Trump Says You Need an ID to Buy Groceries. Shoppers Say, ‘Huh?’

[Praxas]

Congratulations. The merchant in many of these cases is BREAKING THE LAW. Compositional error fallacy.

No, they aren't. I am 44 years old, they aren't breaking the law. What a nimwit comment you just made.

Another compositional error fallacy. Already discussed in another post.

Nope I proved above your comments are full of ****.

He is not wrong.

Yes he is because I have just PROVEN that you can grocery shop and NOT show your ID.

You really hate Trump, don't you? Did you know that most things aren't a legal contract that requires every 'i' to be dotted and every 't' to be crossed? Did you know that even such contracts often leave things out or unsaid, yet a judge will enforce it anyway as 'common knowledge'?

What's that got to do with Trump being wrong? You'll do anything to defend your master Trump. Please go back "Into the Night" and get a clue.

 

[roguenuke]

That's because YOU ALREADY SHOWED THEM when you applied for the mortgage! Most banks won't loan you any money until they see some picture ID. Banks won't even let you open an account without picture ID anymore.

The only exception were those mortgages that were handed out like candy to every Tom, Dick, and Harry that eventually resulted in the 2008 crash.

She's not on my mortgage. Do you mean when she applied for the account? How do I know she is really the person on the check without a picture ID? Additionally, what if she had the same name as someone else?

You are straying very far from the content of the arguments being made about Trump's comment. He is out of touch with the real world. It is that simple. He does not realize that most people do not have to show a picture ID to purchase most groceries (most people do not buy alcohol and/or cigarettes every time or even most of the time they are making a purchase) or most anything else. There are some few exceptions, which are easily avoided. Hell, even when purchasing alcohol, many adults do not have to show ID.

 

[roguenuke]

Compositional error fallacy. The store that you worked in is not the same procedure at all stores.

It easily represents the majority of what people see, very few people use checks, particularly to purchase goods/groceries. The majority of check usage is going to be for bill/debt payment, and a good percentage of that is done via the mail, not in person, so the person would not actually be showing ID to use their check to make a payment.

https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/payment-method-statistics-1276.php

The above are statistics on different payment methods at different retailers. To get check usage, just add up the percentages and subtract from 100, and that is the absolute most percentage of purchases made by checks (keep in mind, gift cards are also a payment method being utilized and not mentioned in that study, but would account for some of that percent differential, especially in coffee shops, other dining places, and even some retailers).

 

[roguenuke]

Yes they do.

If you have the card and the PIN, you ARE that person's ID in front of most merchants.

But you legally do not have to be the person on that card to use it. My husband can legally use my debit card and PIN. He certainly is not actually me. His ID would be useless. Either of us can sign for the pizza that is bought with our cards, and we certainly do not show ID (hell, I generally sign my name even if we used his card).

 

[roguenuke]

You forgot pin, something you put angels on the head of;
pin, a pointy thing you use as a temporary holding device while basting or sewing.

People who check picture ID often DO check to see if it's real or not. A lot of picture ID has various embossments, holograms, or even chips that can be scanned in them, as well as the photo. Such checks are pretty quick and easy. You probably don't notice it's being done.

What is often? Most stores do not train their personnel to recognize a fake ID. I can tell you from very recent experience (just a few days ago) that if you are checking a lot of IDs, you are not going to be looking that closely, especially not to see if it is real or not. So long as it looks pretty similar to the person and the name is correct (for what you are checking for), good, go.

 

[roguenuke]

The card itself is ID. The credit card company will discourage requiring picture ID for transactions up to a certain point. They are willing to accept the risk of losses for these amounts caused by a stolen card for YOUR convenience. That could change at any time.

The card is not an ID, not in the way it was put out by Trump and the issue he brought it up in relation to. If so, are you saying that I can simply provide a credit card at the voting booth?

 

[roguenuke]

You do in some places. Hawaii, for instance. The price you pay is determined by the ID you give. It must be a picture ID.

For transactions below a certain amount. That may change. Already addressed.

Nope. He doesn't get to keep your ID.

He made a general statement that intended to show that voter ID is not as bad as you think it is. That is not 'bonehead'. Why are so fixated on this? THAT's boneheaded!

Having lived in Hawaii, I can tell you you are very wrong about this. I lived there for 3 years and did not have to show ID except when I went to the commissary. Do you really think he was talking about military, who are issued an ID from the moment they join the military on tax payer dime?

 

[year2late]

You do in some places. Hawaii, for instance. The price you pay is determined by the ID you give. It must be a picture ID.

So, if you do not show a picture ID, you cannot buy groceries? Prove it.

Trump said you NEED picture ID to buy groceries. He was speaking generally, not specifically.

But again, I will wait for you to show me that if you do not show ID you cannot buy groceries in Hawaii (or anywhere in the US for that matter - but you were clear about Hawaii)


I will repeat. This should have been a cute thread about an out of touch millionaire...same could be said of many other very rich people.

But the back flips are interesting to watch.

 

[year2late]

Nope. He doesn't get to keep your ID.

What a weird comment, really. One of the points of ID not being required for credit card purchases is so the guy at Piggly Wiggly cannot gain the information from your ID and use it. Credit card numbers plus other personal identifiers is a bad combo.

That is why Visa, Mastercard, American Express do not require IDs to be shown. In fact outside of a few instances - refusal to show ID can not be a reason to refuse the charge. (failure to sign your card is one reason)

 

[Stymie_X]

?????
Makes no sense at all, thanks for the laugh.

 

[Stymie_X]

What does PIN stand for? What does it matter officer? Personal ID Number.

How does that prove ID? I stand behind you, watch you use it, then follow you outside, take it, use it...

Or I watch you use it on camera...how does a PIN prove identity?

If you were asking an honest question I apologize for not simply answering. I've asked people honestly and not been given answers so please excuse me if you were merely seeking an answer...
Like this, again...How does a PIN prove identity?

 

[Into the Night]

More backflips.

He stated AN ID WITH A PICTURE.

You cannot stand it when Dear Leader makes a simple faux pas, can you.:lamo

And that is all it was, a simple faux pas....it is the folks that are doing back flips to show Dear Leader could never make a simple mistake that are the real sideshow in this.:lamo

More grammar cop stuff.

 

[Into the Night]

Where is your evidence that this is happening in any significant amount?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/08/politics/kris-kobach-trump-commission-voter-fraud/index.html

There is no evidence that it is any sort of a widespread problem. In fact, from the Heritage Foundations database itself, most of the cases appear to involve a person who had an ID card for the person whom they voted under or they sent in an absentee ballot. Are you going to outlaw absentee ballots as well?

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search

Look through the database. There are only a few cases where an ID card would have made a difference. Compared to how many people have voted in the time frame they are presenting, it is extremely small. When people have been caught voting for dead people, they almost always had an ID for that person with their picture on it. They had that person's birth certificate and/or SS card.

You also seem to be lacking in integrity, because my posts have not read as you are trying to present them, at all.

Speculative BS. This is not data.

Hiring illegals to vote, dead people voting, 'finding' ballots at the last minute that always seem to help the Democrats, etc.; and you just ignore this because CNN puts out another fake news story. Talk about selective memory!:roll:

 

[Into the Night]

It is used for some things yes, but not EVERYWHERE. I've listed the times I have not had to use ID for the things trump claimed.

Grammar cop stuff.

The majority kept their doctors so it wasn't a lie then. And most WERE able to still afford their insurance.

No, they weren't. Many couldn't even SEE a doctor anymore. They couldn't get insurance anymore, thanks to ObamaCare.

Nope using YOUR standards, you say that just because there a SOME examples of needing an ID that Trump saying you need one to grocery shop doesn't make it a lie. Yet Obama's comment about keeping your doctor the majority did so that isn't a lie then using YOUR logic. You'll do anything to defend your master Trump.

More grammar cop stuff.

 

[Into the Night]

No, they aren't.

Yes they are. They are in many cases breaking the law.

I am 44 years old,

Irrelevant.

they aren't breaking the law. What a nimwit comment you just made.

They are. Check the laws.

Nope I proved above your comments are full of ****.

You proved nothing. You made a compositional error fallacy. A fallacy is not a proof. It is not even an valid argument.

Yes he is because I have just PROVEN that you can grocery shop and NOT show your ID.

Grammar cop stuff.

What's that got to do with Trump being wrong? You'll do anything to defend your master Trump. Please go back "Into the Night" and get a clue.

Insult fallacy. Grammar cop stuff. Trump is not wrong.

 

[Into the Night]

She's not on my mortgage.

Irrelevant. Who is 'she'?

Do you mean when she applied for the account?

Irrelevant. Who is 'she'?

How do I know she is really the person on the check without a picture ID?

Non-sequitur. Mortgages don't have checks.

Additionally, what if she had the same name as someone else?

Irrelevant. Who is 'she'?

You are straying very far from the content of the arguments being made about Trump's comment.

Inversion fallacy. You are also suddenly talking some kind of 'she'. Contextomy fallacy. Strawman fallacy.

He is out of touch with the real world. It is that simple.

Not at all. His argument is quite sound. You're just being a grammar cop.

He does not realize that most people do not have to show a picture ID to purchase most groceries (most people do not buy alcohol and/or cigarettes every time or even most of the time they are making a purchase) or most anything else.

Grammar cop argument.

There are some few exceptions, which are easily avoided. Hell, even when purchasing alcohol, many adults do not have to show ID.

Depends on where you are. Grammar cop argument.

 

[Into the Night]

It easily represents the majority of what people see, very few people use checks, particularly to purchase goods/groceries. The majority of check usage is going to be for bill/debt payment, and a good percentage of that is done via the mail, not in person, so the person would not actually be showing ID to use their check to make a payment.

Compositional error fallacy. The store that you worked in is not the same procedure at all stores.

...deleted redundant Holy Link...
The above are statistics on different payment methods at different retailers. To get check usage, just add up the percentages and subtract from 100, and that is the absolute most percentage of purchases made by checks (keep in mind, gift cards are also a payment method being utilized and not mentioned in that study, but would account for some of that percent differential, especially in coffee shops, other dining places, and even some retailers).

Irrelevant. The number of stores using your procedure doesn't mean anything to Trump's argument. You are being a grammar cop.

 

[Into the Night]

But you legally do not have to be the person on that card to use it. My husband can legally use my debit card and PIN. He certainly is not actually me. His ID would be useless. Either of us can sign for the pizza that is bought with our cards, and we certainly do not show ID (hell, I generally sign my name even if we used his card).

As far as the merchant is concerned, that IS the ID. Just because you have no problem with ID fraud that's your business. It does not change Trumps completely valid argument.

 

[Big Ed]

Try to purchase a car, prescription drugs, or cash a check without a picture ID and see what you end-up with - empty hands!!

If a person can get a picture ID and claim unemployment, then they should (and can) get a picture ID to vote with. Dems don't want picture IDs so people from outside the voting area can vote, illegitimate (dead, illegal immigrants, felons, etc.) individuals vote, and so their supporters can go to multiple polling locations and vote - The Dem's moto - "Vote early - vote often."

 

[Into the Night]

What is often? Most stores do not train their personnel to recognize a fake ID. I can tell you from very recent experience (just a few days ago) that if you are checking a lot of IDs, you are not going to be looking that closely, especially not to see if it is real or not. So long as it looks pretty similar to the person and the name is correct (for what you are checking for), good, go.

Compositional error involving people as the class...bigotry.

Actually plenty of stores DO not only train their clerks to check ID, but implement policies to require their clerks to do so. They require their clerks to check cash for validity also and also train them in that.

Sometimes they must check every transaction, other times they must check at least every 10 transactions. It varies.

 

[Into the Night]

The card is not an ID, not in the way it was put out by Trump and the issue he brought it up in relation to. If so, are you saying that I can simply provide a credit card at the voting booth?

Nope. You have to provide your voter ID. Why do you have a problem with putting a picture on it?

 

[Into the Night]

Having lived in Hawaii, I can tell you you are very wrong about this. I lived there for 3 years and did not have to show ID except when I went to the commissary. Do you really think he was talking about military, who are issued an ID from the moment they join the military on tax payer dime?

Then you paid the higher rate. Frankly, I don't think you understand Hawaii much at all.

I lived there also. It wasn't on a military base.

 

[Into the Night]

So, if you do not show a picture ID, you cannot buy groceries? Prove it.

Only at much higher prices. I am not going to pay for your trip to Hawaii or for a place for you to live there. You go prove it on your own dime.

Trump said you NEED picture ID to buy groceries. He was speaking generally, not specifically.

Grammer cop stuff. You still fail to recognize the argument he was making. You are fixated on grammar cop stuff.

But again, I will wait for you to show me that if you do not show ID you cannot buy groceries in Hawaii (or anywhere in the US for that matter - but you were clear about Hawaii)

Travel on your own dime. You are making an argument of ignorance fallacy.

I will repeat. This should have been a cute thread about an out of touch millionaire...same could be said of many other very rich people.

Bulverism fallacy coupled with grammar cop stuff.

But the back flips are interesting to watch.

Grammar cop stuff.

 

[Into the Night]

What a weird comment, really. One of the points of ID not being required for credit card purchases is so the guy at Piggly Wiggly cannot gain the information from your ID and use it. Credit card numbers plus other personal identifiers is a bad combo.

That is why Visa, Mastercard, American Express do not require IDs to be shown. In fact outside of a few instances - refusal to show ID can not be a reason to refuse the charge. (failure to sign your card is one reason)

AMEX doesn't even try such a policy. In several States implementing such a policy is illegal. That clause in the contract is null and void.

You are still fixated on grammer cop stuff. Trump made a perfectly valid argument. You are fixated on grammar cop stuff.

 

[roguenuke]

Speculative BS. This is not data.

Hiring illegals to vote, dead people voting, 'finding' ballots at the last minute that always seem to help the Democrats, etc.; and you just ignore this because CNN puts out another fake news story. Talk about selective memory!:roll:

That is not even what the Heritage Foundation found in their very report. I linked to it. And the Heritage Foundation is a highly conservative think tank who is pushing for those voter ID laws. It doesn't take selective memory, only reading comprehension.