Trump blurts out his true motivation on mail ballots

[W_Heisenberg]

Nazis are gonna Nazi

I think at this point we should label them Nazis because it is the most accurate description of who Trump supporters are.

You cannot have civil, bipartisan discussions with people who think it's okay that you be forbidden from voting.

That's the bottom line.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

So, in other words, cheating-just like he does at golf. The man is a crook.

He is the worst crook too. Because he has also managed to corrupt his supporters, who apparently now believe it's okay to suppress the votes of people who disagree with you.

 

[nota bene]

Are you seriously okay with Trump suppressing the vote in this way? During the middle of a pandemic, you're okay with Trump deliberately interfering in the operations of USPS so voters are discouraged from voting for Biden? How can you be okay with that? How can you sit by and attack the people criticizing Trump when Trump is effectively stealing the election? Every American citizen above the age of 18 has the right to vote, not just the citizens you agree with. Why would you be okay with this? What is wrong with you people? I do not understand how any American citizen, whether liberal or conservative, could ever support the deliberate suppression of their fellow citizens from voting, nor do I understand the desire to remain silent and refuse to criticize Trump in light of what he's clearly doing. When someone like Trump holds democracy hostage for their own personal political advantage they no longer deserve respect, and they no longer deserve to be in office.

What Trump is doing right now goes far beyond policy, far beyond partisanship, in my view, it represents an attack against our Republic. This is by far the worst thing he has ever done, and I find the refusal of Republicans, and Trump supporters to criticize Trump to be a severe character flaw. Trump supporters do not really believe in the founding principles and values of our Republic. It's clear to me that Trump supporters hate their political opponents more than they love our Republic, for what greater hate can there be in a democracy than the rejection of the right of one's fellow citizens to vote. Your claims of "not hating" and bipartisanship ring hollow. If you believed in the things you said you believed in you would stand up for the right of your political opponents to VOTE!!!!!!!!



Within the context of what is happening right now, I consider your first sentence to be an endorsement of cheating by Trump.

It's clear you're perfectly fine with Trump stealing the election apparently.

And your last two sentences are precisely why I refuse to comment. Having a civil discussion isn't possible with those who brand others in the way you have here. In fact, when you and others do this, you silence those who don't like Trump but also think the hyperbole is insane.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

On the one hand, yes it is and an outrage, on the other, it's their standard operating procedure. It shouldn't be treated as a shock - Republicans will do "straight-up electoral sabotage" all day every day.

I don't know. This isn't some sort of isolated, local event. They are now deliberately interfering in the operations of the USPS at the national level, suppressing votes across the country. This appears to be orders of magnitude worse than anything they've ever done before.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

And your last two sentences are precisely why I refuse to comment. Having a civil discussion isn't possible with those who brand others in the way you have here. In fact, when you and others do this, you silence those who don't like Trump but also think the hyperbole is insane.

This goes beyond politics nota bene. He's stealing the election by interfering with the operations of the USPS. And I am shocked and saddened you refuse to speak up.

Or, you're apparently okay with suppressing the right of people to vote with whom you disagree.

Either way, that's not okay.

There is NOTHING civil about that.

And still, despite everything, you refuse to comment on the issue. You avoid it to comment on others. You cannot actually type the words to criticize Trump despite his clearly abhorrent behavior despite the disrespect he heaves on you and all Americans by suppressing the right of citizens to vote.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

and still he is not impeached... Thank God it's only 3 more months

I don't think we can trust Trump -- or his supporters apparently -- with not stealing the election.

There is no guarantee he's not going to cheat. There is no guarantee he's going to leave office willfully.

 

[nota bene]

This goes beyond politics nota bene. He's stealing the election by interfering with the operations of the USPS. And I am shocked and saddened you are too much of a coward to speak up.

Shame on you.

You're apparently okay with suppressing the right of people to vote with whom you disagree.

That's not in any way okay.

There is NOTHING civil about that.

And still, despite everything, you refuse to comment on the issue. You cannot actually type the words to criticize Trump despite his clearly abhorrent behavior despite the disrespect he shoves on you and all Americans by suppressing the right of citizens to vote.

And now I'm a coward, eh? Thanks for proving my point: A thoughtful discourse is made impossible with personal attacks such as this.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

And now I'm a coward, eh? Thanks for proving my point: A thoughtful discourse is made impossible with personal attacks such as this.

I edited it out.

But...

How can anyone have a thoughtful discussion with you if you're okay with the President of the United States suppressing the right of people to vote?

What is more of a personal attack than trying to discourage one from voting, from expressing their ultimate opinion?

You're complaining about personal attacks on the one hand, but on the other, you're perfectly fine with your political opponents not voting?

That doesn't make any sense.

You don't like personal attacks, but you're perfectly fine with the President intentionally and maliciously discouraging people from voting.

WTF?!?!?!?

That doesn't make any sense.

These protestations of personal attacks don't make any sense.

You are okay with people being discouraged from voting. It doesn't get any worse than that.

Thoughtful discourse? Are you kidding me?

Through your actions, you say, "Thoughtful discourse is okay, but don't think you're going to be allowed to vote!"

 

[Perotista]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...-blocking-post-office-funding-mail-in-voting/



There is really no excuse for this kind of talk. There is no excuse for the actions Trump has been taking, such as refusing to fund the USPS back in April. There is no excuse for the crap the Postmaster General is doing such as shutting down sorting machines. It's a sad day in American history when a U.S. President essentially comes out against the act of voting. It's important to recognize how serious and how terrible this is. Trump is going to try and steal the election. That's the bottom line.

From all the articles I read, vote by mail doesn't give either party a political advantage. Why one is so oppose and the other so in favor leaves me scratching my head. This seems to fall into the old wives tale category.

There Is No Evidence That Voting By Mail Gives One Party An Advantage

There Is No Evidence That Voting By Mail Gives One Party An Advantage | FiveThirtyEight

Which Party Would Benefit Most From Voting by Mail? It’s Complicated

Would Democrats or Republicans Benefit Most from Voting by Mail? - The New York Times

Universal vote-by-mail has no impact on partisan turnout or vote share

Universal vote-by-mail has no impact on partisan turnout or vote share | PNAS

I've read a few more, so what is all the fuss about?

 

[W_Heisenberg]

It good that you can't control other people's viewpoints, nobody should be able to do that, especially a Trump supporter.

What I said is hardly silly, if you support and defend Trump, then you are supporting and defending his using foreign actors to interfere in United States elections, and you are supporting his putting our national security at risk. You are also supporting his failure to lead from the beginning with this coronavirus pandemic which caused a needless amount of Americans to lose their lives to COVID-19.

You support his divisive rhetoric which incites violence between races, religions and parties. You are supporting all of his lies and corruption, some of which caused him to be Impeached. You support his unpatriotic and disrespectful attacks on our troops, generals, ambassadors and those people of color who serve our country in the government.

You support his siding with Mr. Putin against our American intelligence, and having him help Trump cheat in yet another election. I can go on and on with other examples, but don't wish to waste any more of my time.

You think very highly of yourself, don't you? Believe me, I don't need any hints from you, just try and hear what others are saying sometimes before you start preaching. I don't "wish to persuade others", I have never said I wanted to do that. I said, 'I had no desire to convince you of anything'......get the difference there? Finally, you are the one who is attacking others here, albeit in your own passive aggressive way.

The bottom line is that civil discourse is impossible with someone like Nota Bene, someone who thinks you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

From all the articles I read, vote by mail doesn't give either party a political advantage. Why one is so oppose and the other so in favor leaves me scratching my head. This seems to fall into the old wives tale category.

There Is No Evidence That Voting By Mail Gives One Party An Advantage

There Is No Evidence That Voting By Mail Gives One Party An Advantage | FiveThirtyEight

Which Party Would Benefit Most From Voting by Mail? It’s Complicated

Would Democrats or Republicans Benefit Most from Voting by Mail? - The New York Times

Universal vote-by-mail has no impact on partisan turnout or vote share

Universal vote-by-mail has no impact on partisan turnout or vote share | PNAS

I've read a few more, so what is all the fuss about?

This may not be true anymore:

Americans who prefer in-person voting favor Donald Trump | YouGov

 

[W_Heisenberg]

not exactly sure why this shocks anyone, he can't win a straight up fair and honest election, and mail in voting is safe, so he is trying to kneecap the post office...only shot he has

It's shocking because within the context of the pandemic it represents a monumental attack on the rights of Americans to vote.

And it's not just impacting how people vote. This is now having disruptive impacts on the economy. And we have a situation where people aren't getting their medicine in a timely fashion now. All because Trump is putting his own personal political career ahead that of the country.

It's a shocking outrageous act, far worse than anything he has ever done throughout his Presidency.

This is a big, big deal.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Trump doesn't care. He is a sociopath with extreme narcissism.

His own supporters can't defend his actions, and they largely avoid him. They prefer talking about Democrats.

Yes, that is apparently very true. It is apparently very true that Trump supporters cannot talk about Trump and instead focus their attacks on the demeanor of Democrats, who are justifiably outraged by this attack on their right to vote.

I could not have said it better myself.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

I don't want to go there. My hope is it doesn't. I don't think it will on any substantive terms. But there's always Pizza-gate type nuts out there.

If somebody doesn't think you should be allowed to vote, they don't value your humanity.

And about 40% of the American population that supports Trump, appears to be perfectly fine with the other 60% having a diminished capacity to vote.

They do not value the rest of us as being equal citizens, human beings with the same rights as they do.

Within this political environment the risk of violent conflict is high. And it's very difficult to predict if it's just going to be minimal, or if it will spiral out of control.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

More news:

USPS removes mailboxes in Portland and Eugene, cites ‘declining mail volume’ - oregonlive.com

 

[W_Heisenberg]

More news, Trump is stealing the election right out in the open, right in our faces...that is clear, the question is, what are you going to do about it?

 

[Cardinal]

And your last two sentences are precisely why I refuse to comment. Having a civil discussion isn't possible with those who brand others in the way you have here. In fact, when you and others do this, you silence those who don't like Trump but also think the hyperbole is insane.

Imagine having so little moral clarity that you won't even permit yourself to say, "cheating in elections is bad."

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Imagine having so little moral clarity that you won't even permit yourself to say, "cheating in elections is bad."

You hit the nail on the head...

And I would add the following:

Having a civil discussion about politics isn't possible with someone who thinks you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

 

[Old 'N Chill]

The bottom line is that civil discourse is impossible with someone like Nota Bene, someone who thinks you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

I agree, and the combination of the excessive deaths from COVID-19 under this administration, and the active voter suppression under this administration so those who don't want to get sick and die can cast their votes in the US, is devastating.

The Trump Party has done so much damage and created so much turmoil for our citizens, it is hard to take. We can't depend on Trump or his sycophants to do the right thing for America, we just have to do our best to get our vote out to save our country and our democracy. Hopefully Trump's attempt to stop Americans from voting will not successfully help him cheat to win another election, he and Mr. Putin are working hard to destroy our country for their own self-interests. Shame on him and all those who condone this actively, or by remaining silent.

Trump is very selfish to ignore all the death and hardships we're going through at this time, he is the complete opposite of what an American President should be. Vote Democratic in November and restore some humanity.

 

[beefheart]

And your last two sentences are precisely why I refuse to comment. Having a civil discussion isn't possible with those who brand others in the way you have here. In fact, when you and others do this, you silence those who don't like Trump but also think the hyperbole is insane.

Anyone that would support making it more difficult for registered voters to vote is un-American.

 

[Cardinal]

You hit the nail on the head...

And I would add the following:

Having a civil discussion about politics isn't possible with someone who thinks you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

There's also the Occam's Razor explanation: the reason Nota Bene doesn't appear to have the moral clarity to say "election cheating is bad" is because she supports the election cheating.

Assuming she's seen this post, I'm sure we can expect her to pop in to tell me that I've placed the silverware on the wrong side of the plate. That or she'll blurt out another eighteen paragraph post that says absolutely nothing at all.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

There's also the Occam's Razor explanation: the reason Nota Bene doesn't appear to have the moral clarity to say "election cheating is bad" is because she supports the election cheating.

Assuming she's seen this post, I'm sure we can expect her to pop in to tell me that I've placed the silverware on the wrong side of the plate. That or she'll blurt out another eighteen paragraph post that says absolutely nothing at all.

Yes, women can have authoritarian personalities too:

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/241521?journalCode=jmh

 

[Perotista]

This may not be true anymore:

Americans who prefer in-person voting favor Donald Trump | YouGov

This was interesting

Democrats are slightly more divided on voting method compared with Republicans because of the preferences of Black and Hispanic Democrats. Black Democrats (42%) and Hispanic Democrats (46%) prefer in-person voting compared to white Democrats (29%). These numbers are consistent with concerns expressed by Democratic organizers about the challenge of mail voting within minority communities.

Personally, I always preferred to vote early at the county voting registers office. I did so for the presidential primary, but voted by mail for the rest of the primary and runoff and am scheduled to receive a mail in ballot for the general. Doing more reading, it does seem voting by mail causes some ballots to be deemed invalid. Signatures don't match, address doesn't match, ballot received after the deadline and so on.

But that also varies by county, some have discarded as many as 10% of the ballots due to something wrong with them, other counties almost none. The average is around 5% for all counties. This also differs by states. Some have higher disqualifications than others. There is a feeling from some that making sure your vote is counted is to vote in person, either early voting or on election day.

Depending on the circumstances, I'll receive a mail in ballot for the general, but if I can vote early in person, I will.

 

[digitusmedius]

Meanwhile, in Ohio...

Ohio rules out extra ballot drop boxes for November election

Mailboxes are being removed from areas in OR:
U.S. Postal Service Confirms It Has Removed Mailboxes in Portland and Eugene - Willamette Week
The excuse that it's due to declining mail volume is bogus on its face.

 

[digitusmedius]

Personally, I always preferred to vote early at the county voting registers office. I did so for the presidential primary, but voted by mail for the rest of the primary and runoff and am scheduled to receive a mail in ballot for the general. Doing more reading, it does seem voting by mail causes some ballots to be deemed invalid. Signatures don't match, address doesn't match, ballot received after the deadline and so on.

But that also varies by county, some have discarded as many as 10% of the ballots due to something wrong with them, other counties almost none. The average is around 5% for all counties. This also differs by states. Some have higher disqualifications than others. There is a feeling from some that making sure your vote is counted is to vote in person, either early voting or on election day.

There will no doubt be attempts in many states to discourage or curtail early voting this year. And in-person voting, especially by electronic (and no paper trail) methods, is no guarantee that votes will be more secure. In the 2004 election 100,000 electronic votes vanished. And we keep hearing about how electronic voting machines have notified the voter that they just voted for candidate "B" when they entered the vote for "A".