Trump's tax returns must be released to Congress, DOJ says

[HangLow]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-tax-returns-congress/2021/07/30/c476873e-f15c-11eb-81d2-ffae0f931b8f_story.html?utm_source=reddit.com

Trump's tax returns must be released to Congress, DOJ says

The Justice Department on Friday said the Treasury Department must release former President Donald Trump's tax returns to a congressional committee. An...

www.marketwatch.com

I'll post a few links because I know the wp tends to have a pay wall for a lot of people, but it's on a ton of websites already.

Basically the doj reversed the prior decision under barr.which we knew barr was doing to protect trump best he could.
Congress had every right to see his taxes.

​

 

[Jezcoe]

What I really want to see is the returns of every single Congress person and especially, how much money they make from insider trading highlighted. I also want to see how much PAC money they receive and all their donors.

They want transparency, they need to demonstrate it themselves.

Don’t threaten me with a good time.

 

[NWRatCon]

Here's the problem with the 4th Amendment argument: it simply doesn't apply. The tax return itself is a public document, in the possession of a public agency. There is no reasonable expectation of privacy once it has been sent in. There are statutory expectations, but they only extend as far as the statute itself, which, as noted, has exactly the exception identified earlier. One can't have an expectation of privacy that the statute expressly exempts. Moreover, one can expect that any number of people would access those documents in their official capacities - as Trump has explicitly acknowledged when he spoke about audits, said he would release them, etc. Among those people with explicit access are prosecutors and legislators.

 

[gdgyva]

I think within the year so much information is going to become available to prosecutors in multiple jurisdictions it will be hard to avoid indictments. The public pressure to do so will become intense.

Look, even his supporters are well aware that Trump is a low-life con man, it's just some of them adore that about him. They like him because he's "like them". But most people don't adore cheaters and liars. Even among Republicans he's more feared than liked. If asked, they'll say they "like what he did," not what he is. But there are reprobates who actually support the most loathsome aspects of "being Trump", many on this forum, because they perceive it as discomforting "libs". That's all they really care about.

you can indict a turnip

convicting is a another matter entirely

finding 12 people on a jury to convict Trump....good luck with that

and that is IF (big IF) you can even get him in a courtroom to prosecute

 

[OpportunityCost]

Here's the problem with the 4th Amendment argument: it simply doesn't apply. The tax return itself is a public document, in the possession of a public agency. There is no reasonable expectation of privacy once it has been sent in. There are statutory expectations, but they only extend as far as the statute itself, which, as noted, has exactly the exception identified earlier. One can't have an expectation of privacy that the statute expressly exempts. Moreover, one can expect that any number of people would access those documents in their official capacities - as Trump has explicitly acknowledged when he spoke about audits, said he would release them, etc. Among those people with explicit access are prosecutors and legislators.

The IRS is required to keep information obtained from taxpayers as confidential information and only reveal in the event of legal action. Its part of their mandate. There is a reasonable expectation of privacy in that the information is not to be made public knowledge nor revealed except as evidence in court for civil or legal action as discovery.

You are assuming something that is completely wrong.

 

[OpportunityCost]

How many times a year do you suppose the IRS releases tax information to government entities?

I can tell you how many times that matters in this instance---zero.

Congress should not, as a matter of politics, seek any person's return, its a blatant abuse of power.

Do you think they have a legitimate reason to seek his returns? If so, please articulate it.

 

[Jezcoe]

Do you think they have a legitimate reason to seek his returns? If so, please articulate it.

Remember that time when Trump's former lawyer testified in front of Congress that if one was to look into the financials that they would find a ton of crime?

That's pretty legit.

 

[BlueTex]

I can tell you how many times that matters in this instance---zero.

Congress should not, as a matter of politics, seek any person's return, its a blatant abuse of power.

Do you think they have a legitimate reason to seek his returns? If so, please articulate it.

Turns out the same law that gives congress the power to get tax information also requires a detailed accounting from the IRS on how much has been accessed... The law places NO stipulation on the three committees access...

 

[OpportunityCost]

Remember that time when Trump's former lawyer testified in front of Congress that if one was to look into the financials that they would find a ton of crime?

That's pretty legit.

That's a criminal enforcement issue (DOJ, IRS, etc, ) not a congressional issue.

Legitimate would be to draft new legislation/conduct oversight. Looking for political dirt remains the most likely reason and shouldn't be considered sufficient and should be considered an abuse of power.

 

[TomFitz]

When will Biden release his tax returns?

No answer? Hah, I knew it.

You lose, libtards. Trump won in 2016. Get over it!

Biden had all of his tax returns on his campaign website. He fully intends to keep on doing so.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Turns out the same law that gives congress the power to get tax information also requires a detailed accounting from the IRS on how much has been accessed... The law places NO stipulation on the three committees access...

View attachment 67345655

Its funny, it looks entirely like you are kitchen sinking the argument by lumping in legitimate inquiries with Congressional ones for specific taxpayers to hide the fact that wanting to look at taxpayer information for political purposes is a corrupt action and not legitimate.

 

[Jezcoe]

That's a criminal enforcement issue (DOJ, IRS, etc, ) not a congressional issue.

Legitimate would be to draft new legislation/conduct oversight. Looking for political dirt remains the most likely reason and shouldn't be considered sufficient and should be considered an abuse of power.

How is the investigation of how to prevent crime in the tax code not under the purview of Congress?

Especially since the records were subpoenaed when the person in question was in office and used the power of that office to ignore said subpoena.

 

[OpportunityCost]

How is the investigation of how to prevent crime in the tax code not under the purview of Congress?

Especially since the records were subpoenaed when the person in question was in office and used the power of that office to ignore said subpoena.

Because the law already exists and is under investigation. They wanted the tax information to try the case in public---politically. There was no interest in passing a law to do anything, such laws already existed. Political advantage was the goal.

 

[BlueTex]

Its funny, it looks entirely like you are kitchen sinking the argument by lumping in legitimate inquiries with Congressional ones for specific taxpayers to hide the fact that wanting to look at taxpayer information for political purposes is a corrupt action and not legitimate.

Show us in the law the part where congress must justify their purpose... Just for reference.. Here is the law.. Don't know why you are arguing this so much, in all likelihood, the returns have already been sent to the committee.. Trump has NO standing to interfere...

 

[BlueTex]

Because the law already exists and is under investigation. They wanted the tax information to try the case in public---politically. There was no interest in passing a law to do anything, such laws already existed. Political advantage was the goal.

Good lord, the committee is prohibited, by law, from disclosing the information without the consent of the taxpayer. You have NO idea what laws they are considering and they have no obligation to tell you.

 

[Grand Mal]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-tax-returns-congress/2021/07/30/c476873e-f15c-11eb-81d2-ffae0f931b8f_story.html?utm_source=reddit.com

Trump's tax returns must be released to Congress, DOJ says

The Justice Department on Friday said the Treasury Department must release former President Donald Trump's tax returns to a congressional committee. An...

www.marketwatch.com

I'll post a few links because I know the wp tends to have a pay wall for a lot of people, but it's on a ton of websites already.

Basically the doj reversed the prior decision under barr.which we knew barr was doing to protect trump best he could.
Congress had every right to see his taxes.

Seems pointless now. Any irregularities in his taxes are between him and the IRS. How is Congress involved now?

 

[Roadvirus]

That all said, Congress does not investigate crimes. It does, however, investigate corruption, particularly of elected officials.

Trump is no longer an elected official.

 

[Roadvirus]

Good lord, the committee is prohibited, by law, from disclosing the information without the consent of the taxpayer.

Uh huh.

And what's to stop an "accidental" leak of the info? Say...by a staffer perhaps?

 

[W_Heisenberg]

The IRS is required to keep information obtained from taxpayers as confidential information and only reveal in the event of legal action. Its part of their mandate. There is a reasonable expectation of privacy in that the information is not to be made public knowledge nor revealed except as evidence in court for civil or legal action as discovery.

You are assuming something that is completely wrong.

This is from the OLC memo:

Section 6103(f)(1) of title 26, U.S. Code, vests the congressional tax committees with a broad right to receive tax information from the Department of the Treasury. It embodies a long-standing judgment of the political branches that the tax committees are uniquely suited to receive such information. The committees, however, cannot compel the Executive Branch to disclose such information without satisfying the constitutional requirement that the information could serve a legitimate legislative purpose.

In assessing whether requested information could serve a legitimate legislative purpose, the Executive Branch must give due weight to Congress’s status as a co-equal branch of government. Like courts, therefore, Executive Branch officials must apply a presumption that Legislative Branch officials act in good faith and in furtherance of legitimate objectives.

When one of the congressional tax committees requests tax information pursuant to section 6103(f)(1), and has invoked facially valid reasons for its request, the Executive Branch should conclude that the request lacks a legitimate legislative purpose only in exceptional circumstances. The Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee has invoked sufficient reasons for requesting the former President’s tax information. Under section 6103(f)(1), Treasury must furnish the information to the Committee.

https://www.justice.gov/olc/file/1419111/download

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Uh huh.

And what's to stop an "accidental" leak of the info? Say...by a staffer perhaps?

Leak what? You guys keep telling us Trump is a paragon of virtue. What's the big deal? According to Trumpers Trump has never done anything nothing wrong, he's not a crook at all, and Congress certainly won't find anything.

I'm sure the tax returns will reveal how super awesome Trump is in all things, and upon reading the tax returns Congress will collectively bow down before him and chant MAGA in unison.

 

[JMR]

Trump is no longer an elected official.

He claims he is, and that he will be restored to office shortly, Is he lying, Is he crazy?

 

[JMR]

Uh huh.

And what's to stop an "accidental" leak of the info? Say...by a staffer perhaps?

Most of Trump's "accidental" leaks were by Trump.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Good lord, the committee is prohibited, by law, from disclosing the information without the consent of the taxpayer. You have NO idea what laws they are considering and they have no obligation to tell you.

What amuses me is that Trump supporters know he's a crook and know there is probably something in his tax returns that reflect negatively on Trump. That's why all Trump supporters are shitting in their pants about this news.

This reveals a lot about Trump supporters.

They always protested about the mainstream media trying to tear down Trump, but deep down their protests were always disingenuous. They always knew he was a liar and a cheat and a con man and a scumbag and a piece of shit who deserves no respect. The reaction to this news about his tax returns is one more piece of evidence proving that point.

 

[BlueTex]

Uh huh.

And what's to stop an "accidental" leak of the info? Say...by a staffer perhaps?

Prosecution... Do courts typically accept hypothetical violations of the law as a reason to invalidate a law?

 

[upsideguy]

Trump is no longer an elected official.

He was when the tax returns were solicited. He stalled and now his stalls are up. More importantly, the underlying issues have not substantially changed: was our President comprised by his personal financial interests? Yes, the remedy of that problem is no longer to remove him from office, but the historical record needs to be duly reflected to protect America in the future.