Trump intervenes to sideline Obama over Israeli settlements

[LessBiased?]

Everything inflames Muslims around the world.

Gays not being summarily executed

Women being treated as more than property.

Fair elections.

Religion not being the central tenet of government.

Any criticism of the Islamic Faith or Muslim practices.

Freedom of Speech.

Seriously they're inflamed by anything and everything. Who cares anymore. It's "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" but for an entire religion. Trying to make nice is pointless. We need to stand our ground on our own principles and not kowtow to them.

I agree that current Muslim cultures have a tendency towards being backwards and anti-progressive. However, we should recognize that the more extreme variants within these cultures are not representative of Muslim populations in general. Though I'm not religious myself, I know many Muslims and have many in my extended family here in the US. They're typically normal people trying to live their lives like anyone else, and don't endorse the views you listed above. Their relatives in other countries are similar.

In the process of trying to defeat Muslim extremists, it's not in our interest to be wrongly stereotyping and aggravating broader Muslim populations, thereby generating more extremists and increasing support for them. We've been making that mistake for years, and the situation has been getting worse as a result.

 

[American]

I'm not the one who's whining here, though. Trump is. And he's whining because he's making a fool of himself over nothing. The UN resolution does nothing more than condemn the Israeli settlements. It does nothing to harm or threaten Israel. Of course, this is predicated upon Trump's (well-known) bigotry against Muslims. Trump doesn't give a **** about Israel. You're grasping at straws. If Trump really cares about Israel, and if this were really a "bad move" by Obama or "treating Israel like crap" (as you falsely claim), then Trump should, in theory, just have to sit back and watch Obama destroy himself. Of course, this is not true, so Trump is trying to stop Obama from making a historically-good move and cement his legacy, which is actually quite extraordinary.

Kick and scream all you want, Trump and his supporters will be the red-headed step-children of History.

Which is a huge deal to Israel, and a condemnation of the settlements is a condemnation of Israeli policy concerning that area of land. So yes, it harms Israel.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

But you said he did it on his own before being contacted by Israel

Umm, no I did not. I said that Trump did it for his own selfish reasons. He can still do that after being contacted by Netanyahu. What I said was that he did it in accord with his own agenda, not because Israel called him. I did not say that Israel did not call him. If I did then it was a typo.

 

[American]

I agree that current Muslim cultures have a tendency towards being backwards and anti-progressive. However, we should recognize that the more extreme variants within these cultures are not representative of Muslim populations in general. Though I'm not religious myself, I know many Muslims and have many in my extended family here in the US. They're typically normal people trying to live their lives like anyone else, and don't endorse the views you listed above. Their relatives in other countries are similar.

In the process of trying to defeat Muslim extremists, it's not in our interest to be wrongly stereotyping and aggravating broader Muslim populations, thereby generating more extremists and increasing support for them. We've been making that mistake for years, and the situation has been getting worse as a result.

The moderate or rather non-extremist Muslims are irrelevant in this discussion.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

The article states trump didn't do anything till he was called by Israel.

And? Where have I countered that? My argument is Trump's disrespect for Israel by exploiting their complaints. Do try to keep up.

Why was he called by Israel is the next question.

Netanyahu called him because of a beef he has with Obama.

The reason that his team was called is because the Obama administration was doing nothing

See above.

to stop and from reports in your article had no intention of vetoing this resolution.

Who cares?

This action is a complete reverse of what the US policy is regarding such resolutions at the UN.

See above.

Trump did what pretty much all other presidents have done at the request of another country.

Do other countries go around annexing portions of other countries? So, what you are saying is that Obama should have capitulated to Putin when he annexed Crimea?

as I said you haven't read the article or are just making stuff up about the article that doesn't exist.

You continue to be incorrect or willfully ignorant (or both).

 

[American]

Umm, no I did not. I said that Trump did it for his own selfish reasons. He can still do that after being contacted by Netanyahu. What I said was that he did it in accord with his own agenda, not because Israel called him. I did not say that Israel did not call him. If I did then it was a typo.

And he can do it according to his own agenda, whether called or not, AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! In the strictest sense I think it's a gray area whether he should act while Obama is still President, but speaking according to his own agenda is exactly what he should do.

 

[LessBiased?]

But didn't you just say that Israel should not be helped because it will inflame the Muslims against the US?

Now you say they are not inherently crazy.

Which is it?

All people are prone to getting inflamed in some circumstances. That doesn't make them crazy, unless you want to say that everyone is crazy.

Also, even if one accepts the claim that Israel has a "right" to be there and displace the Palestinians, Israel doesn't need our "help" anyway. They have a powerful military with nuclear weapons, effective intelligence agencies, and a developed economy.

I think we either need to be a fair broker in the region, or get out of there and let them sort it out themselves.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

Umm, no I did not. I said that Trump did it for his own selfish reasons. He can still do that after being contacted by Netanyahu. What I said was that he did it in accord with his own agenda, not because Israel called him. I did not say that Israel did not call him. If I did then it was a typo.

Doesn't everyone do things for their own selfish reasons? You started this post for your own selfish reasons, all I have done is ask you to back up your assertions from the article or provide other sources that back you up.

Let's step back. What should Trump have done that would make you happy? That is your beef, no?

 

[Abbazorkzog]

What should Trump have done that would make you happy? That is your beef, no?

Wrong. My beef is with ignorant Trumpsters who hate on Obama's Israel policy which is for nothing more than peace between Israelis and Palestinians, and the geopolitical incompetents who advocate pissing off Palestine by stroking the Israeli right-wing who are extremists in their own right, and there are tens of millions of Jews from Israel and America who would agree. But that is another topic, the topic here is that Trump's own geopolitical incompetence is going to further embroil the Middle-East in instability and bloodshed. This is just a harbinger of what is to come.

 

[ludin]

And? Where have I countered that? My argument is Trump's disrespect for Israel by exploiting their complaints. Do try to keep up.

you have no proof just meaningless opinion contrary to what the article states.

Netanyahu called him because of a beef he has with Obama.

Makes sense to me. if one person won't do anything about it you call the next person to see if they will.

See above.

yep trump did nothing wrong and has done what other PEOTUS have done in the past.

Who cares?

Israel does.

Do other countries go around annexing portions of other countries? So, what you are saying is that Obama should have capitulated to Putin when he annexed Crimea?

The US has annexed several countries. Israel owns the land they are building on. It is there's.

You continue to be incorrect or willfully ignorant (or both).

Say the person that didn't read his own article.

 

[ludin]

Wrong. My beef is with ignorant Trumpsters who hate on Obama's Israel policy which is for nothing more than peace between Israelis and Palestinians, and the geopolitical incompetents who advocate pissing off Palestine by stroking the Israeli right-wing who are extremists in their own right, and there are tens of millions of Jews from Israel and America who would agree. But that is another topic, the topic here is that Trump's own geopolitical incompetence is going to further embroil the Middle-East in instability and bloodshed. This is just a harbinger of what is to come.

yet that isn't what the article says this is simply your trump meme.

Obama has done little to stabilize the region except to try and capitulate to Palestine.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

Wrong. My beef is with ignorant Trumpsters who hate on Obama's Israel policy which is for nothing more than peace between Israelis and Palestinians, and the geopolitical incompetents who advocate pissing off Palestine by stroking the Israeli right-wing who are extremists in their own right, and there are tens of millions of Jews from Israel and America who would agree. But that is another topic, the topic here is that Trump's own geopolitical incompetence is going to further embroil the Middle-East in instability and bloodshed. This is just a harbinger of what is to come.

I didn't see any of that in the article. I believe that is a different section of the site that address those issues.

 

[DaveFagan]

Again you seem to be making stuff up. He is allowed to reflect certain policies at this point.
Yep obama has treated Israel like crap for 8 years.

Perhaps it is because Israel is an aparthied State. I'm not too keen on that policy. It didn't work well in South Africa.

 

[LessBiased?]

The moderate or rather non-extremist Muslims are irrelevant in this discussion.

I agree with many of her points, and from looking at her bio, I see that her rant is well-practiced. But I question her claim that such a large percentage of Muslims are extremists, and I don't agree with her policy ideas. Muslim extremists are targeting particular countries because they believe those countries are knowingly harming Muslim interests in an unjust way. Regardless of whether or not one views US actions as unjust, we do have the option of changing our policy towards Muslim populations such that their extremists lose motive (and justification) to target us.

 

[reinoe]

I agree with many of her points, and from looking at her bio, I see that her rant is well-practiced. But I question her claim that such a large percentage of Muslims are extremists, and I don't agree with her policy ideas. Muslim extremists are targeting particular countries because they believe those countries are knowingly harming Muslim interests in an unjust way. Regardless of whether or not one views US actions as unjust, we do have the option of changing our policy towards Muslim populations such that their extremists lose motive to target us.

And I say that Muslim extremists will simply find another justification even if we do change policies.

I gave a long list of examples that could justify a Muslim extremist's hatred. If you want to say that the resolution shouldn't go forward for reasons other than inciting people who are easily incited then please state those reasons. But the whole "we shouldn't incite them" is not a credible excuse.

We don't appease the KKK and we shouldn't appease Islamic extremists either.

 

[American]

I agree with many of her points, and from looking at her bio, I see that her rant is well-practiced. But I question her claim that such a large percentage of Muslims are extremists, and I don't agree with her policy ideas. Muslim extremists are targeting particular countries because they believe those countries are knowingly harming Muslim interests in an unjust way. Regardless of whether or not one views US actions as unjust, we do have the option of changing our policy towards Muslim populations such that their extremists lose motive to target us.

Yes, she has a bias, but she is from there. The Muslim extremists are targeting their own countries, hurting their own women and children. Make no mistake, they want to dominate the world. The moderates are doing almost nothing about this, so they carry some responsibility.

 

[Militant_Vegan_]

The Israeli's can't turn to Obama because he's an anti-Semite and possibly a Muslim.

derp.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

you have no proof just meaningless opinion contrary to what the article states.

"Meaningless opinion contrary to what article states" = going around in circles over a response to a troll post you made back on page 1. Got it. :thumbs:

Makes sense to me. if one person won't do anything about it you call the next person to see if they will.

That is not how geopolitics works.

yep trump did nothing wrong and has done what other PEOTUS have done in the past.

Your opinion is noted.

Israel does.

The world does not revolve around Israel.

The US has annexed several countries. Israel owns the land they are building on. It is there's.

Crimea river.

[qupte]Say the person that didn't read his own article.[/QUOTE]

See my first response.

 

[LessBiased?]

Yes, she has a bias, but she is from there. The Muslim extremists are targeting their own countries, hurting their own women and children. Make no mistake, they want to dominate the world. The moderates are doing almost nothing about this, so they carry some responsibility.

Agreed that the Muslim extremists are a menace to other Muslims and the rest of the world, and some are extreme enough to seek world domination. IMO, they need to be shut down, using force as necessary; as with all ideological extremists, they're too far gone for anything resembling diplomacy. Also agreed that Muslim populations could do more to condemn and fight these extremists, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that moderates are doing "almost nothing" about it; the media gives little voice to such moderates because focusing on extremists attracts more viewers.

Here's an interesting tidbit from Wikipedia regarding how even Jews can view Gabriel as going too far:

When Gabriel was invited to speak as part of a lecture series organized by Duke University's Jewish community in October 2004, many in attendance were angered by her referring to Arabs as "barbarians." The Freeman Centre for Jewish Life at Duke University later apologized for her comments. Following her speech at women's campaign event for the Jewish Federation of Ottawa (JFO) in November 2008, many in attendance registered their protests, leading Mitchell Bellman, president and CEO of the JFO, to write a letter in which he acknowledged that Gabriel made, "unacceptable gross generalizations of Arabs and Muslims," distancing his organization from her views.

In 2007 at the Christians United for Israel annual conference, Gabriel delivered the following speech:

The difference, my friends, between Israel and the Arab world is the difference between civilization and barbarism. It's the difference between good and evil [applause].... this is what we're witnessing in the Arabic world, They have no soul, they are dead set on killing and destruction. And in the name of something they call "Allah" which is very different from the God we believe....[applause] because our God is the God of love.

This speech was subsequently criticised by journalist Bruce Wilson as being "hate speech" and stated that Brigitte Gabriel "paints a wide swath of humanity as subhuman", comparing her to Goebbel's Reich.​

 

[ThoughtEx.]

And I say that Muslim extremists will simply find another justification even if we do change policies.

I gave a long list of examples that could justify a Muslim extremist's hatred. If you want to say that the resolution shouldn't go forward for reasons other than inciting people who are easily incited then please state those reasons. But the whole "we shouldn't incite them" is not a credible excuse.

We don't appease the KKK and we shouldn't appease Islamic extremists either.

What election did you just watch? They seem pretty appeased at the moment to me...

 

[Apocalypse]

There are tens of millions of Jews, from both Israel and America, who will vehemently disagree with you all over the place.

There aren't tens of millions of Jews in the entire world, let alone in Israel and America, let alone with your opinion.

 

[Beaudreaux]

This isn't about the article, it is an address to your vehemently skewed perception of my view-point on the article.

Vehemently - It would appear that you do not understand neither the definition nor proper use of that word.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

There aren't tens of millions of Jews in the entire world, let alone in Israel and America, let alone with your opinion.

Oh, so J-Street, the Israeli left, and the millions of Jews who have protested against Trump's ambassador to Israel - who has no political experience, no rightful say in the issues of Palestine, no merit to his opinions, who accuses Huma Abedin of having ties to Al-Qaeda - are suddenly irrelevant? Really? Interesting.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Vehemently - It would appear that you do not understand neither the definition nor proper use of that word.

ve·he·ment
ˈvēəmənt/Submit
adjective
showing strong feeling; forceful, passionate, or intense.
"her voice was low but vehement"
synonyms: passionate, forceful, ardent, impassioned, heated, spirited, urgent, fervent, violent, fierce, fiery, strong, forcible, powerful, emphatic, vigorous, intense, earnest, keen, enthusiastic, zealous
"her vehement arguments persuaded them to save the housing project"

You were saying?

 

[Bobbaker]

The Israeli's can't turn to Obama because he's an anti-Semite and possibly a Muslim.

Only a moron, raised by parents who themselves are morons, who need to feel better about themselves by touting conspiracy theories that no one else believes, and thereby differentiate themselves from everyone else who is of sound mind and normal intelligence, would make a statement like the one above.