Trump wants NATO countries to spend more money to defend themselves against Russia, for whom he wants to lift sanctions

[jaypatriot]

You're talking about the guy handing Ukraine over to Putin.

Do you guys have no sense of irony?

Not all of Ukraine. Just parts of it.
Is there any way to stop Putin from gobbling up all of Ukraine?
If you know, please tell us.
There is no military solution to the Ukraine war unless NATO attacks Russia directly.

 

[Allan]

Not all of Ukraine. Just parts of it.

Appeasement.

 

[Quag]

Trump's word is like him worthless

 

[Quag]

Not all of Ukraine. Just parts of it.
Is there any way to stop Putin from gobbling up all of Ukraine?
If you know, please tell us.
There is no military solution to the Ukraine war unless NATO attacks Russia directly.

Yes continue to support Ukraine until Russia collapses and shows Putin the window
Why do you think appeasement will work this time when it has failed every other time it has been tried in the past?

 

[j brown's body]

Not all of Ukraine. Just parts of it.
Is there any way to stop Putin from gobbling up all of Ukraine?
If you know, please tell us.
There is no military solution to the Ukraine war unless NATO attacks Russia directly.

Trump could seal his peace deal with a $50B arms sale to Ukraine​

"The only way to stop Putin from doing this — and cement Trump’s legacy as a peacemaker — is to make sure Ukraine has a military deterrent so powerful that Russia would not dare attack again. A promise to sell U.S. weapons would give Ukraine confidence it could build that deterrent. Few countries possess the weapons systems Ukraine needs or the industrial capacity to produce them. And there is no doubt that China, Iran and North Korea — even if there is a peace agreement — will continue to provide robust assistance to Russia in preparation for its next attempt to conquer Ukraine.

Such arms sales would not only help secure peace in Ukraine but also benefit the U.S. by helping to revitalize our defense industrial base, which requires foreign military sales to keep production lines hot."

Link

 

[Allan]

Trump could seal his peace deal with a $50B arms sale to Ukraine​

"The only way to stop Putin from doing this — and cement Trump’s legacy as a peacemaker — is to make sure Ukraine has a military deterrent so powerful that Russia would not dare attack again. A promise to sell U.S. weapons would give Ukraine confidence it could build that deterrent. Few countries possess the weapons systems Ukraine needs or the industrial capacity to produce them. And there is no doubt that China, Iran and North Korea — even if there is a peace agreement — will continue to provide robust assistance to Russia in preparation for its next attempt to conquer Ukraine.

Such arms sales would not only help secure peace in Ukraine but also benefit the U.S. by helping to revitalize our defense industrial base, which requires foreign military sales to keep production lines hot."

Link

See @jaypatriot - there are other solutions besides appeasement.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Reagan isn't around to lead us.
And dmpi is right. The EU has to grow up; stop wasting money on useless climate change programs; spend more money on defense; and work with NATO counties to create a unified defense against the most dictatorial and aggressive country in the world on par with China.

That is the opposite of Reagans approach.

 

[dmpi]

That is the opposite of Reagans approach.

Regan was 50 years ago. The world was vastly different. Quit living in the past.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Regan was 50 years ago. The world was vastly different. Quit living in the past.

The values are the same.

Reagan wouldn't recognize Trump and MAGA as Republican. You people have lost your way.

So you will never again claim to be the party of Reagan?

 

[dmpi]

The values are the same.

Reagan wouldn't recognize Trump and MAGA as Republican. You people have lost your way.

So you will never again claim to be the party of Reagan?

Vales are values. But the context and situation has vastly changed. Euorpe is perfectly capable of protecting itself and NATO should be funded and managed by the real stakeholders which is Euorpe.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Vales are values. But the context and situation has vastly changed.

not enough to change the values

Euorpe is perfectly capable of protecting itself and NATO should be funded and managed by the real stakeholders which is Euorpe.

That isn't the only point of NATO, it way more than that.

Reagan understood. MAGA does not.

Reagan would loathe MAGA.

Like Liz Chenney, and other real conservatives, he would oppose MAGA.

 

[jaypatriot]

Yes continue to support Ukraine until Russia collapses and shows Putin the window
Why do you think appeasement will work this time when it has failed every other time it has been tried in the past?

I don't believe Russia will collapse no matter how many weapons they are given. Ukrainian manpower cannot match what Russia can put into the field.

 

[jaypatriot]

Appeasement.

You want to see Ukraine fight the Russians to their last man?

 

[jaypatriot]

You're talking about the guy handing Ukraine over to Putin.

Do you guys have no sense of irony?

Do you have any sense of compassion for the thousands more Ukrainians who will die before there is a negotiated settlement?

 

[Allan]

Do you have any sense of compassion for the thousands more Ukrainians who will die before there is a negotiated settlement?

Spare us the virtue signaling. You and Donald don't care about Ukrainian lives.

 

[jaypatriot]

Spare us the virtue signaling. You and Donald don't care about Ukrainian lives.

Then why do you think Trump wants the war to end?
What's in it for him?

 

[Allan]

Then why do you think Trump wants the war to end?
What's in it for him?

His buddy gets to keep part of Ukraine.

 

[jaypatriot]

His buddy gets to keep part of Ukraine.

As detestable as that thought is, there is a grain of truth in it.
In his warped post-presidential mind, he could actually be thinking about scoring big real estate deals in Russia with the help of Putin's billionaire cronies.

 

[Quag]

I don't believe Russia will collapse no matter how many weapons they are given. Ukrainian manpower cannot match what Russia can put into the field.

Neither could Afghanistan
But in this case Russia is running out of modern weapons using civilian, cars, truck, motorcycles and scooters to launch attacks often with foreign soldiers. All while their economy is completely tanking
The claim that manpower gives Russia the win doesn't really hold water

 

[jaypatriot]

Neither could Afghanistan
But in this case Russia is running out of modern weapons using civilian, cars, truck, motorcycles and scooters to launch attacks often with foreign soldiers. All while their economy is completely tanking
The claim that manpower gives Russia the win doesn't really hold water

Yes, there are clear signs of Russia's military (material) weaknesses.
I want to see them weakened. But they still have the manpower available to keep attacking in the East in order to solidify its claims on the territory it currently controls.

 

[Quag]

Yes, there are clear signs of Russia's military (material) weaknesses.
I want to see them weakened. But they still have the manpower available to keep attacking in the East in order to solidify its claims on the territory it currently controls.

Attacking with less and less equipment means higher and higher losses often with little to no gains, that is not sustainable add that to the collapsing economy, guerilla warfare tactics and time is on Ukrianes side not Putin's
Look at Afghanistan, Russia has already suffered greater material and human losses in Ukriane than they did in Afghanistan

 

[jaypatriot]

Attacking with less and less equipment means higher and higher losses often with little to no gains, that is not sustainable add that to the collapsing economy, guerilla warfare tactics and time is on Ukrianes side not Putin's
Look at Afghanistan, Russia has already suffered greater material and human losses in Ukriane than they did in Afghanistan

You believe Putin is concerned with losing thousands more soldiers? He's only up to about 800,000 soldiers lost already.
He can get more cannon fodder from Siberia.
And more missiles from Iran and N Korea as long as he can sell oil and gas for cash to pay weapons suppliers.

 

[Quag]

You believe Putin is concerned with losing thousands more soldiers? He's only up to about 800,000 soldiers lost already.

No, never pretended Putin gave a crap about anyone

He can get more cannon fodder from Siberia.

Equipment and money to pay the fodder are the larger issue

And more missiles from Iran and N Korea as long as he can sell oil and gas for cash to pay weapons suppliers.

They havent proven to be overly effective and Ukriane has done a fair job damaging Russia's oil infrastructure

The number of people that could be used as fodder is irrelevant if Putin cant pay or equip them. Economic woes, mounting casualties and no victory or even end of the war are all things that can topple even fascist dictatorships

 

[jaypatriot]

No, never pretended Putin gave a crap about anyone

Equipment and money to pay the fodder are the larger issue

They havent proven to be overly effective and Ukriane has done a fair job damaging Russia's oil infrastructure

The number of people that could be used as fodder is irrelevant if Putin cant pay or equip them. Economic woes, mounting casualties and no victory or even end of the war are all things that can topple even fascist dictatorships

I am a big fan of Ukraine killing more Russians than vice versa.
But the numbers were always stacked against Ukraine.
There is no evidence Ukraine is winning the battle on the ground. That's why Putin continues to fight the land battle in order to be in a more advantageous position when peace discussions start in earnest.

 

[Quag]

I am a big fan of Ukraine killing more Russians than vice versa.
But the numbers were always stacked against Ukraine.
There is no evidence Ukraine is winning the battle on the ground. That's why Putin continues to fight the land battle in order to be in a more advantageous position when peace discussions start in earnest.

There is no evidence that Putins population superiority in is going to let him win.

Russian Military Manpower After Two and a Half Years of War in Ukraine | Ifri

In addition to a military victory in Ukraine, the Russian leadership is planning to build up sizable troop formations for a possible conflict with NATO in the Baltic region and the Kola Peninsula. In particular, current plans aim for the military manpower to grow by about 350,000, reaching a...

www.ifri.org

The irrecoverable personnel losses per month of about 30,000 soldiers in 2024 are about equivalent to the influx of contract soldiers and volunteers, constituting the combat-capable core of the Russian military manpower over the same period. In turn, the implementation of this new wave of mobilization is being postponed due to the Kremlin’s concerns about potentially negative domestic political consequences, as well as the lack of command personnel and weapons for new units. By and large, the longer the war in Ukraine lasts, the more the Russian military machine deteriorates.

Putin continues to fight because the life expectancy of dictators who start and lose wars tends to be very short. Eventualy if Ukraine continues to deny Putin his victory the Russian people will have had enough and will show him the window