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Trump: I'll rescind birthright citizenship [W:287]

Read my post.. I don't agree it will be easy to evict anchor babies (however, don't count anything out with the SC). They, for example, allowed ACA because it was considered a tax.

Trump is calling for anchor babies to leave so the family is not disrupted. If they won't happen, he'll still evict the illegals.

no, he won't. lobbyists like undocumented labor too much.

and that's not to mention the fact that the dude is not going to be president. if he even gets the nomination, i'll be very surprised.
 
And? We know they ignored the record of what was actually meant. Case law is replete with examples of the Courts doing this.
But again, you are not understanding.

The Court was able to do that because Congress had not defined it.
Once Congress does (if legislation is passed) the Court has no other option than to accept what the Congress defines it as.

The 14th gives that power to the Congress. Do you really not understand that?
The way you are arguing this seems to suggest that this issue hits close to home.

if you're wondering, i'm not an undocumented immigrant. but lol.

as for the rest, we'll see when a case comes before the SCOTUS. i doubt that you'll be happy with the outcome.
 
no, he won't. lobbyists like undocumented labor too much.

and that's not to mention the fact that the dude is not going to be president. if he even gets the nomination, i'll be very surprised.
Fine, be surprised. Don't be surprised with Trump's intentions on Illegal Immigration, however.
 
Fine, be surprised. Don't be surprised with Trump's intentions on Illegal Immigration, however.

very little about him surprises me. he's fun, though.
 
you should be working to get the fourteenth amendment changed.

any yeah, you'll have to do that before you can deport people who were born here.

What evidence supports your claim that a constitutional amendment would be needed? I mentioned Elk v. Wilkins, the 1884 case in which the Supreme Court first interpreted the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. The Indian in that case had been born inside the geographic territory of the United States, and yet the Court held that fact did not make him a citizen of the U.S. It found that the man was not completely subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, as it interpreted the clause to require. The Court pointed to children born here to ambassadors and other public ministers of foreign nations as another example of persons who do not become U.S. citizens by the accident of birth within U.S. territory.

Birth citizenship is a relic of other times and places that was disfavored in this country from the beginning. English kings had for centuries relied on it to make as many inhabitants as possible subjects of the crown, so they could recruit and rely on these subjects to serve them in wars. In this country today, birth citizenship for aliens is favored mostly by people who indulge themselves in what has been called "white liberal guilt." Even while these people choose to live in the United States, they loathe it as a perpetrator of evil in the world and do not wish it well. They see the enormous harm illegal immigration has done to America, and they hope to see it do even more. In their eyes we have it coming.
 
incorrect.
Yes you are again, incorrect.
That isn't going to change.

Again, the provided resolution is the evidence.


if you're wondering, i'm not an undocumented immigrant. but lol.
Close to home can mean others and not just you.


as for the rest, we'll see when a case comes before the SCOTUS. i doubt that you'll be happy with the outcome.
As I said; If.
There can only be one outcome and I am sure you are the one who will not be happy with it.

Congress has the authority as given to it by the Constitution.
 
What evidence supports your claim that a constitutional amendment would be needed? I mentioned Elk v. Wilkins, the 1884 case in which the Supreme Court first interpreted the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. The Indian in that case had been born inside the geographic territory of the United States, and yet the Court held that fact did not make him a citizen of the U.S. It found that the man was not completely subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, as it interpreted the clause to require. The Court pointed to children born here to ambassadors and other public ministers of foreign nations as another example of persons who do not become U.S. citizens by the accident of birth within U.S. territory.

Birth citizenship is a relic of other times and places that was disfavored in this country from the beginning. English kings had for centuries relied on it to make as many inhabitants as possible subjects of the crown, so they could recruit and rely on these subjects to serve them in wars. In this country today, birth citizenship for aliens is favored mostly by people who indulge themselves in what has been called "white liberal guilt." Even while these people choose to live in the United States, they loathe it as a perpetrator of evil in the world and do not wish it well. They see the enormous harm illegal immigration has done to America, and they hope to see it do even more. In their eyes we have it coming.

answered here :

http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...ip-w-287-a-post1064940259.html#post1064940259
 
Yes you are again, incorrect.
That isn't going to change.

Again, the provided resolution is the evidence.



Close to home can mean others and not just you.



As I said; If.
There can only be one outcome and I am sure you are the one who will not be happy with it.

Congress has the authority as given to it by the Constitution.

we'll see if it comes before the SCOTUS again, and then we will discuss. the wording of the amendment is clear, as is the precedence.
 
Better find a GREAT lawyer if you hope to establish the above. Trump said he'll be testing this. We'll see how it fly's eh? I'd prefer it. I just don't see it happening.
A lawyer isn't needed in this case.

That information just shows that it was known what was meant.


All that needs to be done is to pass legislation of the type that Harry Reid submitted in 1993. That doesn't require a lawyer.
 
I'm not so sure a constitutional amendment is needed. The most important SC decision with regard to birthright citizenship that I know of is Won Kim Ark v United States which talks about children of people here legally.

What part of 'born...in the United States...' don't you understand?
 
we'll see if it comes before the SCOTUS again, and then we will discuss. the wording of the amendment is clear, as is the precedence.

And that is where you are wrong.

What a the Court previously (wrongly) defined, has no precedence on an act of Congress to define the terminology, as that is the Congress area of authority as given to them by the Constitution. The Court does not get to change that.
 
Non-citizens in our country are not subject to our jurisdiction?
Non-citizens're free to do as they please and face no legal ramifications because they're not in our jurisdiction?

This is the kind of hilarious logic that makes this forum so amusing. Wow! Apparently non-citizens can do whatever the hell they want here without any consequences! Who knew?
 
And that is where you are wrong.

What a the Court previously (wrongly) defined, has no precedence on an act of Congress to define the terminology, as that is the Congress area of authority as given to them by the Constitution. The Court does not get to change that.

no, congress does not get to legislate an end run around a clearly written amendment. amend it, or challenge it in the courts.
 
no, congress does not get to legislate an end run around a clearly written amendment. amend it, or challenge it in the courts.

And there goes that misunderstanding again.

What do you not understand about Congress having the authority to define the language used?
All it takes is legislation on their part and the Court will have no say.
 
And there goes that misunderstanding again.

What do you not understand about Congress having the authority to define the language used?
All it takes is legislation on their part and the Court will have no say.

incorrect. but maybe if you respond enough times, the language of the amendment and the precedence will change.

but probably not. we'll see when the court hears another case.
 
A lawyer isn't needed in this case.

That information just shows that it was known what was meant.


All that needs to be done is to pass legislation of the type that Harry Reid submitted in 1993. That doesn't require a lawyer.

No deliberation required?
 
It would take a constitutional amendment to undo birthright citizenship and I don't see that happening.

The constitution DOES NOT support birthright citizenship, all we need is a SCOTUS case to uphold the 14th.
Read the history, LEGAL citizens are citizens by birth, there is no case for ILLEGALS being granted citizenship. So the
birthright" BS is all just hot air.
 
What part of 'born...in the United States...' don't you understand?

What part of the holding in Elk v. Wilkins that I cited earlier do you not understand? In that case the Supreme Court was interpreting the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment for the first time, and it emphasized the importance of the part of the clause you conveniently failed to mention: [I[]"and subject to the jurisdiction thereof."[/I]


Though the plaintiff alleges that he "had fully and completely surrendered himself to the jurisdiction of the United States," he does not allege that the United States accepted his surrender, or that he has ever been naturalized, or taxed, or in any way recognized or treated as a citizen by the state or by the United States . . . .

The question, then, is whether an Indian, born a member of one of the Indian tribes within the United States, is, merely by reason of his birth within the United States and of his afterwards voluntarily separating himself from his tribe and taking up his residence among white citizens, a citizen of the United States within the meaning of the first section of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution. 112 U.S. 94, 99 (1884).
..................

The persons declared to be citizens are "all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof." The evident meaning of these last words is not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction and owing them direct and immediate allegiance. And the words relate to the time of birth in the one case, as they do to the time of naturalization in the other. Persons not thus subject to the jurisdiction of the United States at the time of birth cannot become so afterwards except by being naturalized, either individually, as by proceedings under the naturalization acts, or collectively, as by the force of a treaty by which foreign territory is acquired.

Indians born within the territorial limits of the United States, members of and owing immediate allegiance to one of the Indiana tribes (an alien though dependent power), although in a geographical sense born in the United States, are no more "born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof," within the meaning of the first section of the Fourteenth Amendment, than the children of subjects of any foreign government born within the domain of that government, or the children born within the United States of ambassadors or other public ministers of foreign nations. (emphasis added) Id. at 101-102.


I know all about Wong Kim Ark, where the same Justice Gray who had authored the majority opinion in Elk this time got the Citizenship Clause wrong. I also know that nothing prevents the Supreme Court from overruling whatever part of Wong Kim Ark, Plyler v. Doe, or any other of its decisions that may be standing in the way of the interpretation of the Citizenship Clause it used in Elk v. Wilkins. That interpretation, if applied to the children of parents who are aliens not legally present in the United States, would prevent them from being made U.S. citizens merely by the accident of being born within U.S. territory.
 
It's just like their choice to ignore the meaning of the preparatory phrase in the Second Amendment (A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of the state,) and the context of the times in which it was written. They've decided to ignore the obvious contextual meaning of how the Fourteenth Amendment was written - it doesn't say what they want it to say, so they have to ignore what the Amendment obviously says in order to protect their own personal belief systems.

The 2nd Amendment is clear, so is the 14th, your revisionism does not work.
 
incorrect.

In fact it is you who has it wrong. This is a government of the people, and the people, acting through their elected representatives in Congress, have the final say on what anything in the Constitution means. There is a good reason the Constitution deals with Congress in Article I, with the executive branch in article II, and leaves the Supreme Court for Article III. Tje judicial branch was always meant to be by far the weakest of the three. Nothing in the Constitution makes it the final arbiter of what any part of that Constitution means. The Court has arrogated that power to itself in its decisions.

Only one Supreme Court justice has ever been impeached, but we could impeach and remove any or all of them, if enough of us insisted on it loudly enough. And soon after the Civil War Congress showed, in Ex Parte McCardle, that it can completely remove the Supreme Court's jurisdiction over a case--and therefore its power to decide it. Also, the president may decline to enforce a Supreme Court decision, as President Lincoln did with the notorious Dred Scott v. Sandford. The notion that the American people have no choice but to sit still and take whatever outrage the Supreme Court may choose to inflict on us is a falsehood pushed by statists who want the Court to help them implement their utopian social schemes.

About twenty years ago, Congress did something very much what you would have us believe it cannot do. It enacted, by large majorities of both Houses, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. And that law clearly states its purpose is to restore the broad interpretation of the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment that the Court followed in Sherbert v. Verner and Wisconsin v. Yoder. The Court had drastically restricted the protection of the right to free exercise of religion in a 1990 decision, Employment Division v. Smith, shocking many Americans, and they wanted the earlier, broader protection restored.

The Court held in City of Boerne v. Flores in 1997 that Congress could not use the RFRA to substitute its interpretation of the Constitution for the Court's own--but only as applied to the states. The Court could not have made more clear that it follows the RFRA's interpretation of the Free Exercise Clause in federal matters than it did not so long ago in the Hobby Lobby case. In that case, the Court held that a HHS rule on contraceptives was invalid because it failed to meet the Sherbert-Yoder "compelling interest" standard that the RFRA imposes.

If Congress can tell the Court how it wants it to interpret the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment as it did in certain earlier decisions, it can also tell the Court it wants it to interpret the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment as is did in an earlier decision. Stare decisis is not an inviolable rule--it would not be an obstacle to change, if Congress made very clear it did not want it to be.
 
Then maybe you shouldn't post a cartoon about a vantage point you know nothing about.

But that would mean leftist are mean spirited, uncaring, greedy, heartless people that do not care about the poor, or those in need.
 
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