Trump: 'We have reached a deal' [to end the shutdown]

[TU Curmudgeon]

there probably won't be a real solution because those who purchase the government want the underground economy to continue. i support bringing all of those workers into the daylight and granting them the protections that everyone else has.

If you think that a government of the mice, by the cats, and for the cats is going to do anything to ensure that mouse holes have cat-proof doors, you are going to be VERY disappointed.

 

[Helix]

If you think that a government of the mice, by the cats, and for the cats is going to do anything to ensure that mouse holes have cat-proof doors, you are going to be VERY disappointed.

i'm talking about what i think should be, not what will be. in reality, bringing undocumented workers into the daylight, above ground economy will reduce profits enough that those who own the government will do everything that they can to prevent it from happening.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

i'm talking about what i think should be, not what will be. in reality, bringing undocumented workers into the daylight, above ground economy will reduce profits enough that those who own the government will do everything that they can to prevent it from happening.

You don't hear me arguing with you about it, do you?

Did you check out the link? It goes to a fable told by a Baptist minister.

 

[Helix]

You don't hear me arguing with you about it, do you?

Did you check out the link? It goes to a fable told by a Baptist minister.

i didn't think that we were arguing.

 

[Quaestio]

" art of the deal"

Art of the Dill.

 

[MovingPictures]

He’s so incompetent. And such a fraud.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

See, I can deal with his abusive nature, his lies, and even his corruption.

It's his world class stupidity that I can never get past, and that's why whenever I see someone that still supports him after all of his blunders, I just instantly assume they're imbeciles.

I know I can't be the only one that does that.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Strategy? the strategy is to eliminate illegal immigration and the costs. WALLS WORK, always have and always will or prisons wouldn't have them. What broader parameters should federal bureaucrats set and what does out Constitution say about that?

I've already posted my position on the wall/barrier in the other thread and not much has changed in my view, so I don't want to keep jumping topics.

 

[Conservative]

I've already posted my position on the wall/barrier in the other thread and not much has changed in my view, so I don't want to keep jumping topics.

Such passion you have for this issue and 5.8 billion dollars for a wall!! That lacks basic logic and common sense and simply is just because of Trump

 

[ElChupacabra]

Such passion you have for this issue and 5.8 billion dollars for a wall!! That lacks basic logic and common sense and simply is just because of Trump

You continue to make this assertion despite the many detailed reasons I laid out in the various threads on the topic. If anyone else would have proposed this project with the same approach as Trump did I'd be equally critical. Simply stating "walls work" is as silly as someone selling you a car on the premise that "cars work!". How something works is equally important because how a wall is effective is dependent on a variety of factors.

 

[Conservative]

You continue to make this assertion despite the many detailed reasons I laid out in the various threads on the topic. If anyone else would have proposed this project with the same approach as Trump did I'd be equally critical. Simply stating "walls work" is as silly as someone selling you a car on the premise that "cars work!". How something works is equally important because how a wall is effective is dependent on a variety of factors.

So be honest for a change, why don't you want a wall in Southern Texas that has no affect on you?

 

[ElChupacabra]

So be honest for a change, why don't you want a wall in Southern Texas that has no affect on you?

I'm always honest, and when you asked this the first time I responded. Whether or not it affects me isn't relevant; many things don't affect me personally but I have an opinion about it. It sounds bizarre to only be concerned about things that directly affect oneself; quite myopic.

 

[Conservative]

I'm always honest, and when you asked this the first time I responded. Whether or not it affects me isn't relevant; many things don't affect me personally but I have an opinion about it. It sounds bizarre to only be concerned about things that directly affect oneself; quite myopic.

That's the point, it doesn't affect you and your opinion I believe is based solely on Trump and not the value of the wall in deterring illegal immigration thus lowering costs. You want to judge Trump on performance, then give him what he wants or base your judgment wrongly based upon him not having the tools to deliver. If costs are reduced and the walls work, are you willing to admit being wrong? How will you know if the wall isn't approved? 5.7 billion in a 4.4 trillion dollar federal govt. is a small price to pay to find out

 

[calamity]

That's the point, it doesn't affect you and your opinion I believe is based solely on Trump and not the value of the wall in deterring illegal immigration thus lowering costs. You want to judge Trump on performance, then give him what he wants or base your judgment wrongly based upon him not having the tools to deliver. If costs are reduced and the walls work, are you willing to admit being wrong? How will you know if the wall isn't approved? 5.7 billion in a 4.4 trillion dollar federal govt. is a small price to pay to find out

Face it. Trump foolishly gambled, and Nancy kicked his teeth in.

 

[Conservative]

Face it. Trump foolishly gambled, and Nancy kicked his teeth in.

Cute, three week extension, great that you have something so important to celebrate since economic data and results don't make the cut with you

 

[prometeus]

Cute, three week extension, great that you have something so important to celebrate since economic data and results don't make the cut with you

What was the cost of this Trump **** up?

 

[calamity]

Cute, three week extension, great that you have something so important to celebrate since economic data and results don't make the cut with you

Economic data? Your boi's shutdown cost the economy $11B, and 10 points in the polls. I doubt he would be stupid enough to repeat the exercise. But...stupid is as stupid does. And, lord knows the Trump does a lot of stupid ****.

 

[mike2810]

It will be interesting to see under Pelosi's great leadership what is produced in 3 weeks. If Congress fails to produce, it will be on Congress.

 

[Conservative]

Economic data? Your boi's shutdown cost the economy $11B, and 10 points in the polls. I doubt he would be stupid enough to repeat the exercise. But...stupid is as stupid does. And, lord knows the Trump does a lot of stupid ****.

So deduct that from the 2 trillion he has added to the GDP in 2 years and he still will have the best record of any U.S. President in history for the first two years in office.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

What was the cost of this Trump **** up?

I've seen estimates (and it's really too soon for an accurate answer [if an accurate answer is possible at all]) that run as high as $11,000,000,000.

And that's just the "money cost".

What the "cost" from having almost all of the rest of the world believe that the best way to "negotiate" with Mr. Trump is to tell him "No." over and over until he simply declares victory and gives you what he said he would never even consider giving you is going to be I have no idea.

If you don't think that that is what the rest of the world believes, then you don't pay any attention to anything other than the American media (and to the "conservative" American media at that).

 

[ElChupacabra]

That's the point, it doesn't affect you and your opinion I believe is based solely on Trump and not the value of the wall in deterring illegal immigration thus lowering costs. You want to judge Trump on performance, then give him what he wants or base your judgment wrongly based upon him not having the tools to deliver. If costs are reduced and the walls work, are you willing to admit being wrong? How will you know if the wall isn't approved? 5.7 billion in a 4.4 trillion dollar federal govt. is a small price to pay to find out

"Belief" is the operative word there. I've already explained in great detail the issues I have with Trump's proposal; a good chunk of it already with you. Your position is basically "it doesn't affect you, so why do you care?", "walls work", and "it's a pittance". None of which have anything to do with the points I previously raised. Plenty of people have opinions and concerns about things that don't directly affect them; if you don't that's on you, but don't assume everyone is like you.

Had he proposed a clear plan from the beginning, he might have appeared more credible. But since he started with all sorts of far out ideas (Mexico will pay for it, it's going to be a concrete wall from sea to shining sea, etc.) I lost confidence he really understands the immigration issue and is more focused with trying to put out one particular fire. With no effort to address the +40% of illegals here who arrived by plane, giving him $25 billion when he hadn't even sorted out the funding for tech and personnel for something that size did not sound like a good idea to me at all.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

"Belief" is the operative word there. I've already explained in great detail the issues I have with Trump's proposal; a good chunk of it already with you. Your position is basically "it doesn't affect you, so why do you care?", "walls work", and "it's a pittance". None of which have anything to do with the points I previously raised. Plenty of people have opinions and concerns about things that don't directly affect them; if you don't that's on you, but don't assume everyone is like you.

Had he proposed a clear plan from the beginning, he might have appeared more credible. But since he started with all sorts of far out ideas (Mexico will pay for it, it's going to be a concrete wall from sea to shining sea, etc.) I lost confidence he really understands the immigration issue and is more focused with trying to put out one particular fire. With no effort to address the +40% of illegals here who arrived by plane, giving him $25 billion when he hadn't even sorted out the funding for tech and personnel for something that size did not sound like a good idea to me at all.

An interesting thought occurs to me.

What would happen if the Democrats DID agree to 100% funding of "The Wall" ON THE CONDITION that not one dime could be spent on anything related to "The Wall" UNTIL AFTER 100% of the land needed had been arranged for AND the complete set of construction blueprints had been finished AND 100% of the needed supplies had been arranged for?

My suspicion is that that would end up putting off completion of "The Wall" for about 15 years - which is likely to be no different than if all of the money was made available next Tuesday.

 

[ElChupacabra]

An interesting thought occurs to me.

What would happen if the Democrats DID agree to 100% funding of "The Wall" ON THE CONDITION that not one dime could be spent on anything related to "The Wall" UNTIL AFTER 100% of the land needed had been arranged for AND the complete set of construction blueprints had been finished AND 100% of the needed supplies had been arranged for?

My suspicion is that that would end up putting off completion of "The Wall" for about 15 years - which is likely to be no different than if all of the money was made available next Tuesday.

Ah yes...the finer details. So I can't tell you "walls work" and have that suffice?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Ah yes...the finer details. So I can't tell you "walls work" and have that suffice?

Some walls work, and others don't. Just ask the Chinese, East Germans, and people of Jericho.

PS - The current estimates for the cost of constructing "The Wall" are now about double what Mr. Trump says it will cost (and those estimates DO NOT include any maintenance allowance).