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Trump: evacuate Tehran

gbg3 said:
My guess is yes, that the U.S. will provide Israel with our bunker buster to take out Fordow.
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Only the B2 can carry the ones needed - too big for any Israeli aircraft.
 
Pyrite said:
Post #119


That won't work. Why not? The IDF doesn't have a bomber that can carry a munition large enough/heavy enough to take out the hardened facilities.

American pilots, American B-2 stealth bombers, American munitions would be needed. That means the USA would effectively declare war on Iran.
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I agree taking out Fordow would require American equipment - but various American equipment is provided to many a country for that country's military efforts. Does the U.S. "declare war" on every country where our equipment is used by another country's military? No.
 
gbg3 said:
I agree taking out Fordow would require American equipment - but various American equipment is provided to many a country for that country's military efforts. Does the U.S. "declare war" on every country where our equipment is used by another country's military? No.
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You're not accepting what I've pointed out: not just "equipment". We would have to furnish the B-2 stealth bombers and the pilots to fly them.

THAT would be tantamount to declaring war on Iran.
 
gbg3 said:
No, I understand you are feeling motivated to want to insert "declare war" - but it simply isn't true.
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Post #129


Yes, it is. Because American pilots would fly American B-2 stealth bombers and drop American anti-bunker munitions.

These actions would constitute a declaration of war. Remember Pearl Harbor?
 
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Pyrite said:
Yes, it is. Because American pilots would fly American B-2 stealth bombers and drop American anti-bunker munitions.

These actions are declarations of war. Remember Pearl Harbor?
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True but you must understand the delicate position that Donald has put @gbg3 in. He made it very clear that he will not start a war, which means @gbg3 is duty-bound to defend any and all Trump actions as "not war" until such a time that he tells her that it is a war, at which point she can praise his Beautiful and Strong war.
 
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gbg3 said:
No, I understand you are feeling motivated to want to insert "declare war" - but it simply isn't true.
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If we bomb and engage in perfidy against a hostile foreign power we were in the middle of negotiating with, we will have no grounds to condemn them for their perfidy when they sink one of our carriers with all hands lost.

And with incompetent drunkard security risks like Pete Hegseth in charge of our military, I think this might be the one time Iran might actually have the chance to pull of such a maneuver.
 
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Pyrite said:
You're not accepting what I've pointed out: not just "equipment". We would have to furnish the B-2 stealth bombers and the pilots to fly them.

THAT would be tantamount to declaring war on Iran.
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A B-2 is equipment.

As far as who would be a pilot, you don't know that it would be a U.S. pilot! The U.S. has not and will not declare war on Iran. They sure might, however, provide Israel with equipment more sophisticated than what is currently in Israel's possession, just as the U.S. has often done for military needs of other countries.
 
gbg3 said:
A B-2 is equipment.

As far as who would be a pilot, you don't know that it would be a U.S. pilot! The U.S. has not and will not declare war on Iran. They sure might, however, provide Israel with equipment more sophisticated than what is currently in Israel's possession, just as the U.S. has often done for military needs of other countries.
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Post #135


B-2 stealth bombers flown by US pilots drop bombs on Iran.

No different from Pearl Harbor. A declaration of war, by the USA, on Iran.


(That you believe the US would allow another country's untrained pilots to climb into the cockpits of our B-2 stealth bombers, fly to Iran, and drop American bombs on that country is.....preposterous. Crazy as trump is, even he wouldn't go for your proposal. Nor would the Joint Chiefs. Even the Republican-controlled Congress would likely figure out this is a bad, bad, BAD idea.)
 
Pyrite said:
Post #135


B-2 stealth bombers flown by US pilots drop bombs on Iran.

No different from Pearl Harbor. A declaration of war, by the USA, on Iran.


(That you believe the US would allow another country's untrained pilots to climb into the cockpits of our B-2 stealth bombers, fly to Iran, and drop American bombs on that country is.....preposterous. Crazy as trump is, I don't think he'd go for your proposal. Or that the Joint Chiefs would agree to it.)
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I don't think she realizes that the B-2 is one of the most sensitive and highly guarded platforms in our arsenal and nobody - not even our closest allies - has access to it. There are quite literally only a handful of them in existence. Foreign military are not even allowed inside the cockpit.
 
phoenix2020 said:
I don't think she realizes that the B-2 is one of the most sensitive and highly guarded platforms in our arsenal and nobody - not even our closest allies - has access to it. There are quite literally only a handful of them in existence. Foreign military are not even allowed inside the cockpit.
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Mental note to self: check whether our kids*, who are in their 40's, know what stealth bombers are. And can understand that pilots who lack extensive training/experience with this aircraft should not be entrusted with operating them.


*Not that our kids are MAGA. But you really shouldn't assume that younger generations have the same information you do.
 
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Felis Leo said:
If we bomb and engage in perfidy against a hostile foreign power we were in the middle of negotiating with, we will have no grounds to condemn them for their perfidy
when they sink one of our carriers with all hands lost.

And with incompetent drunkard security risks like Pete Hegseth in charge of our military, I think this might be the one time Iran might actually have the chance to pull of such a maneuver.
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Iran WILL close the Strait of Hormuz...
We will send a Carrier Group in... Americans will die...
-Peace
 
Ganondagan said:
The U.S. is already at war with Iran, it's just not a declared war. In this case diplomacy is a less overt form of war.
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American pilots' operating American B-2 stealth bombers to drop American bombs on Iran would be a hell of an overt act of war.
 
Pyrite said:
You're not accepting what I've pointed out: not just "equipment". We would have to furnish the B-2 stealth bombers and the pilots to fly them.

THAT would be tantamount to declaring war on Iran.
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I think it is a matter of semantics. It would certainly be an act of war to use US forces, and probably taken as an act of war if US military personnel delivered the payloads. However, an act of war is not "declaring war", and it would be up to Iran to decide if they wanted to treat it as such.

This wouldn't be the first, nor the last, US situational strike to enforce treaty's or interfere with another nation's military buildup. And given the difficulty of Iran and the US to actually go to war when they are a half world away and no ground forces are involved it can't be continued. Once the air mission was done, Iran have little recourse.

If you look at the history of such actions, such as Israel's taking out other adversaries' reactors, its going to deepen Iran's hostility and continue their support of terrorism but I don't see a war as even feasible.
 
phoenix2020 said:
I don't think she realizes that the B-2 is one of the most sensitive and highly guarded platforms in our arsenal and nobody - not even our closest allies - has access to it. There are quite literally only a handful of them in existence. Foreign military are not even allowed inside the cockpit.
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Ultimately, only 21 B-2 Spirit bombers were ever produced, and they came out to an average cost of $2.13 billion each. This number, when adjusted for inflation, is equivalent to around $4.17 billion in 2024.
 
maxparrish said:
I think it is a matter of semantics. It would certainly be an act of war to use US forces, and probably taken as an act of war if US military personnel delivered the payloads. However, an act of war is not "declaring war", and it would be up to Iran to decide if they wanted to treat it as such.

This wouldn't be the first, nor the last, US situational strike to enforce treaty's or interfere with another nation's military buildup. And given the difficulty of Iran and the US to actually go to war when they are a half world away and no ground forces are involved it can't be continued. Once the air mission was done, Iran have little recourse.

If you look at the history of such actions, such as Israel's taking out other adversaries' reactors, its going to deepen Iran's hostility and continue their support of terrorism but I don't see a war as even feasible.
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A fair point re the semantics. However, our intervening on behalf of Iran's current antagonist and attacking Iran directly is different from our bombing the Houthis.

As for what other countries would consider "feasible" when it comes to Pearl-Harbor-style attacks: we cannot control the reactions of others.
 
HangLow said:
Ultimately, only 21 B-2 Spirit bombers were ever produced, and they came out to an average cost of $2.13 billion each. This number, when adjusted for inflation, is equivalent to around $4.17 billion in 2024.
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Wow. More reason that even dipshit-idiot trump wouldn't be likely to entrust our B-2 stealth bombers to another nation's untrained and inexperienced pilots.
 
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