trump's big mistake

[JMR]

I don't know - Trump feared Biden's poll numbers could spell defeat for Trump in November next year.

I mean if Biden was polling about 2%, the Ukraine call wouldn't need to happen would it ?

Unfortunately for Trump his own polling has him losing to all the other democratic candidates.

 

[Phys251]

Nope, just showing the obvious hypocrisy.

Feel free to take your whataboutism onto another thread if you want to regain the privilege of being listened to. :thumbs:

 

[JMR]

Read your source.... He's ahead of Obama by two points for the same time frame prior to the election; 14 months out.
Trump +43 - September 2019
Obama +41 - September 2011

Glad to have put this all into proper perspective for you. :2razz:

The "proper perspective" would include looking at all the data, not just the line that pleases you.

 

[JMR]

Oh we can imagine. More scandals about the Democratic President putting his or her feet on the Resolute Desk.

Yes indeed, and then she goes and wears a tan pantsuit! Oops, forgot to put the flag pin on! The country is doomed.

 

[Irwin Corey]

Feelings over facts ...again

Well it was his opinion, he never represented otherwise; I suppose you're going to say you've NEVER offered an opinion on the board? :roll:

Opinion or not, that this self inflicted wound by the president was TOTALY unnecessary. All he had to do was spin up the "Biden Thing" and people like to vote for him would have believed it as though the Biden's were caught red handed in the act.

Dumb, da dumb, dumb … dumb!!!

 

[JustHanging]

So, trump abused his power to try to get Ukraine to cook up some claims of lawbreaking involving Joe Biden, to help him in his campaign against Biden. And he got caught, and he's being impeached, with a lot of bad press.

He's also kicking himself for being an idiot. Not for being a criminal, not for being good at it, but for doing it at all when he didn't need to.

trump's whole presidency and popularity and campaigning is based on lies. In 2016, all he did on Hillary was call her "Crooked Hillary" and chant "Lock her up" at rallies. That's all his people want, not facts, not truth.

trump tried to get something a bit more substantive - 'see, Ukraine says this!' - and that was pointless. The lies, the chants, for attacking Biden are all he needed for his people. Instead, now he's paying a big price he didn't need to.

The irony, that the biggest con man and liar in politics, is going down for not just sticking to making it up.

Good point.

All he would have had to do was say "The Ukraine says Biden is a criminal! Lock him up! Lock him up!" And as usual most of the base would have bought it hook, line, and sinker.


Donald Trump declares 'I love the poorly educated'

 

[Irwin Corey]

I voted for Trump because my man Barack Obama screwed me on the Affordable Care Act.

Before the ACA 45,000 AmeriCANs a year were dying because they lacked health insurance.

... Not all Trump voters are Trump supporters.

That becomes truer by the day.

I like Trump as a TV personality.

I never watched his show, but my observation there is NOTHING real about reality shows; perfect for this most false of humans.

… Trump does speak true about the Democrats abandoning the traditional American union labor worker minus teachers unions.[/quote]

I doubt that, tRump lies when the truth would serve him better.

Yeah. Disappointed that the Republicans had the House, Senate and Presidency and didn't get it done.

IF they would have had a viable alternative they probably would have; "who knew health care would be so hard"? Not this dummy that's for sure.

But, Obama also bamboozled me with the "If you like your plan you can keep your plan ..." I lost my plan and my doctors.[/quote]

No, he didn't, either your making **** up about "My Man" or you don't really know much about the ACA, how it came into being and why ""If you like your plan you can keep your plan ...", turned out to be false even though it was never meant to be a lie. For the most part it was true but if you had a plan that wasn't grandfathered because it had been changed after the deadline then it may have went away; that was actually fairly uncommon.

I'm independent because all politicians suck and I try to pick the lesser of the evils come election day.

Well then it 2020 should be easy because their is nothing more evil than the lying, misogynistic, criminal that lives in the White House now.

 

[Irwin Corey]

I voted for Trump because my man Barack Obama screwed me on the Affordable Care Act. Hillary was just ACA 2.0 in my opinion. Not all Trump voters are Trump supporters. I like Trump as a TV personality. As President, I just wanted him to repeal and replace the ACA. Trump does speak true about the Democrats abandoning the traditional American union labor worker minus teachers unions. Every Democrat scares me other than Tulsi Gabbard because I think her military officer background gives her a restraint under pressure when dealing with opponents.

Yeah. Disappointed that the Republicans had the House, Senate and Presidency and didn't get it done. But, Obama also bamboozled me with the "If you like your plan you can keep your plan ..." I lost my plan and my doctors. I'm independent because all politicians suck and I try to pick the lesser of the evils come election day.

Yeah. Disappointed that the Republicans had the House, Senate and Presidency and didn't get it done. But, Obama also bamboozled me

Before the ACA 45,000 AmeriCANs a year were dying because they lacked health insurance.

Not all Trump voters are Trump supporters.

That becomes truer by the day.

Originally Posted by Hondo
I like Trump as a TV personality.

I never watched his show, but my observation there is NOTHING real about reality shows; perfect for this most false of humans.

… Trump does speak true about the Democrats abandoning the traditional American union labor worker minus teachers unions.

I doubt that, tRump lies when the truth would serve him better.



IF they would have had a viable alternative they probably would have; "who knew health care would be so hard"? Not this dummy that's for sure.

But, Obama also bamboozled me with the "If you like your plan you can keep your plan ..." I lost my plan and my doctors.

No, he didn't, either your making **** up about "My Man" or you don't really know much about the ACA, how it came into being and why ""If you like your plan you can keep your plan ...", turned out to be false even though it was never meant to be a lie. For the most part it was true but if you had a plan that wasn't grandfathered because it had been changed after the deadline then it may have went away; that was actually fairly uncommon. But, it WAS a great talking point used by the right and blown way out of proportion.



Well then it 2020 should be easy because their is nothing more evil than the lying, misogynistic, criminal that lives in the White House now.

sorry for the double post not sure how that happened

 

[Hondo]

Before the ACA 45,000 AmeriCANs a year were dying because they lacked health insurance.



That becomes truer by the day.



I never watched his show, but my observation there is NOTHING real about reality shows; perfect for this most false of humans.



I doubt that, tRump lies when the truth would serve him better.



IF they would have had a viable alternative they probably would have; "who knew health care would be so hard"? Not this dummy that's for sure.



No, he didn't, either your making **** up about "My Man" or you don't really know much about the ACA, how it came into being and why ""If you like your plan you can keep your plan ...", turned out to be false even though it was never meant to be a lie. For the most part it was true but if you had a plan that wasn't grandfathered because it had been changed after the deadline then it may have went away; that was actually fairly uncommon. But, it WAS a great talking point used by the right and blown way out of proportion.



Well then it 2020 should be easy because their is nothing more evil than the lying, misogynistic, criminal that lives in the White House now.

Obama specifically mentioned my insurance as one of the two models he wanted to pattern the ACA after during his speeches. It was a hospital run HMO through the Geisinger network. My plan reimbursed me for elective surgery out of state and I could use it out of the country for non-emergency out of network treatment. It was less than $50 a month when I first enrolled and climbed to $80 several years later just before the ACA. After the ACA all the really amazing aspects of the plan were gone. The premiums and deductibles went way up.

I'd rather vote John Gotti into office for 4 years than go with socialism. I lived in England and the Cayman Islands. The socialist utopia isn't all it's cracked up to be.

 

[Irwin Corey]

Obama specifically mentioned my insurance as one of the two models he wanted to pattern the ACA after during his speeches.

I doubt that, but cite it I'm curious.

It was a hospital run HMO through the Geisinger network. My plan reimbursed me for elective surgery out of state and I could use it out of the country for non-emergency out of network treatment. It was less than $50 a month when I first enrolled and climbed to $80 several years later just before the ACA. After the ACA all the really amazing aspects of the plan were gone. The premiums and deductibles went way up.

It sounds to me like a plan that wasn't allowed to be grandfathered in BY HHS, NOT President Obama.

I'd rather vote John Gotti into office for 4 years than go with socialism. I lived in England and the Cayman Islands. The socialist utopia isn't all it's cracked up to be.

First of all There has never been a Socialist Government, only totalitarian dictatorships masquerading as Socialist. I lived in the US during the 50's and 60's when we had LIMITED REGULATED Capitalism with a healthy dose of Social PROGRAMS that benefitted and underpinned society and THESE United States have never been Stronger, more Fair and financially more stable both the Government and it's Citizens. That America is what tRump supports are AGAINING about.

 

[Hondo]

Just curious, how did you get screwed by the ACA? Did you really think Trump was going to replace it?

Imagine a hospital run HMO health plan that cost less than $80 a month with $100 to $300 deductibles $10 in network and $20 copays out of network and you could use the plan out of state and out of the country that even reimbursed you for elective surgery. I had elective eye surgery out of state that cost $6800. The doctor's office submitted it to my insurance company and they reimbursed me for $6200 because they consider eye surgery as medically necessary. After the ACA, the premiums went way up. As a self-employed independent contractor, the system was punitive. Deductibles went way up as well. Most everyone I knew had insurance, but couldn't afford to use it. I could no longer use the plan for my out of state doctors. Before that, I could shop around for the best specialists in the USA online and see them. For eye surgery I went to a NYC doctor considered to be the top cataract surgeon in the USA with 57 patents on surgical equipment used by most ophthalmologists at the time. For knee surgery, I was going to go to the doctor who repaired my girlfriend's knee in NJ because he did a lot of NFL guys and athletes like my girlfriend. She suffered a horrific set of tears and her doctor got her back into pro figure skating. I had a torn, ACL, MCL, and PCL in my left knee from being struck by a car as a pedestrian. I didn't want to lose my ability to surf like Steve Irwin and a friend of mine in California after knee surgery. I thought my chances would be better of being normal if I went to that guy. Now, Geisinger which Obama mentioned as one of the two models he liked for the ACA is just like any other overpriced HMO. I can't get into see my primary care provider for months and months. He was exceptional. Sure many people are covered by the ACA, but all it really was a tax. My girlfriend's deductible is $4000 through her employer packaged plan. That's a bargain compared to some of my friend's plans.

 

[Hondo]

Under the plan Obama actually wanted to pass, you wouldn't have had to give up your doctor. The Republicans made absolutely sure language was added to best serve their corporate donors, otherwise it never would've passed. You're pretending that the people who actually tried to improve healthcare are the same as the people that don't want to improve healthcare and won't even try. The Republicans were wildly against protecting people with pre-existing conditions, and wish we never would've gone away from having 10's of millions of Americans who are permanently disqualified from having healthcare.

Dozens and dozens of countries in the world have higher quality of care than the US, cover 100% of their population and do it at a fraction of the cost the US pays. There is no example in the world of a system like the Republicans want that isn't a ****hole.

One night in 1999 in the Cayman Islands I was run over by a car. A very attractive brown haired woman with a clipboard, who by any other stretch of the imagination would have been someone's dream girl, was the hospital administrator who kept vetoing my doctor's plan of care to get me walking again. He decided, since I was an American working there on a visa, my best bet was to get me out of the British health system back to the USA. After a year in America, I could walk again. After 18 months I could run. Not a big fan of socialized medicine.

 

[Hondo]

Words are cheap. Actually, only a sliver of people 'lost their doctor' from the ACA, and that includes the junk insurance no longer allowed - an estimated 2.6 million total.

If you dispute that you had junk insurance, then post a lot of details to support your claim - what insurance did you have exactly, where are links showing it was cancelled because of the ACA and wasn't junk insurance?

I don't expect you to answer. But prove me wrong. Maybe you were one of the very small number. You obviously don't give a crap about the far more who GOT insurance, and all the other improvements like people with pre-existing conditions.

'Millions' Lost Insurance - FactCheck.org

I had Geisinger insurance. It was a hospital run HMO. Inexpensive, less than $80 a month. In network co-pays $10 out of network $20. $100 to $300 deductibles. I could use it out of state and out of the country. For example, I had elective eye surgery in NYC out of state. I paid $6800 out of pocket. Geisinger reimbursed me for $6200. Obama mentioned Geisinger during his speeches as one of the two models he liked. After the ACA, Geisinger premiums and deductibles went way up. I could no longer use the plan to see Dr. Richard Mackool, Sr. in NYC an ophthalmologist regarded as being one of the best in the USA with 57 patents on surgical equipment commonly used by others. The insurance wasn't canceled it just became more expensive and crappy. As an indie contractor, I could try to work my income around affordable premiums that would then be over $700 a month without tax credits. My girlfriend had a steady paycheck and her deductibles in the same insurance were over $2000. Now, hers deductible is $4000 on her new plan at a new job. I knew several people whose deductibles were much higher. The ACA was a tax.

 

[Hondo]

I doubt that, but cite it I'm curious.



It sounds to me like a plan that wasn't allowed to be grandfathered in BY HHS, NOT President Obama.



First of all There has never been a Socialist Government, only totalitarian dictatorships masquerading as Socialist. I lived in the US during the 50's and 60's when we had LIMITED REGULATED Capitalism with a healthy dose of Social PROGRAMS that benefitted and underpinned society and THESE United States have never been Stronger, more Fair and financially more stable both the Government and it's Citizens. That America is what tRump supports are AGAINING about.

President Barack Obama is the latest national leader to praise Intermountain Healthcare for providing the kind of healthcare America needs. In a speech last Thursday in Green Bay, Wisconsin, the President said: "Even within our own country, a lot of the places where we spend less on healthcare actually have higher quality than places where we spend more. (Video courtesy of KUTV News.)

"We have to ask why places like the Geisinger Health system in rural Pennsylvania, Intermountain Health in Salt Lake City, or communities like Green Bay can offer high-quality care at costs well below average, but other places in America can't. We need to identify the best practices across the country, learn from the success, and replicate that success elsewhere," he said.

President Obama Applauds Intermountain | Intermountain Healthcare

 

[JMR]

Imagine a hospital run HMO health plan that cost less than $80 a month with $100 to $300 deductibles $10 in network and $20 copays out of network and you could use the plan out of state and out of the country that even reimbursed you for elective surgery. I had elective eye surgery out of state that cost $6800. The doctor's office submitted it to my insurance company and they reimbursed me for $6200 because they consider eye surgery as medically necessary. After the ACA, the premiums went way up. As a self-employed independent contractor, the system was punitive. Deductibles went way up as well. Most everyone I knew had insurance, but couldn't afford to use it. I could no longer use the plan for my out of state doctors. Before that, I could shop around for the best specialists in the USA online and see them. For eye surgery I went to a NYC doctor considered to be the top cataract surgeon in the USA with 57 patents on surgical equipment used by most ophthalmologists at the time. For knee surgery, I was going to go to the doctor who repaired my girlfriend's knee in NJ because he did a lot of NFL guys and athletes like my girlfriend. She suffered a horrific set of tears and her doctor got her back into pro figure skating. I had a torn, ACL, MCL, and PCL in my left knee from being struck by a car as a pedestrian. I didn't want to lose my ability to surf like Steve Irwin and a friend of mine in California after knee surgery. I thought my chances would be better of being normal if I went to that guy. Now, Geisinger which Obama mentioned as one of the two models he liked for the ACA is just like any other overpriced HMO. I can't get into see my primary care provider for months and months. He was exceptional. Sure many people are covered by the ACA, but all it really was a tax. My girlfriend's deductible is $4000 through her employer packaged plan. That's a bargain compared to some of my friend's plans.

Thank you for your response.

I have no idea how your original plan stayed in business. That is incredible coverage for peanuts. Was it funded also by an employer?

Pre ACA, my family plan was $12,000 a year for very good coverage. When dependents turned 26, my premium dropped to $6,000, which each of them would have paid also for individual plans, if not for ACA.
They were able to get subsidized coverage in basically the same plan, for about $3,500 at the exchange.

I know these things vary by state, but I don't know anyone who had their premiums rise due to ACA. One dependent moved to Colorado, and did well on their exchange also.

I don't believe the GOP and/or Trump ever had any intention of replacing ACA, just to repeal it.

 

[Irwin Corey]

President Barack Obama is the latest national leader to praise Intermountain Healthcare for providing the kind of healthcare America needs. In a speech last Thursday in Green Bay, Wisconsin, the President said: "Even within our own country, a lot of the places where we spend less on healthcare actually have higher quality than places where we spend more. (Video courtesy of KUTV News.)

"We have to ask why places like the Geisinger Health system in rural Pennsylvania, Intermountain Health in Salt Lake City, or communities like Green Bay can offer high-quality care at costs well below average, but other places in America can't. We need to identify the best practices across the country, learn from the success, and replicate that success elsewhere," he said.

President Obama Applauds Intermountain | Intermountain Healthcare

I don't see, and I get your point that your provider was praised, but was your plan changed or substandard to what HHS required? If it was President Obama didn't lie to you, HHS changed the rules after he made that speech; yes that happened.

 

[Hondo]

Thank you for your response.

I have no idea how your original plan stayed in business. That is incredible coverage for peanuts. Was it funded also by an employer?

Pre ACA, my family plan was $12,000 a year for very good coverage. When dependents turned 26, my premium dropped to $6,000, which each of them would have paid also for individual plans, if not for ACA.
They were able to get subsidized coverage in basically the same plan, for about $3,500 at the exchange.

I know these things vary by state, but I don't know anyone who had their premiums rise due to ACA. One dependent moved to Colorado, and did well on their exchange also.

I don't believe the GOP and/or Trump ever had any intention of replacing ACA, just to repeal it.

Nope. I was my employer. I think it cost me $42 a month when I first got on the plan. Maybe around 2001? Not sure. I returned to PA after working in Key Largo and having insurance through an employer there. It was in the $40 range in the early 2000's anyway. I was in my 30's. By the time Obama was in office, my insurance had gone up to the $70 range mostly because I crossed into my 40's. I think I paid $76 a month? So, yeah, excellent health care under $50 and $80 a month. Obama mentioned it during speeches I posted a link to a quote above that I found to reply to another poster.

 

[Hondo]

I don't see, and I get your point that your provider was praised, but was your plan changed or substandard to what HHS required? If it was President Obama didn't lie to you, HHS changed the rules after he made that speech; yes that happened.

If the ACA never happened, I'm sure the Geisinger Health Plan would not have changed. Required as in my plan had to cover me, an adult male, for pregnancy and drug abuse counseling? IIRC, Geisinger offered Rx, physical therapy, psych counseling, Ob-Gyn services, etc. as add-ons. So, I ended up paying for services I don't need. All I know is that after Geisinger Plans went into Heathcare.gov they were expensive.

 

[JMR]

Nope. I was my employer. I think it cost me $42 a month when I first got on the plan. Maybe around 2001? Not sure. I returned to PA after working in Key Largo and having insurance through an employer there. It was in the $40 range in the early 2000's anyway. I was in my 30's. By the time Obama was in office, my insurance had gone up to the $70 range mostly because I crossed into my 40's. I think I paid $76 a month? So, yeah, excellent health care under $50 and $80 a month. Obama mentioned it during speeches I posted a link to a quote above that I found to reply to another poster.

I saw that.

I think too many compromises had to be made along the way to passing the ACA. I believe the intention was good, and that it could have been improved after passing, if the GOP had not been hellbent to repeal it.

 

[Irwin Corey]

If the ACA never happened, I'm sure the Geisinger Health Plan would not have changed. Required as in my plan had to cover me, an adult male, for pregnancy and drug abuse counseling? IIRC, Geisinger offered Rx, physical therapy, psych counseling, Ob-Gyn services, etc. as add-ons. So, I ended up paying for services I don't need. All I know is that after Geisinger Plans went into Heathcare.gov they were expensive.

The ACA has insured thousands of lives and saved thousands of lives. It was a big compromise and not perfect. Thousands are dying now because of tRump's meddling.

 

[Hondo]

The ACA has insured thousands of lives and saved thousands of lives. It was a big compromise and not perfect. Thousands are dying now because of tRump's meddling.

I believe the mortality data doesn't support that. I might be wrong.

 

[snakestretcher]

Read your source.... He's ahead of Obama by two points for the same time frame prior to the election; 14 months out.
Trump +43 - September 2019
Obama +41 - September 2011

Glad to have put this all into proper perspective for you. :2razz:

Two whole points? Why that's almost a landslide! He's not doing so well now though, is he.

 

[Craig234]

If the ACA never happened, I'm sure the Geisinger Health Plan would not have changed.

Here's someone who you can thank for higher premiums from Geisenger, from 2018:

"One area of concern for the integrated healthcare system was its Affordable Care Act (ACA) health plan. Geisinger Health Plan (GHP) struggled after the company didn't get $11 million in cost-sharing reduction (CSR) payments following President Donald Trump’s decision to stop payments in October."

 

[KevinKohler]

As long as the whistleblower follows the proper and legal process as this one did, so be it. That way the claims won't be "half vetted."

What about the other 40 times?

 

[Hondo]

Here's someone who you can thank for higher premiums from Geisenger, from 2018:

"One area of concern for the integrated healthcare system was its Affordable Care Act (ACA) health plan. Geisinger Health Plan (GHP) struggled after the company didn't get $11 million in cost-sharing reduction (CSR) payments following President Donald Trump’s decision to stop payments in October."

The affordability disappeared immediately upon the launch of Healthcare.gov. Each year was worse before 2016. I switched to a Blue Cross PPO. Now, I am on state insurance which turns out to be Geisinger until I pass in the next few months. Government shouldn't meddle if they aren't going to do it right. My grandfather taught me to never build anything half-arsed.