Trump doesn't really want to win

[nota bene]

I read this earlier this week and intended to post it: "How Much Does Trump Really Want to be President?"
Page not found | National Review

*Okay, I don't know what the deal is with NRO, but this is the third link I've posted this week that shows "Page not found." I'm looking at the page and am providing the article's title for those genuinely interested.

From the article:

Why is Trump having such difficulty changing his behavior when he should know he is hurting himself? He has provided the answer. Last year, financial journalist Michael D’Antonio published Never Enough: Donald Trump and the Pursuit of Success. The book was bolstered by ten hours of exclusive interviews with the mogul.

Some of the quotes are very revealing. When asked if he is ever introspective, Trump replied, “I don’t like to analyze myself, because I might not like what I see.” When queried about his temperament, Trump said: “When I look at myself in the first grade and I look at myself now, I’m basically the same. The temperament is not that different.” He said he “loved to fight” as a child, “any kind of fight, loved it, including physical.”

 

[Fiddytree]

He eats meat, too.

He single-handedly greatly contributed to the genocide of cattle.

 

[polgara]

This is what im planning on doing. Im leaning toward writing in George Washington as a political statement becausw he is the kind of man i would vote for.

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Greetings, trouble13. :2wave:

Great choice! :thumbs:

 

[azgreg]

He single-handedly greatly contributed to the genocide of cattle.

Good. **** cattle.

 

[Fiddytree]

Good. **** cattle.

Lazy vegan bastards, anyhow.

 

[azgreg]

Lazy vegan bastards, anyhow.

****ing grass eaters.

 

[Perotista]

Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

I read an interesting comment recently which stated "that we should not view voting as a public duty, but rather as a private one. Write in someone, and if you can't think of anyone you like, write in yourself. That will show those who count the votes that you refuse to participate in the "lesser-of-the-two-evils" hoax!"

Trump got the most votes, Pero - his supporters would have immediately challenged the GOP leaders in court for taking the win away from him, and we both know that would have happened - what choice did the leaders really have, since we still have freedom of speech?

Trump used threats and they cowed the Republican Party leaders. Remember his, "Be nice to me or I will run as an independent." The RNC was so afraid that Trump would do exactly that taking at the time about a quarter of Republicans with him and thus lose the election to Hillary. They should have told him, "Fine, take a hike." Or at least called his bluff. I think we talked about before or that may have been on another site.

Trump left the RNC between a rock and a hard place. Either they lose 20% of their base vote to the never Trumpers or lose 30% to Trump as an independent. You can see that in the polls, Trump is getting 78% of the Republican base vote, Romney received 93%. But outside of some high profile Republicans who state they will vote for Clinton, most of that 20% are divided between Johnson and Stein, not voting. Clinton is getting six percent of the GOP base vote, the same percentage Obama received in 2012. Hillary has her own problem with the Democratic base, basically the 18-30 year olds, a lot of former Sander's supporters. So both have huge problems there.

But you're right, Trump received the most votes in the GOP primaries. He received 40% worth which earned him over 50% of the delegates and it is the delegates that count. Also those 40% were so angry at the Republican elected officials that they thought it far more important to send them a message than win in November and viola, you have what you have now. Two candidates with around 60% of all Americans disliking them and not wanting either to be the next president. Either will probably have one heck of a time trying to govern. The Republicans hate Hillary, the Democrats hate Trump and there will be little to no cooperation across the aisle. Throw in the fact that 60% of America won't want whoever wins to be their president, governing will be pretty hard as you will not only having the opposing party trying to stop everything you do, you will have a majority of Americans who may not support much of what you do. When 60-70% think you are not honest and untrustworthy, that applies to both candidates, this nation could be in for a very hard time regardless of who wins. Who's going to believe the next president when he/she says something or tries to explain something?

 

[trouble13]

Trump used threats and they cowed the Republican Party leaders. Remember his, "Be nice to me or I will run as an independent." The RNC was so afraid that Trump would do exactly that taking at the time about a quarter of Republicans with him and thus lose the election to Hillary. They should have told him, "Fine, take a hike." Or at least called his bluff. I think we talked about before or that may have been on another site.

I dont understand what attracts people to Trump but I think it would of increased the alienation between voters and the party if they had turned their backs on the guy voters chose to be the party represenitive.

Trump left the RNC between a rock and a hard place. Either they lose 20% of their base vote to the never Trumpers or lose 30% to Trump as an independent. You can see that in the polls, Trump is getting 78% of the Republican base vote, Romney received 93%. But outside of some high profile Republicans who state they will vote for Clinton, most of that 20% are divided between Johnson and Stein, not voting. Clinton is getting six percent of the GOP base vote, the same percentage Obama received in 2012. Hillary has her own problem with the Democratic base, basically the 18-30 year olds, a lot of former Sander's supporters. So both have huge problems there.

Your numbers seem off to me. I remember predebate polls showing in head to head match up compared to 4 way races Clintons number would drop but Trumps basicaly stayed the same. Does that not indicate the the 3rd party candidates are taking votes from the left? Not to mention both 3rd party people are more left than right leaning.

But you're right, Trump received the most votes in the GOP primaries. He received 40% worth which earned him over 50% of the delegates and it is the delegates that count. Also those 40% were so angry at the Republican elected officials that they thought it far more important to send them a message than win in November and viola, you have what you have now. Two candidates with around 60% of all Americans disliking them and not wanting either to be the next president.

I think you can say that about Trump and Sanders supporters but not Clintons.

Either will probably have one heck of a time trying to govern. The Republicans hate Hillary, the Democrats hate Trump and there will be little to no cooperation across the aisle. Throw in the fact that 60% of America won't want whoever wins to be their president, governing will be pretty hard as you will not only having the opposing party trying to stop everything you do, you will have a majority of Americans who may not support much of what you do. When 60-70% think you are not honest and untrustworthy, that applies to both candidates, this nation could be in for a very hard time regardless of who wins. Who's going to believe the next president when he/she says something or tries to explain something?

If Trump wins i dont think he will have support from either party. The establishment will punish voters for electing him. If clinton wins i think its buisiness as usaul in DC.



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[Glowpun]

He wants to rile up gullible goobs. he can't even believe he made it this far.
When he loses he can claim the election is rigged and he make a fortune off from his brand.
He's mining idiots.

Trump likes the low educated and the gullible. He figures there are lots of them to take him to the WH.

 

[ocean515]

Fear? lol...Trump just lost 5 points in two short weeks. He lost the lead in Ohio, NC, Nevada, Iowa and Florida during that time. It's so bad, he is now staring at a slightly better than 20% chance of winning.

Yes Fear. If the confidence is so high for a Hillary win, why these troll threads? Why would anyone care what Trump supporters think? Why revert to 1st grade playground drivel?

IMO, when victory does not appear so certain, the emotional release is to throw out of bunch of insults and names.

As evidence, I offer post #1.

 

[Perotista]

I dont understand what attracts people to Trump but I think it would of increased the alienation between voters and the party if they had turned their backs on the guy voters chose to be the party represenitive.



Your numbers seem off to me. I remember predebate polls showing in head to head match up compared to 4 way races Clintons number would drop but Trumps basicaly stayed the same. Does that not indicate the the 3rd party candidates are taking votes from the left? Not to mention both 3rd party people are more left than right leaning.



I think you can say that about Trump and Sanders supporters but not Clintons.



If Trump wins i dont think he will have support from either party. The establishment will punish voters for electing him. If clinton wins i think its buisiness as usaul in DC.



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Pretty much. Some minor disagreements. In the head to head polls all during the primaries they showed Trump losing to Clinton, Kasich and Rubio winning. But like I have stated, a lot of the GOP voters were more angry at their elected and party leaders for what they thought was them rolling over and playing dead, letting Obama have his way. But in reality it is a numbers game in Washington that the Republicans didn't have the numbers. By that I mean the Dems had the senate until 2015 and even then, 2015 it took 60 votes for cloture and the GOP had only 54. There were no way congress would ever over ride a veto if by chance let's say the repeal of Obamacare had passed. It takes two thirds of each chamber.

Looking at Trump and Clinton, the latest poll, as taken in October shows Clinton with a 44% favorable, 56% unfavorable rating and Trump at 37% favorable, 61% unfavorable. Both way below the water mark. One way to figure out whom the third parties are hurting more is to take Clinton's and Trump's numbers in a two way race and subtract their numbers in the four candidate race which comes out that Clinton drops 4.2 points and Trump 3.1 point. So Johnson and Stein seems to be hurting Clinton more. By a single point and unless the race is really, really, close like in 1960 or 2000, it is basically a wash and probably doesn't mean much. especially with the good polling numbers Clinton has received in the last couple of days.

Personally, I never thought Trump had a chance. The reason was with independent voters who really dislike Trump although he is splitting them at the moment with Clinton 34% each in the four candidate field polls. But Romney won independents 51-45 back in 2012 and still lost by four points. The reason is the larger Democratic Party base vote which was 35-30% of the electorate back in 2012 and Gallup pegs it today at 32-27%. That is a five point disadvantage Trump must make up and do it with independents if he is to overcome the 5 point advantage the Democrats have in their party base vote.

That means Trump has to win independents with 55-56%. Clinton doesn't have to win them, just make a good showing which she is. Business as usual if Clinton wins, perhaps. But that may be the best we can expect out of her.

 

[calamity]

Yes Fear. If the confidence is so high for a Hillary win, why these troll threads? Why would anyone care what Trump supporters think? Why revert to 1st grade playground drivel?

IMO, when victory does not appear so certain, the emotional release is to throw out of bunch of insults and names.

As evidence, I offer post #1.

Oh, victory is certain. And, the reason for the Trump threads is because it really is amazing that so many GOP people voted in for the guy least likely to ever beat Hillary.

 

[calamity]

Pretty much. Some minor disagreements. In the head to head polls all during the primaries they showed Trump losing to Clinton, Kasich and Rubio winning. But like I have stated, a lot of the GOP voters were more angry at their elected and party leaders for what they thought was them rolling over and playing dead, letting Obama have his way. But in reality it is a numbers game in Washington that the Republicans didn't have the numbers. By that I mean the Dems had the senate until 2015 and even then, 2015 it took 60 votes for cloture and the GOP had only 54. There were no way congress would ever over ride a veto if by chance let's say the repeal of Obamacare had passed. It takes two thirds of each chamber.

Looking at Trump and Clinton, the latest poll, as taken in October shows Clinton with a 44% favorable, 56% unfavorable rating and Trump at 37% favorable, 61% unfavorable. Both way below the water mark. One way to figure out whom the third parties are hurting more is to take Clinton's and Trump's numbers in a two way race and subtract their numbers in the four candidate race which comes out that Clinton drops 4.2 points and Trump 3.1 point. So Johnson and Stein seems to be hurting Clinton more. By a single point and unless the race is really, really, close like in 1960 or 2000, it is basically a wash and probably doesn't mean much. especially with the good polling numbers Clinton has received in the last couple of days.

Personally, I never thought Trump had a chance. The reason was with independent voters who really dislike Trump although he is splitting them at the moment with Clinton 34% each in the four candidate field polls. But Romney won independents 51-45 back in 2012 and still lost by four points. The reason is the larger Democratic Party base vote which was 35-30% of the electorate back in 2012 and Gallup pegs it today at 32-27%. That is a five point disadvantage Trump must make up and do it with independents if he is to overcome the 5 point advantage the Democrats have in their party base vote.

That means Trump has to win independents with 55-56%. Clinton doesn't have to win them, just make a good showing which she is. Business as usual if Clinton wins, perhaps. But that may be the best we can expect out of her.

Trump's horrible numbers with anyone not white, male, over 50 and/or uneducated is what sinks him. You can't win a national election without a plurality of one of these: women, minorities, the youth or college educated white males. It just can't be done, the math never works.

 

[trouble13]

Yes Fear. If the confidence is so high for a Hillary win, why these troll threads? Why would anyone care what Trump supporters think? Why revert to 1st grade playground drivel?

IMO, when victory does not appear so certain, the emotional release is to throw out of bunch of insults and names.

As evidence, I offer post #1.

I dont think its because they are nervous. IMO its more a reflection of the civil unrest thats brewing between people. Think about the climate we live in. We are seeing people forming into various groups and engaging in vitrolic rhetoric and violent behavior.

Things seem to be esculating on both sides. For instance this thread isnt about Trump losing. People are in here to gloat and belittle.

I sometimes wonder what the climate was like leading up to the civil war. I think we could be on the brink of a.new one.

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[calamity]

I dont think its because they are nervous. IMO its more a reflection of the civil unrest thats brewing between people. Think about the climate we live in. We are seeing people forming into various groups and engaging in vitrolic rhetoric and violent behavior.

Things seem to be esculating on both sides. For instance this thread isnt about Trump losing. People are in here to gloat and belittle.

I sometimes wonder what the climate was like leading up to the civil war. I think we could be on the brink of a.new one.

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I guess I am here to gloat and belittle because I cannot in my wildest imagination understand why people were so dumb as to nominate the only buffoon on the GOP ticket guaranteed to lose to Hillary. I can only assume that you all secretly admire her so much you sabotaged the race against her by nominating the worst possible candidate imaginable.

And, that is definitely worthy of discussion...if not a trip to the psychiatrists.

 

[ocean515]

Oh, victory is certain. And, the reason for the Trump threads is because it really is amazing that so many GOP people voted in for the guy least likely to ever beat Hillary.

Well, that's how it works. The GOP offered a slate of candidates and a choice was made.

The DNC didn't trust it's members and basically offered one. The one they selected should be what every voter finds amazing.

Considering how hard the DNC had to work to manipulate the process to keep an avowed socialist in his place, it certainly doesn't say much about the candidate they required their membership to vote for. That is what is truly alarming.

 

[ocean515]

I dont think its because they are nervous. IMO its more a reflection of the civil unrest thats brewing between people. Think about the climate we live in. We are seeing people forming into various groups and engaging in vitrolic rhetoric and violent behavior.

Things seem to be esculating on both sides. For instance this thread isnt about Trump losing. People are in here to gloat and belittle.

I sometimes wonder what the climate was like leading up to the civil war. I think we could be on the brink of a.new one.

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Thank goodness, a reasoned and rational comment.

I agree with your observation. I believe this atmosphere has been created on purpose, and by design. It's meant to create division, animosity, and anger which can be used to force fundamental change that would not normally be accepted or even considered.

Billions of dollars are being invested by the Progressive Machine to stir up the people, and invent causes and concerns in order to put in place preselected solutions meant to control the people, and direct them towards their agenda.

We are living in very dangerous times. I wonder how much tighter these forces are going to tighten the strings, and what they have at the ready when that string breaks.

 

[trouble13]

I guess I am here to gloat and belittle because I cannot in my wildest imagination understand why people were so dumb as to nominate the only buffoon on the GOP ticket guaranteed to lose to Hillary. I can only assume that you all secretly admire her so much you sabotaged the race against her by nominating the worst possible candidate imaginable.

And, that is definitely worthy of discussion...if not a trip to the psychiatrists.

The tone of your post certainly suggests that you are.

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[trouble13]

Thank goodness, a reasoned and rational comment.

I agree with your observation. I believe this atmosphere has been created on purpose, and by design. It's meant to create division, animosity, and anger which can be used to force fundamental change that would not normally be accepted or even considered.

Billions of dollars are being invested by the Progressive Machine to stir up the people, and invent causes and concerns in order to put in place preselected solutions meant to control the people, and direct them towards their agenda.

We are living in very dangerous times. I wonder how much tighter these forces are going to tighten the strings, and what they have at the ready when that string breaks.

I agree with your observation as well. I see more of the violent aggression coming from the left but now we are begining to see people retaliating, specifically trump supporters.

In the past i use to believe that most carried common shared beliefs that bonded us all together and very few of us were lock and step with eithers parties platforms. If those common beliefs exist nobody can see it anymore because of how polarized we have become. People are not listening and giving thoughtful consideration to opposing views they just try to shout each other down. If shouting them down dont work they are begining to resort to violence to shut their opponets up.

I think its only a matter of time before something happens that really ignites thing and we are in full blown fight to the death.

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[calamity]

Well, that's how it works. The GOP offered a slate of candidates and a choice was made.

The DNC didn't trust it's members and basically offered one. The one they selected should be what every voter finds amazing.

Considering how hard the DNC had to work to manipulate the process to keep an avowed socialist in his place, it certainly doesn't say much about the candidate they required their membership to vote for. That is what is truly alarming.

She was the worst possible candidate too, IMO. But, she's still gonna whoop that buffoon. Sad, really. I would have been really happy to vote for Christie, Kasich or Paul. Sad to have only another Clinton or a complete idiot to choose from.

 

[upsideguy]

I blame the Republicans for giving us Trump in the first place.

That's it, blame it on the dead party....

 

[ocean515]

I agree with your observation as well. I see more of the violent aggression coming from the left but now we are begining to see people retaliating, specifically trump supporters.

In the past i use to believe that most carried common shared beliefs that bonded us all together and very few of us were lock and step with eithers parties platforms. If those common beliefs exist nobody can see it anymore because of how polarized we have become. People are not listening and giving thoughtful consideration to opposing views they just try to shout each other down. If shouting them down dont work they are begining to resort to violence to shut their opponets up.

I think its only a matter of time before something happens that really ignites thing and we are in full blown fight to the death.

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I believe the retaliation is limited, but exaggerated by MSM partners to further the objective.

Being told to your face, in print, and spread across hours of daily news broadcast that you're a racist, xenophobic, misogynist is designed to get a response, and it's bound to. Those labels are designed not to convey disagreement, but to destroy and remove. It's outrageous, and quite coordinated.

It's inconceivable a major party candidate, in a public forum, would call 10's of millions of citizens deplorable, yet, not only was it done, but it was immediately quantified and justified by the MSM. That should set off alarm bells.

I'm not a believer that there will be a fight to the death. But having done a considerable amount of research into the groups pushing these actions, a fight is not outside of their plans.

 

[trouble13]

I believe the retaliation is limited, but exaggerated by MSM partners to further the objective.

Being told to your face, in print, and spread across hours of daily news broadcast that you're a racist, xenophobic, misogynist is designed to get a response, and it's bound to. Those labels are designed not to convey disagreement, but to destroy and remove. It's outrageous, and quite coordinated.

It's inconceivable a major party candidate, in a public forum, would call 10's of millions of citizens deplorable, yet, not only was it done, but it was immediately quantified and justified by the MSM. That should set off alarm bells.

I'm not a believer that there will be a fight to the death. But having done a considerable amount of research into the groups pushing these actions, a fight is not outside of their plans.

Just to clarify, when i said a fight to the death it came across poorly. I was speaking in metaphor

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[Ikari]

He wants to rile up gullible goobs. he can't even believe he made it this far.
When he loses he can claim the election is rigged and he make a fortune off from his brand.
He's mining idiots.

I kind of think that South Park has it right. He was just running his mouth, getting publicity and stuff, but never had a plan to lead and never actually thought he'd get far. And then he won the nomination and now can't backout without looking like a giant jackass, so he's doing his best to "throw" the election.

Of course that's all supposition, but it's an interesting CT.

 

[ocean515]

She was the worst possible candidate too, IMO. But, she's still gonna whoop that buffoon. Sad, really. I would have been really happy to vote for Christie, Kasich or Paul. Sad to have only another Clinton or a complete idiot to choose from.

Interesting times. For good reason, voters have had it with the status quo, government elites in Washington and elsewhere. Clearly, that sentiment moved Trump to a win in the primaries.

So it's status quo millions don't want, or role the dice.