Trump Shifts Deportation Focus, Pausing Raids on Farms, Hotels and Eateries

[RetiredAtLast]

..but guess where all of the parts were sourced from and where the rare earth minerals used to make the chips were from.

The operative word is, "were." This country has large reserves of the rare earth minerals needed for the processes, operating in California and unexploited sites in Texas and Montana. Add that to new or expanded chip making factories such as Nvidia, Micron, TSMC and our dependence on Asian sources is markedly diminished.

 

[ElChupacabra]

The operative word is, "were." This country has large reserves of the rare earth minerals needed for the processes, operating in California and unexploited sites in Texas and Montana. Add that to new or expanded chip making factories such as Nvidia, Micron, TSMC and our dependence on Asian sources is markedly diminished.

None of this has any bearing on the devices you mentioned since those were produced before any talks of manufacturing more of those devices here even started. Our dependence on Asian sources is not markedly diminished yet, and based on the deal framework this administration worked out with China, it looks like that won't be that drastically diminished either.

 

[RetiredAtLast]

None of this has any bearing on the devices you mentioned since those were produced before any talks of manufacturing more of those devices here even started

That, my friend, is why I emphasized the word, "were."

Our dependence on Asian sources is not markedly diminished yet,

We'll just have to hope that the environuts (as distinguished from sincere environmentalists) don't get in the way so that our recovery from Biden can proceed.

based on the deal framework this administration worked out with China, it looks like that won't be that drastically diminished either

The China deal doesn't prevent anything we want to do here.

 

[ElChupacabra]

That, my friend, is why I emphasized the word, "were."

We'll just have to hope that the environuts (as distinguished from sincere environmentalists) don't get in the way so that our recovery from Biden can proceed.

The China deal doesn't prevent anything we want to do here.

No, but it certainly signals that we will still be sourcing from them because the reality is we can't just magically replicate what's taken them years to build.

 

[Kelby]

No, but it certainly signals that we will still be sourcing from them because the reality is we can't just magically replicate what's taken them years to build.

You don't say?

 

[RetiredAtLast]

No, but it certainly signals that we will still be sourcing from them because the reality is we can't just magically replicate what's taken them years to build.

"The longest journey begins with a single step." Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

We now have a President who's willing and able to take that step, and to encourage the investment to make it successful. Just three chip manufacturers have committed $800 billion to make the journey.

 

[ElChupacabra]

You don't say?

I do.

 

[ElChupacabra]

"The longest journey begins with a single step." Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

We now have a President who's willing and able to take that step, and to encourage the investment to make it successful. Just three chip manufacturers have committed $800 billion to make the journey.

Lest we forget the CHIPS Act.

 

[RetiredAtLast]

Lest we forget the CHIPS Act.

The CHIPS Act was a $280 billion government spending program, just over half of the $500 billion Nvidia will be spending of it's own money, and not to mention what other chip, supercomputer and AI companies have already lined up to do. CHIPS was nice, but tiny. Oh, and it did nothing about rare earth minerals.

 

[ElChupacabra]

The CHIPS Act was a $280 billion government spending program, just over half of the $500 billion Nvidia will be spending of it's own money, and not to mention what other chip, supercomputer and AI companies have already lined up to do. CHIPS was nice, but tiny. Oh, and it did nothing about rare earth minerals.

As opposed to what this administration's done? As for rare earth minerals, that's not ramping up any time soon and companies are going to go where there is already a supply which right now is China. Given rare earth minerals are part of the proposed trade deal with China, the US will still be competing with China for them.

 

[ncguy]

"The longest journey begins with a single step." Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

We now have a President who's willing and able to take that step, and to encourage the investment to make it successful. Just three chip manufacturers have committed $800 billion to make the journey.

Yes, bidens chip act was a step forward

 

[ncguy]

The CHIPS Act was a $280 billion government spending program, just over half of the $500 billion Nvidia will be spending of it's own money, and not to mention what other chip, supercomputer and AI companies have already lined up to do. CHIPS was nice, but tiny. Oh, and it did nothing about rare earth minerals.

Nvidia will be spending? Or.. could be
The company said it plans to produce up to $500 billion of AI

Up to.

 

[George50]

The CHIPS Act was a $280 billion government spending program, just over half of the $500 billion Nvidia will be spending of it's own money, and not to mention what other chip, supercomputer and AI companies have already lined up to do. CHIPS was nice, but tiny. Oh, and it did nothing about rare earth minerals.

Not even close on Nvidia.

The 500 billion is not what Nvidia is going to spend of their own money, it is product they expect to sell.

The $500 billion figure refers to the combined value of all the goods Nvidia anticipates selling in to the supply chain for AI. In large part, the number reflects a commitment from the biggest cloud computing companies to build out and upgrade data centers with the latest gear.

That group, which includes Microsoft Corp., Amazon.com Inc. and Meta Platforms Inc., is expected to spend $371 billion this year on AI facilities and computing resources, a jump of 44% from last year, according to a report published last month by Bloomberg Intelligence.

It also includes plans that were already underway.

Like other recent US investment pledges by large US tech companies, Nvidia’s outlay includes plans that were already underway.

Nvidia says it will build up to $500 billion of AI gear in U.S.

Production of Nvidia’s latest generation AI chip, known as Blackwell, has begun at Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co.’s new plant in Phoenix.

fortune.com

Also, your numbers on the CHIPS act are not accurate either.

The U.S. CHIPS Act committed $39 billion in incentives for semiconductor manufacturing, plus a separate advanced manufacturing investment tax credit.

Of course companies investing now will be able to take advantage of the tax credit.They will also be able to take advantage of money in the CHIPS act for education and training.

The act was really the CHIPS and science act, 174 billion of the 280 number you quoted was for science endeavors other than CHIP manufacturing.

Last year the Semiconductor Industry Association had already projected around $2.3 trillion in capex in 2024-2032, compared to $720 billion in the decade prior to enactment of the CHIPS Act (2013-2022).

Also as of last year companies in the semiconductor ecosystem had announced more than 80 new projects across 25 U.S. states—totaling nearly $450 billion in private investments—since the CHIPS Act was introduced.

America Projected to Triple Semiconductor Manufacturing Capacity by 2032, the Largest Rate of Growth in the World - Semiconductor Industry Association

U.S. forecast to increase its domestic chip manufacturing by 203% in the decade following enactment of the CHIPS and Science Act—and expand its share of the world’s total fab capacity for the first time in decades—according to new Semiconductor Industry Association/Boston Consulting Group report...

www.semiconductors.org

 

[RetiredAtLast]

Yes, bidens chip act was a step forward

A small one, but a step.

 

[RetiredAtLast]

The $500 billion figure refers to the combined value of all the goods Nvidia anticipates selling in to the supply chain for AI.

Or, "NVIDIA announced Monday that it will invest up to $500 billion over the next four years to build artificial intelligence (AI) infrastructure in the United States. " This reporting and the Fortune article indicate that Nvidia will spend $500 billion to build products for sale. That reads as if the $500 billion will be the cost, to Nvidia, of goods to be sold for a larger number.

Also, your numbers on the CHIPS act are not accurate either.

My number on the CHIPS Act was $280 billion. According to your comments, that is the correct amount of money the government will invest because of the CHIPS Act.
As for the other figures you refer to, they would be great if they happen. Your source is a year-old study that forecasts those results but, as you point out, only $450 billion in investment had been announced.

 

[snakestretcher]

Our phones were built in Vietnam. My laptop was built in India.

Since the first of this year, many companies are investing trillions of dollars to establish or expand manufacturing in this country. Because of the tariffs and the new, lower tax rate on US manufactured products, their products will have a pricing advantage.

Hmm. Some companies have pledged to invest, but that's very different from actual money in the bank. Furthermore the chaos and volatility Trump has created with his tariff flip flops has resulted in a great deal of stock market uncertainty about the future.

 

[ncguy]

Or, "NVIDIA announced Monday that it will invest up to $500 billion over the next four years to build artificial intelligence (AI) infrastructure in the United States. " This reporting and the Fortune article indicate that Nvidia will spend $500 billion to build products for sale. That reads as if the $500 billion will be the cost, to Nvidia, of goods to be sold for a larger number.

My number on the CHIPS Act was $280 billion. According to your comments, that is the correct amount of money the government will invest because of the CHIPS Act.
As for the other figures you refer to, they would be great if they happen. Your source is a year-old study that forecasts those results but, as you point out, only $450 billion in investment had been announced.

Up to.
So no commitment

 

[RetiredAtLast]

Furthermore the chaos and volatility Trump has created with his tariff flip flops has resulted in a great deal of stock market uncertainty about the future.

Yes, that was the case in early April. However, news about trade with the EU and China have pretty well settled that down.

 

[RetiredAtLast]

Up to.
So no commitment

Of course it's "up to." If costs go down over the next four years and the company can accomplish the desired results while investing something less, why wouldn't they?
Who would they "commit" to? And what would happen if they could spend less? Would they be punished?

 

[George50]

Or, "NVIDIA announced Monday that it will invest up to $500 billion over the next four years to build artificial intelligence (AI) infrastructure in the United States. " This reporting and the Fortune article indicate that Nvidia will spend $500 billion to build products for sale. That reads as if the $500 billion will be the cost, to Nvidia, of goods to be sold for a larger number.

Cost of goods sold is not an investment by Nvidia. Are you unaware of the difference between cost of goods sold and investment or are you just trying to amplify the con game that the Trump administration is trying to sell to the American people?

My number on the CHIPS Act was $280 billion. According to your comments, that is the correct amount of money the government will invest because of the CHIPS Act.

$280 billion is the total bill, but only $39 billion is earmarked towards actual semiconductor manufacturing investments.

As for the other figures you refer to, they would be great if they happen. Your source is a year-old study that forecasts those results but, as you point out, only $450 billion in investment had been announced.

Yes, you are correct. The Semiconductor Industry Association had forecasted a year ago what we are seeing now. The only thing they did not forecast was Trump trying to claim that he had waved some magic wand that cased what everyone knew was going to happen with AI progress.

What you call only $450 billion in investment as of last year due to $39 billion of seed money is not a bad return.

Claiming that Nvidia is going to invest $500 billion iis incorrect. The $500 billion figure refers to the combined value of all the goods Nvidia anticipates selling in to the supply chain for AI. The $450 billion generated by the CHIPS act is actual investment.

 

[RetiredAtLast]

Cost of goods sold is not an investment by Nvidia.

I'm very aware of the difference between a capital investment and the cost of goods sold. However, you muddied that water when you described your version of the Fortune article and wrote, "The $500 billion figure refers to the combined value of all the goods Nvidia anticipates selling..." Income from sales can't be considered an investment. However, the cost of goods to be sold (inventory) can be loosely considered an investment in anticipated, but not yet contracted, business. Obviously facilities, equipment and other start-up costs are.

$280 billion is the total bill, but only $39 billion is earmarked towards actual semiconductor manufacturing investments.

Hence, my comment that it was "tiny."

What you call only $450 billion in investment as of last year due to $39 billion of seed money is not a bad return.

$39 billion is the amount of cash. An unknown amount is the tax avoidance. Most of the $450 billion, however, is the necessary cost of being involved in a technology that's inescapable. And that raises the issue of whether the US will be involved heavily in that technology, By lowering manufacturing taxes and imposing tariffs on imported products, Trump has incentivized US involvement.