Trump and the death of NATO

[joluoto]

Experts fear Trump's NATO comments 'made Europe less secure'​

Trump told von der Leyen in WEF in Davos back in 2020 that NATO is dead and he'll never come to the defence of Europe. And he meant it. He's not joking, when he says something like that you should take it seriously. And since it seems more and more likely he will win this fall, NATO will become something only existing on paper. We are entering a dark and dangerous era where dictatorial regimes like Putin's Russia are allowed to freely terrorize their neighbors. NATO has not always been a good thing, but it has been the main obstacle for Russian expansion and reclamation of the Soviet space. I fear that Russia will expand the war to the Baltic States if Trump wins. And Trump might very well win.

 

[Mycroft]

Experts fear Trump's NATO comments 'made Europe less secure'​

Trump told von der Leyen in WEF in Davos back in 2020 that NATO is dead and he'll never come to the defence of Europe. And he meant it. He's not joking, when he says something like that you should take it seriously. And since it seems more and more likely he will win this fall, NATO will become something only existing on paper. We are entering a dark and dangerous era where dictatorial regimes like Putin's Russia are allowed to freely terrorize their neighbors. NATO has not always been a good thing, but it has been the main obstacle for Russian expansion and reclamation of the Soviet space. I fear that Russia will expand the war to the Baltic States if Trump wins. And Trump might very well win.

The Globalists are correct to fear a Trump win this fall, but they have nothing to fear from Russia...except when they provoke Russia.

 

[ralfy]

According to the NATO head, the goal of NATO is to protect the interests of the U.S.:

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_222258.htm

China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea are increasingly aligned.
Together, they subvert sanctions and pressure.
Weaken the US dollar-based international financial system.
Fuel Russian war in Europe.
And exploit challenges to our societies,
such as terrorism, disruptive technologies, or migration.

In these dangerous times, we must stand strong against any regime that seeks to undermine us.

That's why the same "democracies" have been trading happily with "dictatorial regimes" like Russia, China, and even Saudi Arabia, and in various cases even supported them or set them up.

 

[Arlette]

Experts fear Trump's NATO comments 'made Europe less secure'​

Trump told von der Leyen in WEF in Davos back in 2020 that NATO is dead and he'll never come to the defence of Europe. And he meant it. He's not joking, when he says something like that you should take it seriously. And since it seems more and more likely he will win this fall, NATO will become something only existing on paper. We are entering a dark and dangerous era where dictatorial regimes like Putin's Russia are allowed to freely terrorize their neighbors. NATO has not always been a good thing, but it has been the main obstacle for Russian expansion and reclamation of the Soviet space. I fear that Russia will expand the war to the Baltic States if Trump wins. And Trump might very well win.

The most recent Defense Authorization Act prohibits a president to unilaterally withdraw from NATO.

 

[joluoto]

The most recent Defense Authorization Act prohibits a president to unilaterally withdraw from NATO.

He doesn't have to withdraw from NATO. He just have to not react and ignore Article 5 if a NATO member is invaded.

 

[Rogue Valley]

 

[zincwarrior]

Its been 79 years since the end of WWII. If Western Europe can't stand on its own to protect itself from a now second rate power, thats on them. He sucks balls but he completely correct about that.

Time for the US to sunset our participation in NATO, the ME, and defending Asian countries, before we get caught up and lose a major war.

 

[jpn]

The Globalists are correct to fear a Trump win this fall, but they have nothing to fear from Russia...except when they provoke Russia.

Tell that to the Ukrainians. Tell that to Poland. Tell that to the Baltic countries. They won't believe you.

 

[jpn]

The most recent Defense Authorization Act prohibits a president to unilaterally withdraw from NATO.

True. But running around blathering about how we'll no longer honor our commitments and treaties damages US credibility around the world.

 

[Mycroft]

Tell that to the Ukrainians. Tell that to Poland. Tell that to the Baltic countries. They won't believe you.

What part of "except when they provoke Russia" do you not understand?

 

[jpn]

Trump:

“One of the presidents of a big country stood up said, ‘Well, sir, if we don’t pay and we’re attacked by Russia will you protect us?' ​

I said, ‘You didn’t pay, you’re delinquent?’ ​

He said, ‘Yes. Let’s say that happened.’ ​

‘No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You got to pay. You got to pay your bills. And the money came flowing in.”​

Of course this never happened. This is a total Trump fantasy lie to tell the cult.

Also, there was no big change in defense expenditures as a result of Trump's threats. Those began increasing in 2015, two years before Trump and after Russia invaded Ukraine for the first time.

EU financial commitment to Ukraine is now roughly twice that of the US.

 

[joluoto]

What part of "except when they provoke Russia" do you not understand?

Russia feels provoked by not controlling the territories of the USSR and the Russian Empire. So they already are "provoked" by default.

 

[mike2810]

What part of "except when they provoke Russia" do you not understand?

ahh, it seems you are saying let Russia do whatever it wants, One does not want to "provoke" Russia.

Would you feel the same if Putin decided he wants Alaska back? Should the US just let him have the Alaska because we would not want to provoke him?

 

[zincwarrior]

True. But running around blathering about how we'll no longer honor our commitments and treaties damages US credibility around the world.

Also Treaties are good 'n all, but the Executive determines movement of forces especially in an emergency.
The Treaty can say explicitly that "If X attacks, the US will launch nukes within fifteen minutes" and it means nothing unless the President orders it.

 

[zincwarrior]

Russia feels provoked by not controlling the territories of the USSR and the Russian Empire. So they already are "provoked" by default.

Thats an interesting view of 'provoked.'

 

[jpn]

What part of "except when they provoke Russia" do you not understand?

Ukraine didn't provoke Russia in 2014 or 2022 any more than Poland provoked Germany in 1939.

 

[jpn]

Also Treaties are good 'n all, but the Executive determines movement of forces especially in an emergency.
The Treaty can say explicitly that "If X attacks, the US will launch nukes within fifteen minutes" and it means nothing unless the President orders it.

Which is why Trump's ramblings are so damaging to NATO.

 

[Mycroft]

ahh, it seems you are saying let Russia do whatever it wants,

I'm saying no such thing.

One does not want to "provoke" Russia.

The Biden pukes and their WEF paymasters did.

Would you feel the same if Putin decided he wants Alaska back? Should the US just let him have the Alaska because we would not want to provoke him?

Nonsense hypothetical and hyperbole won't support your position. Try again.

 

[Mycroft]

Ukraine didn't provoke Russia in 2014 or 2022 any more than Poland provoked Germany in 1939.

I didn't mention Ukraine. We are talking about NATO.

 

[Arlette]

True. But running around blathering about how we'll no longer honor our commitments and treaties damages US credibility around the world.

Why sure, but what has that go to do with needing some big applause of approval from Trumpers at a rally?

 

[j brown's body]

What part of "except when they provoke Russia" do you not understand?

Provoking Russia while practicing popular sovereignty is classic totalitarian speak.

 

[mike2810]

I'm saying no such thing.

if you say so

The Biden pukes and their WEF paymasters did.

The Trump and his puke have not a clue about NATO.
Funny, Trump claims he want someone to pay their Bills. Maybe Trump should live by that. (unpaid lawyers, contractors)

Nonsense hypothetical and hyperbole won't support your position. Try again.

nah. Since you rarely back up your stance with facts and supporting evidence.

 

[jpn]

I didn't mention Ukraine. We are talking about NATO.

Cute.

 

[Mycroft]

Cute.

Truth.

 

[bubbabgone]

Experts fear Trump's NATO comments 'made Europe less secure'​

Trump told von der Leyen in WEF in Davos back in 2020 that NATO is dead and he'll never come to the defence of Europe. And he meant it. He's not joking, when he says something like that you should take it seriously. And since it seems more and more likely he will win this fall, NATO will become something only existing on paper. We are entering a dark and dangerous era where dictatorial regimes like Putin's Russia are allowed to freely terrorize their neighbors. NATO has not always been a good thing, but it has been the main obstacle for Russian expansion and reclamation of the Soviet space. I fear that Russia will expand the war to the Baltic States if Trump wins. And Trump might very well win.

You should provide a quote with its context, not a second hand quote from 4 years ago, when you make a claim like that. Especially when you start a thread based on it.
Your topic/link didn't have any direct quote so we're supposed to accept that it was Trump's plan rather than his encouragement for NATO members to pay what was due.
But what your link did have near the end was this ...

Governments across the continent seem to understand European allies need do more for their own defense — regardless of who will be the next US president. Those efforts are at the heart of the contingency plans European allies are working on behind the scenes, focusing on enhanced military capabilities and a more unified strategic approach.
But there's a long way to go, says American government analyst Bart Kerremans, a political science professor at Belgium's Leuven Institute for International and European Studies. "The prospect of a second Trump presidency provides a strong impetus on enhanced European cooperation and integration with respect to defense and security," Kerremans said, pointing out it is not only about Donald Trump.
"If you want to reduce the likelihood that under Trump, the US would withdraw itself from NATO, you have to do something about burden sharing. And apart from Trump, if Europe wants to play an important role in the world, it will have to invest more in defense as the world is getting less and less secure."

If you read more than the headline you'd have had that thought yourself.