"Trying to save lives here" Group releases plan to reduce gun violence in Cincinnati

[Rucker61]

LOL What if that person is a criminal and already committed a crime or sold that gun?

Here is a simple solution. Sell a gun AFTER the background check is complete!

What if the government simply stops reviewing background checks or turns off NICS? Wait forever?

 

[ataraxia]

They shouldn't. It is that simple, but people are your side that wants to turn community policing into a police force.

They actually seem to think vigilante justice has worked well in the past and is a good idea.

 

[Rucker61]

It’s not just “some author”. The NRA has said they oppose it. What is it that they are opposing?

Perhaps you missed an early post:

Likely they oppose unenforceable, ineffective laws.

In the 2010 report "Summary of Select Firearms Violence Prevention Strategies" the DOJ noted that “universal” background checks can’t be effective without a reduction in the illegal sources of guns to criminals and can’t be enforced without comprehensive firearm registration.

In "Source and Use of Firearms Involved in Crimes: Survey of Prison Inmates, 2016", the DOJ reported in Table 5 where criminals get their guns. We see that vast majority of guns in the hands of criminals come from straw purchases, family transfers, theft and the underground market (Illegal sources of firearms that include markets for stolen goods, middlemen for stolen goods, criminals or criminal enterprises, or individuals or groups involved in sales of illegal drug). A total of 0.8% come from gun shows. Purchases from "good guys" in private sales don't even show up.


What does a UBC do to prevent criminals from getting guns?


https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf

 

[Bucky]

Could a bank give out a loan prior to performing a financial review? Could a landlord give out the keys before a credit check? Neither are required by law, as far as I know.

There still is no loophole.

No one is stupid enough to do that but in the gun industry, it is perfectly normal?

That's not only bad business but dangerous.

 

[Rucker61]

They actually seem to think vigilante justice has worked well in the past and is a good idea.

Wow, a mind reader now, too.

 

[ataraxia]

What if the government simply stops reviewing background checks or turns off NICS? Wait forever?

That’s like asking what if the government stops issuing drivers licenses. Is that a good argument for getting rid of drivers licenses?

 

[Rucker61]

Yes. Do car dealerships sell you a car without checking your drivers license?

Can private sellers sell a car to someone without checking a driver's license? I know the gun shops check my driver's license when I buy a gun.

 

[ataraxia]

Wow, a mind reader now, too.

Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Rucker61]

That’s like asking what if the government stops issuing drivers licenses. Is that a good argument for getting rid of drivers licenses?

Would the Democrats want to stop issuing driver's licenses? They'd certainly like to stop the sales of guns.

 

[Rucker61]

That’s like asking what if the government stops issuing drivers licenses. Is that a good argument for getting rid of drivers licenses?

Would the Democrats want to stop issuing driver's licenses? They'd certainly like to stop the sales of guns.

 

[ataraxia]

Can private sellers sell a car to someone without checking a driver's license? I know the gun shops check my driver's license when I buy a gun.

You are confusing two different things. You need training and screening to get a drivers license. If you have medical conditions like glaucoma or history of seizures or some kinds of heart disease, you may not get it. If you have had too many DUIs in the past, you may not get it.

You should be having better training and screening in gun use to get a gun.

 

[ataraxia]

Would the Democrats want to stop issuing driver's licenses? They'd certainly like to stop the sales of guns.

No to both.

 

[Rucker61]

Correct me if I’m wrong.

"They actually seem to think vigilante justice has worked well in the past and is a good idea."

If by vigilante justice you mean self defense, yes, I agree that it's worked well and is a good idea.

If you mean mobs of violence citizens taken the law into their own hands and murdering innocents or those protected by due process, then no, it hasn't worked well in the past and isn't a good idea.

 

[ataraxia]

Perhaps you missed an early post:

Likely they oppose unenforceable, ineffective laws.

In the 2010 report "Summary of Select Firearms Violence Prevention Strategies" the DOJ noted that “universal” background checks can’t be effective without a reduction in the illegal sources of guns to criminals and can’t be enforced without comprehensive firearm registration.

In "Source and Use of Firearms Involved in Crimes: Survey of Prison Inmates, 2016", the DOJ reported in Table 5 where criminals get their guns. We see that vast majority of guns in the hands of criminals come from straw purchases, family transfers, theft and the underground market (Illegal sources of firearms that include markets for stolen goods, middlemen for stolen goods, criminals or criminal enterprises, or individuals or groups involved in sales of illegal drug). A total of 0.8% come from gun shows. Purchases from "good guys" in private sales don't even show up.


What does a UBC do to prevent criminals from getting guns?


https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf

Gun control: Research shows how policies can reduce gun deaths - Business Insider

 

[Bucky]

Would the Democrats want to stop issuing driver's licenses? They'd certainly like to stop the sales of guns.

Why do you answer a question by asking another question?

This circular form of argument is getting old Rucker.

 

[Rucker61]

No to both.

There certainly was much resistance to gun shops being declared essential businesses, and more than one locality did in fact shut them down.

 

[Rucker61]

Why do you answer a question by asking another question?

This circular form of argument is getting old Rucker.

It's to make sure I understand exactly what the point is. Using driver's licenses as a counterexample seems to be a poor example, given that the Democrats have no stated interest in reducing the numbers of driver's licenses issued (quite the contrary; it's why undocumented get driver's licenses now). They do seem to wish to restrict and reduce sales of guns.

Why haven't the Democrats introduced legislation to allow undocumented to own firearms? Don't they have a right to protect themselves?

 

[ataraxia]

"They actually seem to think vigilante justice has worked well in the past and is a good idea."

If by vigilante justice you mean self defense, yes, I agree that it's worked well and is a good idea.

If you mean mobs of violence citizens taken the law into their own hands and murdering innocents or those protected by due process, then no, it hasn't worked well in the past and isn't a good idea.

This is not about self defense. These are vigilante groups engaged in domestic terrorism:

Militia Member Stopping Migrants At Border Suggested "Lining Them Up And Shooting Them"
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[Paradoxical]

Stopping the gun show loopholes would be a good place to start.

So, criminals buy their guns at gun shows? If so, it appears to be a very minor issue.

In any event, lets assume each state had laws for background checks. What is your suggestion to get guns out of the hands of criminals who, of course, are criminals because they violate the law?

 

[Rucker61]

No one is stupid enough to do that but in the gun industry, it is perfectly normal?

That's not only bad business but dangerous.

In the "gun industry", all FFLs are required to have their customers pass background checks.

On the private side, I can make a person loan without checking financial status; I can sell a car without checking for driver's license. I can, in some states, sell a firearm in a private sale without a background check.

You guys need better examples.

 

[ataraxia]

There certainly was much resistance to gun shops being declared essential businesses, and more than one locality did in fact shut them down.

They are less essential than hair salons. And many of those were shut down.

Like I said, guns have transcended reason or rationality for many. They have become a sacred cultural and religious symbol.

 

[Rucker61]

This is not about self defense. These are vigilante groups engaged in domestic terrorism:

Militia Member Stopping Migrants At Border Suggested "Lining Them Up And Shooting Them"
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

This doesn't quite seem to fit this topic, unless Cincinnati has some great plans to protect the border.

 

[ataraxia]

So, criminals buy their guns at gun shows? If so, it appears to be a very minor issue.

In any event, lets assume each state had laws for background checks. What is your suggestion to get guns out of the hands of criminals who, of course, are criminals because they violate the law?

How does every other civilized country in the world do it so successfully?

 

[Rucker61]

They are less essential than hair salons."

Opinion; getting a haircut is not a right; acquiring a firearm for self defense is.

And many of those were shut down.

Like I said, guns have transcended reason or rationality for many. They have become a sacred cultural and religious symbol.

You keep saying that. It really doesn't it true in anyone's mind but your own.

 

[ataraxia]

This doesn't quite seem to fit this topic, unless Cincinnati has some great plans to protect the border.

The second link is about the armed terrorists at the Michigan Legislature, Intimidating and blocking access to lawmakers to be able to enter the capital building and do their job.

That’s just right next-door to Cincinnati, isn’t it?