super majority that thinks Trump and his voters are nuts.

Remove the EC, and the GOP will have to compete nationally and either create a platform that means something to voters now or they become irrelevant.

There are two scenarios. The one that I hope for is that Trump wins in a landslide and loses the house and the senate. That would kill of the extremists such as yourself and most of the posters here.

The other is that Biden somehow wins and if that happens, America will immediately sink into a great depression with the only plan the Democrats have to get us out to tax the wealthy and corporations drastically, which will make matters all that much worse. If the Dems win, America is screwed for decades to come. the depression will make all others seem like child's play. I can tell you that conservatives look at Biden as a weak old fool and Harris as a Marxist bitch and they will have no respect or cooperation from conservatives at all.

 

[post]

No, everyone is NOT looking at the same picture. From what I have seen of libs they are not quoting any news source, not even a bad one. They are commenting on some lie a politician or somebody on this forum said. Joe Biden is still lying about what Trump said about Charlottesville, and some of the libs here are repeating it.

Until the left stops lying nothing is going to change.

Oh, stop! Just stop!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/05/08/very-fine-people-charlottesville-who-were-they-2/

Fact Checker Analysis
The ‘very fine people’ at Charlottesville: Who were they?
By Glenn Kessler
May 8, 2020 at 3:00 a.m. EDT


“You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group … There were people in that rally — and I looked the night before — if you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day it looked like they had some rough, bad people — neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest, and very legally protest.”

— President Trump, Aug. 15, 2017

“I was talking about people that went because they felt very strongly about the monument to Robert E. Lee, a great general.”

— Trump, April 26, 2019

....But there were only neo-Nazis and white supremacists in the Friday night rally. Virtually anyone watching cable news coverage or looking at the pictures of the event would know that.

It’s possible Trump became confused and was really referring to the Saturday rallies. But he asserted there were people who were not alt-right who were “very quietly” protesting the removal of Lee’s statue.

But that’s wrong. There were white supremacists. There were counterprotesters. And there were heavily armed anti-government militias who showed up on Saturday. “Although Virginia is an open-carry state, the presence of the militia was unnerving to law enforcement officials on the scene,” The Post reported.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...ottesville-timeline/?itid=lk_inline_manual_31

....Two revealing Facebook videos posted by the group have been deleted but were obtained by The Fact Checker. One, titled “The Truth about Charlottesville,” was posted on Aug. 12, immediately after law enforcement shut down the rally. It lasts about 25 minutes, and it is mostly narrated by Joshua Shoaff, also known as Ace Baker, the leader of AWR. Members of other militia groups also speak in the video.

There’s no suggestion the militias traveled to Charlottesville because of the Lee statue, though late in the video a couple of militia members make brief references to the Confederate flag and Confederate monuments. (The 207-page independent review commissioned by Charlottesville also makes no mention of peaceful pro-statue demonstrators.).....

....In recent weeks, Trump has echoed the language he used regarding the Charlottesville attendees to encourage protests against social distancing orders. “These are very good people, but they are angry,” Trump tweeted on May 1. In other tweets, he urged governors to “liberate” states.

That’s the language of militias, McCord said — code for liberation from a tyrannical government. And who has been showing up at the rallies opposing shutdown orders? Armed militias associated with the Patriot movement.

The White House did not respond to a request for a comment on our findings.
The Pinocchio Test

The evidence shows there were no quiet protesters against removing the statue that weekend. That’s just a figment of the president’s imagination. The militia groups were not spurred on by the Confederate statue controversy. They arrived in Charlottesville heavily armed and, by their own account, were prepared to use deadly force — because of a desire to insert themselves in a dangerous situation that, in effect, pitted them against the foes of white supremacists.

Trump earns Four Pinocchios.
Four Pinocchios

Talk page link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally

Above is link to discussion of supporting sources permitted in this article.:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally#Defenses_of_Trump_and_rebuttal
....
Defenses of Trump and rebuttal
.....

 

[Aunt Antifa]

There are two scenarios. The one that I hope for is that Trump wins in a landslide and loses the house and the senate. That would kill of the extremists such as yourself and most of the posters here.

The other is that Biden somehow wins and if that happens, America will immediately sink into a great depression with the only plan the Democrats have to get us out to tax the wealthy and corporations drastically, which will make matters all that much worse. If the Dems win, America is screwed for decades to come. the depression will make all others seem like child's play. I can tell you that conservatives look at Biden as a weak old fool and Harris as a Marxist bitch and they will have no respect or cooperation from conservatives at all.

Oh no conservatives are gonna whine if they don’t get their way.

 

[post]

Although I disagree with a lot of what you have said, on this I actually agree. Even if Biden wins, Republicans will be back in 2024 or 2028 and will bring many of the policies and positions Trump has now back with them. Trump has won the primaries with 94% of the votes so whatever happens to Trump, he's definitely changed the Republican party for good and 30-40% of the country is going to vote for him no matter what.

Democrats don't seem to grasp this yet and somehow think a Biden Presidency is going to make everything better. More probably, the best case scenario is it is a temporary respite from the confusion of recent years but that's it.

The problem is the right has never permitted anything, as far as the status quo, even on the center line, let alone to the left of it.

Consider how bent out of shape Trump supporters' reactions are to professional opinions about Trump's and their own mental and emotional health... i.e., psychiatrists and psychologists, versus their own "standards"...

The Koch Brothers’ Covert Ops | The New Yorker
The Koch Brothers’ Covert Ops | The New Yorker
Covert Operations
billionaire brothers ..waging a war against Obama.
By Jane Mayer
August 23, 2010

...At the lectern in Austin, however, Venable—a longtime political operative who draws a salary from Americans for Prosperity, and who has worked for Koch-funded political groups since 1994—spoke less warily. “We love what the Tea Parties are doing, because that’s how we’re going to take back America!” she declared, as the crowd cheered. In a subsequent interview, she described herself as an early member of the movement, joking, “I was part of the Tea Party before it was cool!” ....

Venable honored several Tea Party “citizen leaders” at the summit. The Texas branch of Americans for Prosperity gave its Blogger of the Year Award to a young woman named Sibyl West. On June 14th, West, writing on her site, described Obama as the “cokehead in chief.” In an online thread, West speculated that the President was exhibiting symptoms of “demonic possession (aka schizophrenia, etc.).” The summit featured several paid speakers, including Janine Turner, the actress best known for her role on the television series “Northern Exposure.” She declared,....
....

Consider the ACA... the Dems invited negotiation, conceded to a structure permitting 20 percent private profit with guarantees of
that profit in the early years after enactment to encourage insurer participation in an untried concept insuring affordably those with
pre-existing conditions, shored up with a mandate required to discourage "free riding".

The Dems were negotiating with themselves despite having sixty senate votes.

Not a single republican voted for the ACA, and Rubio later quietly spiked the participation incentive payments, screwing some
of the insurers to sabotage incentives for broad insurer participation, especially in rural counties.

The courts properly settled the Rubio sabotage, but long after the effect was higher premiums and less policy choices.
Hold the poor hostage, "way to go"!

https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hblog20200427.34146/full/
Supreme Court Rules That Insurers Are Entitled To Risk ...www.healthaffairs.org › hblog20200427.34146 › full
Apr 28, 2020 - Insurers will receive billions in unpaid risk corridors payments, but it could ... While insurers received a resounding win on an ACA issue, and the Court ... statutes that permits a damages suit in the Court of Federal Claims, and ...

So, because the right is manipulated to believe their political interests and ideology is an actual match to the priorities and
ideology of Koch Industries, and Dems insist on showing their supporters they can work with "the other side", this is what hey deliver,
and the right shrieks that it is "socialism on the road to communism".

Quote by Gore Vidal: “There is only one party in the United States, t...”

....“There is only one party in the United States, the Property Party … and it has two right wings: Republican and Democrat. Republicans are a bit stupider, more rigid, more doctrinaire in their laissez-faire capitalism than the Democrats, who are cuter, prettier, a bit more corrupt — until recently … and more willing than the Republicans to make small adjustments when the poor, the black, the anti-imperialists get out of hand. But, essentially, there is no difference between the two parties.”

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

You wrote: "Think of Q as Trumps brown shirts, it will only get worse from here."

Now you are accusing Trump supporters as behaving like NAZI Brown Shirts.
Isn't that the kind of rhetoric that inflames one side or the other.?
Is that helpful to having a sane and respectful discussion?

Either Trump supporters have the balls to go against Trump and denounce his support of a far right group, or they should have the balls to admit that they support the far right.

Im not going to sugar coat reality for them.

 

[Paradoxical]

Oh no conservatives are gonna whine if they don’t get their way.

I am just stating reality. Neither one of them are any good at all. Complete disasters

 

[WCH]

You're too scary to be considered serious.

I'll take that as a compliment. I've become a wee bit pessimistic as of late.

 

[post]

There are two scenarios. The one that I hope for is that Trump wins in a landslide and loses the house and the senate. That would kill of the extremists such as yourself and most of the posters here.

The other is that Biden somehow wins and if that happens, America will immediately sink into a great depression with the only plan the Democrats have to get us out to tax the wealthy and corporations drastically, which will make matters all that much worse. If the Dems win, America is screwed for decades to come. the depression will make all others seem like child's play. I can tell you that conservatives look at Biden as a weak old fool and Harris as a Marxist bitch and they will have no respect or cooperation from conservatives at all.

I am just stating reality. Neither one of them are any good at all. Complete disasters

What is it like, to afford yourself the luxury to believe whatever pleases you? It cannot be as challenging as informing yourself. I don't get as much sleep as I'd like.
because there aren't enough hours in the day. I have to make the time to inform myself. I resent having to inform others who are going to ignore the facts, anway.

Facts are impervious to partisan propaganda. Where the rubber meets the road. ..

First Trump Admin. fiscal year began 10/01/17. In the prior fiscal year, debt increase was $671 billion. Stock buybacks by publicly traded corps., post late 2017 corporate tax cut amounted to $2 trillion by the end of 2019. Capital investment actually declined in the same period.

Pre-Trump, debt increased an average $56 billion per month
During the 29 months between 10/01/2017 and 02/25/2020, average monthly debt increase = $108 billion

The corporate stock buybacks stimulated only this.:

Trump touts stock market's record run, but who benefits? - Reuters
FEB 5, 2020 / 5:10 AM /
Trump touts stock market's record run, but who benefits?

..While pensions and retirement funds were lifted by the rise in stock markets, the president has avoided talking about one key point about who really benefits when the market rallies: Most of the gains go to the small portion of Americans who are already rich.

That’s because 84% of stocks owned by U.S. households are held by the wealthiest 10% of Americans, according to an analysis of 2016 Federal Reserve data by Edward Wolff, an economics professor at New York University. So when the stock market has a blockbuster year - such as the nearly 30% rise in the S&P 500 benchmark index in 2019 - payoff primarily to people who are already rich.

Why Biden's plan to scrap Trump's tax reform leaves markets unfazed |
Why Biden's plan to scrap Trump's tax reform leaves markets unfazed
OPINION CONTRIBUTOR 08/13/20
..
Rather, they expanded hiring over time, viewing wages as a variable cost, while utilizing the existing capital stock more intensively.

Thereafter, capital expenditures slowed in 2015 amid plummeting oil prices but recovered in 2017 in anticipation of passage of the TCJA. But the impact proved fleeting, as businesses scrapped spending plans in 2018-19 due to heightened uncertainty from the U.S.-China trade conflict. Instead, mainstream businesses used the savings for share buybacks and dividends. ....

The Fed - Distribution: Distribution of Household Wealth in the U.S. since 1989

Summed up, Trump presides over a huge wealth transfer to the already wealthiest who happen to be the important Trump party donors
who direct Trump's and McConnell's priorities... notice how little else has actually been passed by the senate and signed by Trump of any significant
economic benefit to the bottom 90 percent.
Trump ramped up the rate of debt increase because the tax cuts did not actually stimulate the economy, the extra $52 billion EACH MONTH of increasing federal borrowing PAID FOR the tax cuts, temporarily. EVERYBODY OWES A PIECE OF THAT DEBT INCREASE, but only the wealthiest primarily benefited from the personal and corporate tax cuts.

Incresasing rate of debt accumulation amounts to a large campaign contribution to Trump.

 

[post]

There are two scenarios. The one that I hope for is that Trump wins in a landslide and loses the house and the senate. That would kill of the extremists such as yourself and most of the posters here.

The other is that Biden somehow wins and if that happens, America will immediately sink into a great depression with the only plan the Democrats have to get us out to tax the wealthy and corporations drastically, which will make matters all that much worse. If the Dems win, America is screwed for decades to come. the depression will make all others seem like child's play. I can tell you that conservatives look at Biden as a weak old fool and Harris as a Marxist bitch and they will have no respect or cooperation from conservatives at all.

Look at the graphs in this post. Extend the courtesy to share links to what influences you to post that Biden, Ms. Harris, and Ms. Pelosi will bring about what you described. The history of democratic drafted and passed major legislation is that it is paid for in the design of the legislation.

Part D medicare under Bush, just as Reagan's Star Wars defense spending ramp up, Bush's war on terrorism, Trump's military buildup, and his tax cuts have in common, no method to offset their costs or even raise revenue!

Versus:

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia
Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act
...
PPACA's major provisions came into force in 2014. By 2016, the uninsured share of the population had roughly halved, with estimates ranging from 20 to 24 million additional people covered.[5][6] The law also enacted a host of delivery system reforms intended to constrain healthcare costs and improve quality. After the law went into effect, increases in overall healthcare spending slowed, including premiums for employer-based insurance plans.[7]

The increased coverage was due, roughly equally, to an expansion of Medicaid eligibility and to changes to individual insurance markets. Both received new spending, funded through a combination of new taxes and cuts to Medicare provider rates and Medicare Advantage. Several Congressional Budget Office reports said that overall these provisions reduced the budget deficit, that repealing PPACA would increase the deficit,[8][9] and that the law reduced income inequality by taxing primarily the top 1% to fund roughly $600 in benefits on average to families in the bottom 40% of the income distribution.[10]...

...Polls initially found that a plurality of Americans opposed the act, although its individual provisions were generally more popular[13] and the law gained majority support by 2017.[14]

Individual mandate
The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017,[51] reduced to 0 the fine/tax for violating the individual mandate, starting in 2019.[52]

Guess who killed the "free rider" fine, with no corresponding spending offset to cover the lost revenue and fiscal impact of no
pre-existing conditions surcharge, after removal of the mandate that made this possible?

We'll wait for an apology.... LOL

Trump Is Right About One Thing: 'The Economy Does Better Under The Democrats'
.....
That’s right. Trump said out loud the same thing that Hillary Clinton has asserted—and top academics and journalists have confirmed. The same thing I’ve been compiling cold, hard government data on since 1980: By crucial metrics like GDP, job creation, business investment and avoiding recessions, the economy does a lot better with Democrats in the White House than with Republicans. Just one eye-opening example: Nine of the last 10 recessions have been under Republicans.

Democrats Vs. Republicans: Who Is Better For The Stock Market?