Trump says he ‘couldn’t care less’ if auto prices rise because of tariffs

[Chomsky]

His whole tariff program doesn't make sense though. It's not targeted to specifically increase manufacturing. In fact he is raising the cost of manufacturing by increasing the cost of raw materials. This isn't a coordinated, targeted, sensible idea to increase American jobs. It's chaos that could send the economy into a tailspin before we see any jobs created.

Trump's targeting Elon Musk's car company gaining advantage.

 

[Chomsky]

You don't get it.

Trump and his allies are trying to replace income taxes for the rich with consumption taxes for the poor and middle class.

And while this is happening he is going to destroy the government goods and services that regular people rely on.

And while this is happening he is going to crash the economy through his erratic, off-again-on-again tariff policies.

Trump doesn't care about you. He doesn't care about any of us.

Bingo!

 

[Chomsky]

Right. But supply will lag demand. So prices will still go up.

First because supply won’t ramp up that fast. Automakers won’t increase supply in the us until the demand reaches a level where people are turning back to other products.
Why? Because increasing supply is expensive.
More workers with already low unemployment, more equipment, raw materials etc. all represent cost and take time.



In your egg example, you had an EXISTING supply chain simply ship more eggs to the us.
Ironically from another country that produced eggs cheaper.
And look how long it took for prices to begin to drop.

Now your expectation is that American automakers are going to put in new manufacturing line in . At massive cost.
Because of tariffs that could last 2months 4 months maybe even 4 years and that’s likely it?
Come now.

Exactly. Supply will only increase if demand exceeds supply. This is the essence of the Supply-Demand Curve.

 

[Trumpetman]

This theory only goes so far, but I do thank you for bringing it to my attention.

But then we're doing more expensive repairs, and the parts for even current repairs go up with tariffs - too.

There's no way out from what Trump is doing to us.

And having us keep our breaking-down junks longer on the road with more costly repairs, is hardly what we want to hear from our President.

But, I do indeed recall another President telling his citizenry to do just what you're suggesting:

Showing us an example of how leftism works in Cuba sure isn't a winning argument against Trump.

The market is dynamic.

Honestly on a bit of a digression and as a person who likes to keep things and not just trash and replace them, I'm old enough to remember when shops for transmission and engine rebuilds were plentiful. The belief that everythng should have a failure point and just be tossed is probably the least green mindset I can imagine.

The beautiful car you highlight in the photo above can still do the job. Obviously in the United States we would it be replaced and recycling into something more safe in this day and age but airbags, crumple zones and other such features are decades old now.

I personally own a 10 year old Rav4 that runs like the day it came off the line. I replaced the stereo with something more modern but otherwise it's great. I have a 20 year old pick up though that is seldom used for more than just occasional towing. It has had a sudden minor could be major issue and there simply arent' shops around anymore that can rebuild the entire motor for say, $5000 total with the parts being $1000 of that and the rest being labor.

Much like your iPhone, the battery goes bad and you don't replace the battery, you replace the entire phone because cheap financing (literally zero interest) will allow you to just pay off the new one and toss away the old one.

The deeper point is it isn't tossed. Apple takes it and sells it in another part of the world for cheaper and as refurbished which is why they give you a trade in on it but if we don't take that path, we can go back to the former path of... putting a new battery in not financing a new phone. We can put new motors in. There's money to be made. The movers and shakers will find a way to make it and the looters will be made.

 

[jaeger19]

Well to address your point, American automakers have a lot of manufacturing here that is not new, but has been taken offline because they are shipping the jobs else where. However there is also the fact that this is NEARSHORING as they say. They could literally, if they chose simply build the same factory quickly on the other side of the border and move over the equipment. They already did that in one direction, they can do it in the other.

Weird how the only solutions the left ever endorses only work in one direction.

Also the egg drop was relatively quick from my perspective.

Finally you talk about the tariffs and uncertainty. Apple has been diligently working to expand their base of manufacturing. Single source for your entire supply chain when you are a multinational corporation is just bad business. Claiming Trump might be unpredictable sound ridiculous if you realize the rest of the world can be as well.

They could quickly build a factory and move the equipment in. Lmao.
Sure. Millions of dollars, perhaps billions because of tariffs that might end in two weeks or 4 years.
On demand that they not even sure will materialize.




Come now.

 

[Trumpetman]

How many years before the supply side for auto manufacturers catches up if all parts need to be made in the USA? post 286

If you don't want to answer the question, just say so.

I don't think it would be years.

Ever been to a pick a part? The second more money can be made from refurbish and repair than just scrap metal then there will be a quick turn around in maintaining and improving current vehicles on top of the ability to reimport used vehicles from nearby countries.

Do the tariffs effect used cars? Used parts? Rebuilt parts?

They don't. Big market opportunity there that will fill the gap.

 

[BirdinHand]

They could quickly build a factory and move the equipment in. Lmao.
Sure. Millions of dollars, perhaps billions because of tariffs that might end in two weeks or 4 years.

Come now.

It’s amazing how stupid it sounds, isn’t it?

Just quick build a new plant

 

[Michael Cole]

They don't need to build new or modify existing facilities. Modern facilities were built for flex production. This has been going on for many years now. For instance, here's what Honda was doing a decade ago:

Flexibility to Meet Customer Demand Honda 's North American automobile assembly plants are operating with an unprecedented level of flexibility to meet customer demand. Honda has nine North American auto assembly lines at seven plant sites, producing 16 distinct Honda and Acura models. All of Honda 's North American assembly lines are producing multiple vehicles on each line. By designing flexibility into each line, Honda is able to balance consumer demand with production. Additional benefits include workforce stability and efficient use of resources.

From 2021:

VW and Ford invest in flexible production for an uncertain future

From a few weeks ago:

The next-generation Honda Civic will reportedly be made in the U.S. as Trump tariffs add $4,000 to the price tag of Mexico-made cars

The adjustments have already been being made by companies for months, but some of you just aren't paying attention.

Volkswagen's Audi will expand output in North America and Mercedes will boost its U.S. production as Europe's carmakers try to protect themselves against U.S. President Donald Trump's tariff threats.

The stories of the shifting automaker production landscape are all over the place. All one has to do is look.

These plants are designed based on market trends. They can ramp only to capacity, and without the percentage of excess capacity, combined with what's needed to equal imports, the links are meaningless. Modern design is modular. Plants are designed to essentially turn on and off in sections, as needed. This does not mean that Tesla can suddenly take on the level of imported batteries all by itself.

Tesla is a perfect example of modern manufacturing. The company is masterful at plant construction - no credit to Elon Musk. The plants themselves are modular buildings. This is a shot of the plant now under construction. Each section is independent of the others. The only connections are the roof caps, and interior/exterior walls. Structurally, each section is independent. The first column went up last summer, and the progress has been record setting. I will give credit where it's due.



The announcement for the truck this plant will produce was made in 2017. Eight years ago. These things take time.

Anyway, back to modular efficiency. The building in the rear above manufactures batteries. Cells (manufactured by Panasonic), and several battery packs used and sold by Tesla. The plant has experienced various levels of production, but has generally operated at capacity. The amount of imports it could replace is minimal if anything.

What matters to companies is logistics. No one is going to build a distribution center in Alaska or Hawaii. Likewise, no one is going to build a pineapple canning plant in Maine (they barely can sardines anymore.)

Joe Biden approved the Thacker Pass lithium mine a while back. Ironically, the mine is owned by a Canadian company. Good ol' Joe Biden gettin' them Canadians to invest in America. Funny, yes?

The closest manufacturing to this mine is...wait for it...the industrial area where Tesla is located. Do you think Musk counted on being close to the lithium or did he just take advantage of the state's business friendly environment and tax giveaways? No matter. His battery factory is close to the lithium. Logistics.

Interestingly, another battery manufacturer, Silicon Valley startup Lyten, announced its own gigafactory last year. It expects phase one to complete in 2027. Three years. Not bad. Certainly a tad more than a couple months.

PRESS RELEASE: Lyten Announces Plans to Build the World’s First Lithium-Sulfur Battery Gigafactory in Nevada

lyten.com

Lyten has developed a lithium-sulfur battery technology that uses 100% domestic sourced material. Once the lithium mine begins production, anyway, which should be late next year. Lyten's decision obviously included the same business-friendly environment as Musk's but they also chose to be close to the lithium. The logistics of lithium are about to change. Rather than talk like a crazy man wanting to invade Greenland, why doesn't Trump focus on the minerals we already have?

 

[Captain Adverse]

This is what you get when one takes a snippet of a conversation out of context...and then engages in spin, speculation, innuendo and hyperbole.

Exactly.

Tariffs only apply to vehicles made outside the USA. They do not apply to those made IN the USA. Trump's stated goal for tariffs like those on automobiles is to do exactly what European nations do to cars made in the USA and sent for sale in their markets. Price them out of their citizens ability or desire to pay.

So, he is doing that to their foreign made products, including cars. All they have to do is build the factories in the USA and any cars made here by U.S. labor won't have tariffs on them.

That's going to help American consumers in the long run. Meanwhile, there are still cars made in the USA that citizens can buy that are not hindered by tariffs.

 

[Michael Cole]

My guess is that the tariff thing by Trump, coupled with his plans to continue cuts or increase cuts in income taxes at the upper end, with decreasing IRS staff, are just his ways of pushing distribution of income upward, with the rest of us picking up the slack. A tariff is like a sales tax, with the same regressive effect.

What are others’ theories or guesses as to Trump and tariffs?

That's project 2025's plan, yes. Trump is just playing king of the world in his tiny little head. Some say that's winning. I call it TDS.

 

[mike2810]

Exactly!

Americans better buy their American cars, because no one else will!

As for me, there's no way I'm buying American junk for my daily transportation needs. If it ain't a toy, like a Vette or Camaro, I buy Toyota.

And I keep them, literally, for decades. In fact, they never die. I hand them down, when I get tired of driving the same thing year after year.

Last year I bought a new car. Was not using my 8 year old 4x4 pickup as I use to. Decided I would like a very capable AWD SUV/wagon with good ride quality.
I looked at Ford, Chevy, GM, Toyota, Nissan and Subaru. After doing research on all wheel drive system, reviewing online road/off road test of the vehicles I was possible interested in and then taking test drives, I decided on a Subaru Outback Wilderness.

imo, none of the US big three had a AWD system that matched Subaru. Did not want the Ford Bronco sport has a very good drive system but was too short for my needs and not as good as ride as the Subaru.

I generally keep my vehicles 10 years. The Outback may be the last vehicle I purchase due to my age. imo, the Big 3 did not have a product that I wanted. I believe in fair trade. It is clear by the number of Toyota's and other foreign cars in the US that the US consumer likes them. They must be offering something that Ford, etc do not offer.

Trump is going to bring down the economy if the keeps this Trade war bs going. I am not buying his reasoning of illegal drugs and people crossing into the US for all what he is doing.
I do not like the "little inconvenience" he believes we will have to endure which he believes we all will accept. Can't wait till Trump is gone.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

These plants are designed based on market trends. They can ramp only to capacity, and without the percentage of excess capacity, combined with what's needed to equal imports, the links are meaningless. Modern design is modular. Plants are designed to essentially turn on an off in sections, as needed. This does not mean that Tesla can suddenly take on the level of imported batteries all by itself.

Tesla is a perfect example of modern manufacturing. The company is masterful at plant construction - no credit to Elon Musk. The plants themselves are modular buildings. This is a shot of the plant now under construction. Each section is independent of the others. The only connections are the roof caps, and interior/exterior walls. Structurally, each section is independent. The first column went up last summer, and the progress has been record setting. I will give credit where it's due.

View attachment 67562958

The announcement for the truck this plant will produce was made on 2017. Eight years ago. These things take time.

Anyway, back to modular efficiency, the building in the rear above manufactures batteries. Cells (manufactured by Panasonic), and several battery packs used and sold by Tesla. The plant has experienced various levels of production, but has generally operated at capacity. The amount of imports it could replace is minimal if anything.

What matters to companies is logistics. No one is going to build a distribution center in Alaska or Hawaii. Likewise, no one is going to build a pineapple canning plant in Maine (they barely can sardines anymore.)

Joe Biden approved the Thacker Pass lithium mine a while back. Ironically, the mine is owned by a Canadian company. Good ol' Joe Biden Gettin' them Canadians to invest in America. Funny, yes?

Anyway, the closest manifesting to this mine is...wait for it...the industrial area where Tesla is located. Do you think Musk counted on being close to the lithium or did he just take advantage of the state's business friendly environment and tax giveaways? No matter. His battery factory is close to the lithium. Logistics.

Interestingly, another battery manufacturer, Silicon Valley startup Lyten, announced its own gigafactory last year. It expects phase one to complete in 2027. Three years. Not bad. Certainly a tad more than a couple months.

PRESS RELEASE: Lyten Announces Plans to Build the World’s First Lithium-Sulfur Battery Gigafactory in Nevada

lyten.com

Lyten has developed a lithium-sulfur battery technology that uses 100% domestic sourced material. Once the lithium mine begins production, anyway, which should be late next year. Lyten's decision obviously included the same business-friendly environment as Musk's but they also chose to be close to the lithium. The logistics of lithium are about to change. rather than talk like a crazy man wanting to invade Greenland, why doesn't Trump focus on the minerals we already have?

Thank you for this thoughtful and well written post.

 

[Trumpetman]

They could quickly build a factory and move the equipment in. Lmao.
Sure. Millions of dollars, perhaps billions because of tariffs that might end in two weeks or 4 years.
On demand that they not even sure will materialize.

Come now.

The uncertainty is being generated by the media, not the American people.

How unhinged has the left become that they think making "the rich" aka big multinational corporations to focus on something beside the bottom line and focus their employment, resources and supply chain locally are all now bad things.

Trump is going to have you all burning down factories in a couple months just to prove him wrong.

 

[SMTA]

Motorcrat alternators are not increasing. And they will be cheaper than the foriegn made ones

WINNING

Typical clueless and ****ing stupid post.

 

[Chomsky]

They already have the plants, so they don't have to build new ones.



Not if production is shifted. Do you know how often production mixes are shifted by automakers in their plants? Do you even know what "production mix" means?

With 50% of vehicles manufactured outside this country, there is no way we have the current physical plants to double current production, which is what it would take to wean ourselves from imported vehicles.

I assume parts sourcing may be even worse than 50% domestic content, which would require in excess of doubling physical capacity.

In addition, this is assuming a perfectly elastic fungible market. Some of us will simply not be forced into buying American junk for our required daily transportation needs. I, and many like me, refuse to throw our hard-earned money at unreliable vehicles. They are not worth it, at any price. I know, from experience.

No matter how you cut it, we are in for a long-haul in inflated vehicle prices - should these tariffs take place.

 

[Callen]

Tariffs only apply to vehicles made outside the USA. They do not apply to those made IN the USA

The tariffs apply to auto parts made outside the US and used in American assembly. No car assembled in the US is assembled without parts from Canada and Mexico. Cars assembled in America won't go up 25% but they most assuredly will go up.

 

[Yes_Minister]

Exactly.

Tariffs only apply to vehicles made outside the USA. They do not apply to those made IN the USA. Trump's stated goal for tariffs like those on automobiles is to do exactly what European nations do to cars made in the USA and sent for sale in their markets. Price them out of their citizens ability or desire to pay.

So, he is doing that to their foreign made products, including cars. All they have to do is build the factories in the USA and any cars made here by U.S. labor won't have tariffs on them.

That's going to help American consumers in the long run. Meanwhile, there are still cars made in the USA that citizens can buy that are not hindered by tariffs.

So Canada is not allowed to have its own manufacturing sector? We have off load our entire manufacturing sector to the US? Canada should just have mass unemployment? This is neither fair nor logical.

 

[BirdinHand]

Exactly.

Tariffs only apply to vehicles made outside the USA. They do not apply to those made IN the USA. Trump's stated goal for tariffs like those on automobiles is to do exactly what European nations do to cars made in the USA and sent for sale in their markets. Price them out of their citizens ability or desire to pay.

So, he is doing that to their foreign made products, including cars. All they have to do is build the factories in the USA and any cars made here by U.S. labor won't have tariffs on them.

That's going to help American consumers in the long run. Meanwhile, there are still cars made in the USA that citizens can buy that are not hindered by tariffs.

There is not one single vehicle that is made from 100% US parts.

And no company is going to onshore their manufacturing and supply chain 100%

You’ve been lied to if you think they will.


Trump will walk back these tariffs. He doesn’t have any other option.

 

[Chomsky]

Not by 25%

Not by 25%

How much are you willing to pay for the (MAGA) cause?

 

[mike2810]

I don't think it would be years.

time will tell, but I believe you will be wrong.

Ever been to a pick a part? The second more money can be made from refurbish and repair than just scrap metal then there will be a quick turn around in maintaining and improving current vehicles on top of the ability to reimport used vehicles from nearby countries.

Yes, I have been to junk yards to get parts.
You do realize that the parts tariffs that start in May will make US autos more expensive. It will also make maintaining US vehicles more expensive.

Do the tariffs effect used cars?

Most likely they will. As new vehicles become more expensive. One only has to look at what happened during Covid when there was a shortage of new vehicles. Used car prices rose.

Used parts?

Not sure. Possible they will go up. All depends on demand for the used part.

Rebuilt parts?

Not sure. All depends on where it is rebuilt. If not in the US and it is subject to the tariff for the rebuild, then yes prices will go up

They don't. Big market opportunity there that will fill the gap.

and it will take years to build up the manufacturing in the US
A chip plant in Arizona has had to delay getting up and running due to lack of qualified workers.

 

[radioman]

And having us keep our breaking-down junks longer on the road with more costly repairs, is hardly what we want to hear from our President.

But, I do indeed recall another President telling his citizenry to do just what you're suggesting:

Beautiful well-maintained car.......Viva Trump!!....Cuba Libres for everyone!!

 

[Chomsky]

The irony being GM is being screwed the most. Lost on maga in sure.

And (besides Tesla) the Japanese companies make out the best!

 

[Chomsky]

2 to 3 years for a new facility.

6 to 18 months to modify an existing facility.

It will take several years for the economy as a whole to adjust to all this tariff chaos.

In the meantime a lot of people will be fired, prices for consumers will increase drastically, economic growth will slow or the economy might even decrease (see Atlanta Fed GDP forecasts).

If this is something people want to happen it should be done slowly and thoughtfully, not on Trump's impulses or whims.

It this is something people want to happen it should be done to further our national interests, not Trump's personal interests.

And the worst part about everything that's happening, is that the way Trump is doing things is totally unnecessary. It's almost entirely about making Trump feel like he is some sort of big shot, but in reality all he is doing is making life miserable for everyone.

Starting a New Vehicle Production - What to Look out For | Magna

Find out about the first steps you have to take to implement a successful automotive project from Magna's experts. Read everythink you need to know in or article!

www.magna.com

https://thoughtleadership.rbc.com/what-is-the-impact-of-tariffs-on-the-us-economy/

And perhaps worse of all, we will be forced to buy unreliable American junk - rather than our preferred dependable vehicles.

 

[Chomsky]

This is the biggest problem with Trump supporters:

Trump supporters don't know enough to know how little they know.

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Even worse, they're running the country subjecting us to their wiles.

 

[mike2810]

Exactly.

Tariffs only apply to vehicles made outside the USA. They do not apply to those made IN the USA. Trump's stated goal for tariffs like those on automobiles is to do exactly what European nations do to cars made in the USA and sent for sale in their markets. Price them out of their citizens ability or desire to pay.

So, he is doing that to their foreign made products, including cars. All they have to do is build the factories in the USA and any cars made here by U.S. labor won't have tariffs on them.

That's going to help American consumers in the long run. Meanwhile, there are still cars made in the USA that citizens can buy that are not hindered by tariffs.

That is true statement for the tariff starting in April. What will impact the cost of vehicle made inside the US is the parts tariff which will start in May.
If it goes into effect the prices of cars built in the US and the cost to maintain vehicles in the US is going to go up.

As others have pointed out, most vehicles made by the Big 3 contain a percentage of parts or materials made outside the US. The May tariff will make raise the manufacturing or assembly of US vehicles.