Trust

[Fledermaus]

There are plenty of adverse effects in the reporting systems. It takes time and effort to investigate them. And the CDC can easily say whatever it wants regarding the reports.

AND medical doctors can lose their license in some states now, if they say anything negative about the covid vaccines. So are they going to agree with patients who say they had bad reactions, and report them? Or will they insist the reactions were coincidence or imaginary?

Citation for your rather ridiculous claim about licenses.

 

[Fledermaus]

No one knows yet whether covid damage or vaccine damage is more common. Both may cause damage because of the spike protein. It was not a good decision to use it as the antigen.

Actually they do.

650,000 deaths for COVID

How many for vaccines?

 

[JasperL]

There are plenty of adverse effects in the reporting systems. It takes time and effort to investigate them. And the CDC can easily say whatever it wants regarding the reports.

AND medical doctors can lose their license in some states now, if they say anything negative about the covid vaccines. So are they going to agree with patients who say they had bad reactions, and report them? Or will they insist the reactions were coincidence or imaginary?

That's not really a reply to my points. What data, what evidence, can you point to that indicate the side effects are being hidden? Not just here but all over the planet.

And it's false that a doctor can lose their license for saying "anything negative' about COVID vaccines. The law requires them to report adverse reactions, and I'm positive you can cite no example of a doctor losing their license or being threatened to lose his or her license from discussing adverse effects. That comment is just you rationalizing the exercise of dismissing data and evidence in favor of anecdotes.

There are reports of state licensing boards threatening licenses over spreading of misinformation or disinformation, and both require a finding that the information being spread is actually false. Reporting adverse events as the law requires, or discussing the adverse effects they witness, or can back up with the data, is not that. What might threaten their license is discussing anecdotes, then dismissing all the available EVIDENCE in favor of anecdotes, which is what you're doing.

 

[JasperL]

No one knows yet whether covid damage or vaccine damage is more common. Both may cause damage because of the spike protein. It was not a good decision to use it as the antigen.

What are you talking about? The people in our hospitals are not there because of the vaccine, but because they have COVID, and the VAST MAJORITY (between 85%-90% in any given day) are unvaccinated or not fully vaccinated. The vaccine has been given now to perhaps billions and there is simply no evidence you can cite that "vaccine damage" is anything but trivial compared to the demonstrated damage of the virus itself.

In some sense we don't "know" anything at all. We don't "know" the full impact of COVID damage and won't for years, because of long covid, and because there is no question that not all illnesses caused by COVID were recorded as such, same with deaths. There are no question overcounts, deaths counted as COVID but not related. We also cannot "know" the total vaccine "damage" because no system can accurately capture every adverse event, and exclude all adverse events not caused by the vaccine but just coincident to the vaccine, and we cannot time travel to a decade in the future to see what if any long term impacts the vaccine had, which is true of every single vaccine ever administered in the history of mankind. No one "knew" the long term side effects of any vaccine, or drug, or new food additive, or other chemical used in our homes, etc. until the time passed.

So in the absence of perfect information - which is all you're suggesting, and it's of course true that all the data about drugs, food additives, vaccines, etc...... we have are imperfect, include errors, necessarily - the only rational option is to rely on the best evidence and that is the data. It's not to read a comments section then dismiss the data. If we had to "know" the long term effects of any drug, vaccine, etc. before using that substance or treatment, we'd still be waiting on evidence of the long term "damage" of the polio vaccine, which we could not possibly know until it was widely administered and the passage of a decade or more, and we couldn't know that until it was widely administered, which we couldn't do because we didn't know the long term 'damage'..... It's to set the bar at a place impossible to reach.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Decades of research on gene therapy, which failed, leading up to genetic vaccines, which failed, until, supposedly, recently.

The most recent stumbling block with the mRNA vaccines was figuring out a way to insert it into human cells without the body first destroying it.

The stumbling block wasn't an incomplete understanding of how cells worked, rather, it was developing a practical way to make the little fatty membrane that you wrap around the mRNA vaccine.

Without these lipid shells, there would be no mRNA vaccines for COVID-19

Fragile mRNA molecules used in COVID-19 vaccines can’t get into cells on their own. They owe their success to lipid nanoparticles that took decades to refine

cen.acs.org

You don't know what you are talking about and at this point you are basically spreading propaganda that will result in your fellow citizens dying. Your lack of understanding is going to lead to other people in your community and your country dying.

 

[Good4Nothin]

The most recent stumbling block with the mRNA vaccines was figuring out a way to insert it into human cells without the body first destroying it.

The stumbling block wasn't an incomplete understanding of how cells worked, rather, it was developing a practical way to make the little fatty membrane that you wrap around the mRNA vaccine.

Without these lipid shells, there would be no mRNA vaccines for COVID-19

Fragile mRNA molecules used in COVID-19 vaccines can’t get into cells on their own. They owe their success to lipid nanoparticles that took decades to refine

cen.acs.org

You don't know what you are talking about and at this point you are basically spreading propaganda that will result in your fellow citizens dying. Your lack of understanding is going to lead to other people in your community and your country dying.

They were able to make these vaccines WITHOUT a good understanding of how cells work. That is the problem.

And oh, yes, haha, accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being a murderer. A true propagandist.

 

[Fledermaus]

They were able to make these vaccines WITHOUT a good understanding of how cells work. That is the problem.

And oh, yes, haha, accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being a murderer. A true propagandist.

Time to First Lie?

First sentence.

 

[americanwoman]

They were able to make these vaccines WITHOUT a good understanding of how cells work. That is the problem.

And oh, yes, haha, accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being a murderer. A true propagandist.

Holy shit!!

Kids learn about cells and how they work in grade school. Are you really going to convince yourself someone like Kizzmekia Corbett, who has a Ph.D. in Microbiology and Immunology, does not have a good understanding of how cells work? You are f-in trippin!

 

[W_Heisenberg]

They were able to make these vaccines WITHOUT a good understanding of how cells work. That is the problem.

You are confusing "good" with "complete." We may not have a full, complete, or all-encompassing understanding of how all aspects of cells work, but that's not necessary.

And oh, yes, haha, accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being a murderer. A true propagandist.

I didn't write you were a murderer. I wrote: "you are basically spreading propaganda that will result in your fellow citizens dying. Your lack of understanding is going to lead to other people in your community and your country dying."

And it's not the fact that you disagree with me that makes what you're writing counter-productive, or even dangerous, it's the fact that you are spreading lies about the vaccine and how it works. You are actively discouraging people from taking a safe, effective vaccine.

 

[Ethel2]

Then stand for something like freedom. For heaven sake, stand for something more important than what you're missing. Because believe me, people who are fighting for individual rights are fighting for you. Really they are. Thanks!!

No one needs YOU to fight for their individual rights.
Your assistance is neither requested nor appreciated.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Holy shit!!

Kids learn about cells and how they work in grade school. Are you really going to convince yourself someone like Kizzmekia Corbett, who has a Ph.D. in Microbiology and Immunology, does not have a good understanding of how cells work? You are f-in trippin!

Sorry, you are much too ignorant to understand what I said. There is a difference between observing things and understanding how they work. It is a FACT that most of what goes on in cells is not understood, although it may have been observed and described.

 

[Good4Nothin]

You are confusing "good" with "complete." We may not have a full, complete, or all-encompassing understanding of how all aspects of cells work, but that's not necessary.

When 98% of DNA is called "junk" because no one knows what it does, I would say understanding is VERY incomplete. 98% incomplete. And everything else that cells do might be observed and described, but most is NOT understood.

And when you have a VERY incomplete understanding of a complex system, messing with it is bound to have unpredictable results.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Holy shit!!

Kids learn about cells and how they work in grade school. Are you really going to convince yourself someone like Kizzmekia Corbett, who has a Ph.D. in Microbiology and Immunology, does not have a good understanding of how cells work? You are f-in trippin!

It isn't worth arguing with you since your lack of knowledge is so profound. But you could start by reading this:

5 things we (still) don't know about cells

Picture one of your cells. If you’re not a biologist, chances are you’re thinking about the fried-egg-reminiscent illustration from your grade...

alleninstitute.org

That article, IF you are able to understand any of it, will explain to you that MOST of what cells do is NOT understood.

A cell is a 3D, living, dynamic unit that maintains itself from a one-dimensional string of instructions — the genome — and we don’t understand most of the rules for how that happens,

 

[americanwoman]

Sorry, you are much too ignorant to understand what I said. There is a difference between observing things and understanding how they work. It is a FACT that most of what goes on in cells is not understood, although it may have been observed and described.

I'm ignorant yet you're the one who got forced to take a vaccine in a free country and you expect me to listen to you over actual experts on the subject.

 

[Good4Nothin]

I'm ignorant yet you're the one who got forced to take a vaccine in a free country and you expect me to listen to you over actual experts on the subject.

The article I just linked is by experts.

I don't need to waste any more time on you. But yeah, I got forced to take a vaccine in a "free" country. Do you see anything wrong with that?

 

[americanwoman]

The article I just linked is by experts.

I don't need to waste any more time on you. But yeah, I got forced to take a vaccine in a "free" country. Do you see anything wrong with that?

Yes, you are an adult. Stick up for yourself and your own beliefs and don't rely on "good faith" for something you are obviously not sure about.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Yes, you are an adult. Stick up for yourself and your own beliefs and don't rely on "good faith" for something you are obviously not sure about.

And I think next time you need money you should rob a bank. After all, this is a free country and you have a right to stick up for yourself. Go for it.

 

[americanwoman]

And I think next time you need money you should rob a bank. After all, this is a free country and you have a right to stick up for yourself. Go for it.

Wait, you think robbing a bank is somehow sticking up for yourself? Sticking up for myself in that situation would be telling the person trying to force me to rob a bank to kick rocks.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

When 98% of DNA is called "junk" because no one knows what it does,

Your understanding of genetics is about 20 to 30 years out of date.

I would say understanding is VERY incomplete. 98% incomplete. And everything else that cells do might be observed and described, but most is NOT understood.

And when you have a VERY incomplete understanding of a complex system, messing with it is bound to have unpredictable results.

Well, then it’s a good thing we know enough about genetics to understand the mRNA from the vaccine can’t enter the nucleus of the cell and quickly degrades shortly after administration.

Otherwise you might have a point.

But you don’t have a point because you have no idea what you’re talking about.