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Trump and defending the indefensible

Yes I agree the innocent does invoke questions in light of the allegation.


Sorry raising questions and showing a casual connections does not indicate in any way a link. So you must expand.


You assume they remember an email comment? The claim was not they never interacted with a Russian. It was there was no ties to Russia. We do agree there is a difference right?


Disclose what? A nothing meeting that can lead to questions in light of a later claim of collusion? Why would it ring red flags? The email comment? What a minor detail easily explainawayable...[as part of a larger case, this could show somthing, so make that case]


Trust that is 100% the truth? No, that is juvile and ridiculous.

Give the benefit of the doubt still, most certainly. Trust a statement which hasn’t changed in light of new evidence beyond accusations, slander and questions ~ yes.


Podesda emails contained many of the same question raising exchanges. The impacts were minor.


Did they do it unproked? From my point of view they deny it cause baseless claims about it keep being brought out.


Do not deny this in the slightest. Raises question - yes. Criminal or unusual in itself - not even in the crazy speculative scenarios.


Based on? Generally to verify and vouch for each other yes you would.


Common. If they prioritized it I’d agree. Also, you do know russia-clinton link accusations are not unheard of right?


This witch hunt is getting insane…there are more connections between opponents and the lawyers then trump team.


Oh, you think conspiracy theories are rare in meda?


Yes, so? If we entertian Russia-Trump conspiracy ~ why not? Chances it would find a case sub 1%.

You make a lot of points so I think I will just focuse on some. Donald Trump Jr said that he had no meeting set up with Russians as part of the campaign. Also this is just one of several way he have change his stories since more information was reaveled. Why not come clean immeditly if it was a innocent meeting. Also yes you are correct you can't trust anyone 100 percent but you trust is much lower for a person that hide things and change his story.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/11/15954012/trump-jr-emails-russia

Also if they didn't trust the people arranges the meeting it's not only strange that senior staff member attended the meeting instead of junior ecpecially since you can see from the e-mail chain that it took time planing the date for meeting. Also isn't it then really stupid ithat Donald Trump Jr answer was I love it if he didn't trust the people arranging the meeting. Because how could he not then know if the material was collected with illegal means or if it was a set up?

Also you defence for Fox News spreading conspiracy theories is that everyone does it.That is really strange because shoudln't they want to show that they are trustworthy? That acting bad just because you believe other does it isn't a good defence.

Also the insane part is not believe it's a big deal that Donald Jr planned to meet with Russian offical to get dirt on Hillary also in the mail it said it was part of Russian goverment support for Donald Trump. Also how can you trust Donald Jr that nothing happend then he have changed his story so many times? Or that those e-mails couldn't have affected the elections if they got out right before the elections.
 
It’s so hard defending Trump and his staff so the attempts to do it becomes really funny.




Like for example that the Democrats supposedly tricked Donald Trump Jr into the meeting. Then they didn’t give any information to ensare the Donald Trump campaign instead the talked about adoptions. Also why did Democratic believe that the best time to give the e-mails to the press was over half a year after Hillary Clinton lost the election?


Or if the meeting was so unimportant why did both Donald Trump Jr, Kutcher and Manafort attend the meeting?


Also, if it exists e-mails that states that Donald Trump Jr could receive very high level and sensitive information that is part of Russia and its government's support for Donald Trump. There the response from Donald Trump Jr. toward the offer in those e-mails is that he loves it especially later in the summer. Also, in the same e-mails, it says that person Donald Trump Jr, Kushner and Manafort would meet is a Russian government attorney. Shouldn’t you then want to explain and declare the meeting if was totally innocent and nothing happened because think what would have happened if those e-mails had been leaked before the election?

Donald Trump Jr emails: Read the full text - Donald Trump's America - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


I didn't bother to click on the links.

You're using the Daily Show to support your Anti Trump assertion?

Wow! Just, Wow!
 
Because that has no precedence or forseeable reason to be done.


Media choice of narrative away from facts and policy is now on trump? no - that's on them.

The media discovering what I might add are ridiculously weak links to Russia. You act like Trump flew exclusively in Russian planes with russian advisors or spent a lot of time in Russia or I don’t know had a foundation who primary donors were foreign governments…nope. His advisor saw a Russian dancer once. They were even at the same table as the ambassador to Russia you know.

Trump is a billionaire international businessman with some of his team from the respected political establishment circles. Russia is a country of 144 million people operating business and political actives all around the world and is included in those political & business circles. Sometime that means you have casual interactions…so no, not every link is a damning link.

Other then your narrative what proves your link? One email comment of an obscure British publicist of a obscure eastern singer? Or what that hard-hitting tabloid-esk dossier by Christopher Steele an old spy with old Russian connections being paid with no incentive at all to play loose&fast with the truth? No it was that Flynn connection who took a modest fee to speak at an RT gala where they happened to sit this speaker with other prominent RT guests like the Russian abassador?

Yeah. Okay.


What in particular stuff do you claim trump was/is scared of getting out?


Yes taking it to the face and rolling their eyes at a political witch hunt totally makes people lose faith even though they never have before unless previously biased. No in fact it demonstrates they can hold their minds together in the whirlwind of emotional hysteria...

Question of competence and morale standard to run the country aplenty but not about Trump and team.

Sorry but you answers is a bit funny. That according to you there are a witch hunt against Trump so how can't you see that the media get more amonution if Trump and his staff with held information about meeting and connection to Russia. Also think of Micheal Flynn that had to resign or how Manafort faild registerad as a foreign agent for a pro Russian party in Ukraina. While Trump contradict himself then regarding if he have meet Putin before.

Have Trump and Putin met before? It depends when you asked - ABC News
 
I didn't bother to click on the links.

You're using the Daily Show to support your Anti Trump assertion?

Wow! Just, Wow!

Here is another link you may not like.



That you may not trust Vox or the Daily Show. Still you can't deny the actual clips from Fox News there Fox News hosts make ridiculise statement.

Not only the defence that it was a set up but there somehow the people behind it forgot to release the e-mails before the elections.

But also Donald Trump Jr didn't know better. That isn't that evidence of nepotism that Trump hirng his less competent familly members intead of more competent non familly members? Also Manafort and Kushner was also at the meeting so is it really good defence that Trump surrounds himself with incompetent people at the top of his campaign?

Also the defence that is not a big deal is funny in itself but become more funny then you think how big of deal Sean Hannity for example made out of the fact that Obama wanted "fancy mustard."
 
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Here is another link you may not like.



That you may not trust Vox or the Daily Show. Still you can't deny the actual clips from Fox News there Fox News hosts make ridiculise statement.

Not only the defence that it was a set up but there somehow the people behind it forgot to release the e-mails before the elections.

But also Donald Trump Jr didn't know better. That isn't that evidence of nepotism that Trump hirng his less competent familly members intead of more competent non familly members? Also Manafort and Kushner was also at the meeting so is it really good defence that Trump surrounds himself with incompetent people at the top of his campaign?

Also the defence that is not a big deal is funny in itself but become more funny then you think how big of deal Sean Hannity for example made out of the fact that Obama wanted "fancy mustard."


When attacking any idea, it's good to use links to the proponents of that side of the debate.

I am familiar with the issue.

The fact that the poster used a biased source biased in favor of his assertion was the point of my post.
 
I didn't bother to click on the links.

You're using the Daily Show to support your Anti Trump assertion?

Wow! Just, Wow!

You don't know what was said, but you know it's wrong.
 
You don't know what was said, but you know it's wrong.

That is not what I was commenting on.

You don't know what I was thinking, but you know it was wrong.
 
Sorry but you answers is a bit funny.
I am glad you find humor it a good medicine. I find people sensitionalism both funny and disturbing.

That according to you there are a witch hunt against Trump so how can't you see that the media get more amonution if Trump and his staff with held information about meeting and connection to Russia.
I see it as ammunition, sure. I do not expect Trump to have as much control of the world as you seem to think he does. I think hes a human being.

Also think of Micheal Flynn that had to resign
Yes because it made sense politically. Not because he did something wrong. A sane person can see that.

$45,000 to speak at an event for Rt then being sat with the ambassor of russia at that event is not suspucious.
Not declaring it in a witch hunt is unfortunate. He needs better staff.

how Manafort faild registerad as a foreign agent for a pro Russian party in Ukraina.
Not sure what your refering

While Trump contradict himself then regarding if he have meet Putin before.
He contradicted himself if your standard of proof is that of some perfect nonhuman. Here in reality. Honest people recall events in a vague way and do often need to clarify their statements in light of changing context, especially when they are 71.

Maybe if the russian witch hunt had began from the beginning. It started far after these events.

Yeah, that’s not suspicious. If you find that suspicious your paranoid.
 
Donald Trump Jr said that he had no meeting set up with Russians as part of the campaign.
Context and scale.

Also this is just one of several way he have change his stories since more information was reaveled.
What you called changed story in sane land is called clarified his statement.

Why not come clean immeditly if it was a innocent meeting.
He did, once he was aware.

Also yes you are correct you can't trust anyone 100 percent but you trust is much lower for a person that hide things and change his story.
Yes their story has not changed. They still say no collusion with Russia. Your confusing changes in story with clarifying or updating past statements.

Also if they didn't trust the people arranges the meeting it's not only strange that senior staff member attended the meeting instead of junior ecpecially since you can see from the e-mail chain that it took time planing the date for meeting.
Not true. I do business all the time. This is common. Be weird if only one came.

Also isn't it then really stupid ithat Donald Trump Jr answer was I love it if he didn't trust the people arranging the meeting.
Yes, you would love to get dirt on the opposition. That is not shocking.

Because how could he not then know if the material was collected with illegal means or if it was a set up?
He did not. That what you do at the evaluation stage. It turned out to be nothing so he did nothing.

Also you defence for Fox News spreading conspiracy theories is that everyone does it.That is really strange because shoudln't they want to show that they are trustworthy?
Here in the land where we live. Trust is a gift. Its either burned or supported.

The only people who want to show they are trustworthy are liars or people defending themselves against accusations.

That acting bad just because you believe other does it isn't a good defence.
Not sure of your meaning.

Also the insane part is not believe it's a big deal that Donald Jr planned to meet with Russian offical to get dirt on Hillary also in the mail it said it was part of Russian goverment support for Donald Trump.
Because that is is common despite what you seem to have been told. Do you deny the Hillary ukarine story as just another prominent example. Did you read the Podesta emails?

Also how can you trust Donald Jr that nothing happend then he have changed his story so many times? Or that those e-mails couldn't have affected the elections if they got out right before the elections.
He didn't. He maintains he has not colluded with Russia in anyway.

No. those emails in Podesta leaks were nothing and there is nothing there, no one has ever been charge with what you are saying…unless you imagine there is something with no objective evidence only a hunch(witch hunt). Which your welcome to investigate. Come to me when you have objective evidence.
 
To those who are skeptical there is a witch hunt here: I endeavour you to read some cases of innocent men being framed. You may gain some valuable insight into why not everyone is so quick to take every assumptive accusation at face value.

You can make what sounds like a compeling case from circumstantial noise. It is possible. It is also possible to detect it if you use the “would a reasonable person…” test.

Your know the Clinton campaign the source of all this grandstanding . Blames losing the election on a witch hunt on them. You may want to assume they learned a thing or two.
 
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To those who are skeptical there is a witch hunt here: I endeavour you to read some cases of innocent men being framed. You may gain some valuable insight into why not everyone is so quick to take every assumptive accusation at face value.

You can make what sounds like a compeling case from circumstantial noise. It is possible. It is also possible to detect it if you use the “would a reasonable person…” test.

Your know the Clinton campaign the source of all this grandstanding . Blames losing the election on a witch hunt on them. You may want to assume they learned a thing or two.

It’s a bit strange that you support Donald Trump. Not only because you trust and make excuses for Donald Trump and his staff even if they have hide things, contradict them self and make false statement, while Donald Trump is caught all the time with telling lies.

All Pants on Fire! statements involving Donald Trump | PolitiFact

Regarding Flynn and Manafort. Flynn also misled the vice president, something even Donald Trump agreed on.

"He didn't tell the vice president of the United States the facts and then he didn't remember, and that's just not acceptable," Trump told reporters at the White House at his first solo news conference as chief executive."

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/16/trump-no-i-didnt-tell-flynn-to-talk-about-sanctions-with-russia.html

Here you can also read how both Manafort and Flynn failed to register as a foreign agent.

Manafort registers as foreign agent - POLITICO

That you support for Donald Trump is also strange because Donald Trump had his supporters chant look her up about Hillary Clinton during his meeting. How can you accept that kind of mob rule if you are so concern over innocent people being framed? That Trump that now is the president of United States has set a precedent that it’s ok to chant for looking up people even before there is a trial.



On top of that you seem to be very against witch hunt, so how can you then stand behind Donald Trump then he supported the birther movement. That Donald Trump even had the nerve to question if Obama was born in USA after Obama had released his birth certificate.

14 of Donald Trump's most outrageous 'birther' claims - CNNPolitics.com
 
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When attacking any idea, it's good to use links to the proponents of that side of the debate.

I am familiar with the issue.

The fact that the poster used a biased source biased in favor of his assertion was the point of my post.

In this case it would be both take a long time and be totally pointless. Because if I tried to find and link to every Fox News clips it would take a very long time and people wouldn't bother to click on all those links. While supporters of Donald Trump and Fox News could still argue that there are a lot of clips that show that Fox News have good argument in their defence of Donald Trump Jr and I missed linking to them. So it's much more efficient that I link to the Vox and Daily Show compilations of clips from Fox News that show that Fox News makes strange and even desperate argument in their defence of Donald Trump Jr. While Trump and Fox News supporters then try to show their own clips of Fox News making smarter arguments.
 
In this case it would be both take a long time and be totally pointless. Because if I tried to find and link to every Fox News clips it would take a very long time and people wouldn't bother to click on all those links. While supporters of Donald Trump and Fox News could still argue that there are a lot of clips that show that Fox News have good argument in their defence of Donald Trump Jr and I missed linking to them. So it's much more efficient that I link to the Vox and Daily Show compilations of clips from Fox News that show that Fox News makes strange and even desperate argument in their defence of Donald Trump Jr. While Trump and Fox News supporters then try to show their own clips of Fox News making smarter arguments.

So you are presenting the edits made by the opposition press to be an accurate and fair presentation of the events? This is sad...

You could have posted this:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/11/us/politics/donald-trump-jr-email-text.html

This is actual, attributable, hard news. It is sourced and it is factual and represents something that actually happened. The last tweet is Trump Jr. spinning, but it is what it is.

Everything, EVERYTHING, presented by either SIDE that contains ANY interpretation is propaganda.

I have filtered through some of the links in Googling this topic and it's difficult to find anything relative that is NOT propaganda.

That said, I understand your posting of the propaganda you posted as it was as sewage-free as the rest of the sewage available from the sewer.

It's sad that our journalism has fallen upon these biased, agenda-driven-narratives times.
 
So you are presenting the edits made by the opposition press to be an accurate and fair presentation of the events? This is sad...

You could have posted this:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/11/us/politics/donald-trump-jr-email-text.html

This is actual, attributable, hard news. It is sourced and it is factual and represents something that actually happened. The last tweet is Trump Jr. spinning, but it is what it is.

Everything, EVERYTHING, presented by either SIDE that contains ANY interpretation is propaganda.

I have filtered through some of the links in Googling this topic and it's difficult to find anything relative that is NOT propaganda.

That said, I understand your posting of the propaganda you posted as it was as sewage-free as the rest of the sewage available from the sewer.

It's sad that our journalism has fallen upon these biased, agenda-driven-narratives times.

One argument against the videos I linked to is that it's not only clips from for example Fox News but also as you pointed out, interpretation made by the Daily Show and Vox. If you offended or just dislike those interpretations you can just press mute doing those parts of the videos. Becaue the clips speaks for them selfes and show the strange and even desperat arguments.

The other argument that can be made is that the clips are edited unetichal and doesn't truly represent that the people in the videos actually meant. I don't find it plausibel and also there are a lot of members on this forum that for example watch Fox News. So there woulld people that could remember some of the Fox clips that are in the videos from Daily Show and Vox and could when link to the original clips to prove that they there unetchial edit if it was the case. The thing is that no one have done it so far.
 
One argument against the videos I linked to is that it's not only clips from for example Fox News but also as you pointed out, interpretation made by the Daily Show and Vox. If you offended or just dislike those interpretations you can just press mute doing those parts of the videos. Becaue the clips speaks for them selfes and show the strange and even desperat arguments.

The other argument that can be made is that the clips are edited unetichal and doesn't truly represent that the people in the videos actually meant. I don't find it plausibel and also there are a lot of members on this forum that for example watch Fox News. So there woulld people that could remember some of the Fox clips that are in the videos from Daily Show and Vox and could when link to the original clips to prove that they there unetchial edit if it was the case. The thing is that no one have done it so far.

You don't seem to understand.

You are presenting opinions on opinions about hearsay as if that is fact.

Do you really not see what you are doing in this?
 
You don't seem to understand.

You are presenting opinions on opinions about hearsay as if that is fact.

Do you really not see what you are doing in this?

As I wrote you can just press mute during the part with commentary, if you don’t like them. That most of the videos are actual clips from Fox News. There no one on this forum so far have showed that Fox News have better arguments in their defense of Donald Trump Jr then the strange and desperate arguments made in those clips. There is also no provided evidence that those clips should have been unethical edited. That even you that seem to believe that Daily Show is sewage and propaganda haven’t been able to provide any proof of Daily Show wrongly editing clips from Fox News in the past.

Also, Fox News aren’t defending Donald Trump Jr against hearsay but instead against actual e-mails that Donald Trump Jr released himself because the media would have else made them public. There at in the e-mails it states that Russia support Donald Trump and want to provide dirt on Hillary Clinton as part of their support. There the response from Donald Trump Jr is, I love it.

Donald Trump Jr emails: Read the full text - Donald Trump's America - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
 
It’s a bit strange that you support Donald Trump.
Yes, I preferred his policies and he made a better show of leadership skills compared to the opposition.

…even if they have hide things, contradict them self and make false statement, while Donald Trump is caught all the time with telling lies.
I am happy to show you the methodology of almost any PolitiFact judgment is deeply flawed. I am sure they have some legit ones so you understand such a bold claim must come from a belief their methodology's currently stands about at the level of a tabloid.

Let go to article #1 on your link:
CNN’s ratings are "way down.” = Pants on Fire
poltifact said:
Trump’s claim that CNN’s ratings are down raises the question: compared to what?
Obviously if there is more the one. The one that agrees with the premise: comparative rankings. Bringing up gross viewership which by the way is less than a modestly popular youtube video is not only autistic. It’s shows a willful ignorance pandering on the lowest level of engagement by a reader and is in any view designed to misinform and distract from honest inquiry.

This autistic reading of the facts lacking any nuance in communication is found throughout the site and does not just affect Donald Trump.

Regarding Flynn and Manafort. Flynn also misled the vice president
Mislead is a political showmanship. He was a speaker at an RT event wherein he sat with Russian Ambassador(another prominent guest). That is not a thing! He has not shown an intent to deceive. You can certainly read one in. I do not. He clarified his statements and the president team felt it was still a political liability.

I wonder why? Perjury is the true enemy in a witch hunt.

Here you can also read how both Manafort and Flynn failed to register as a foreign agent.
Then we have Manafort & Flynn, who staff clearly audited previous interactions in light of a new political climate and were forced to belatedly file reports and review policies that used to be normal. Oh how deeply suspicious. Lobbying firms - lobbying. Ukrainian party sympathetic to Russia, oh how damning :-| It's almost as if a Ukrainian rival provided intel as part of their own lobbying efforts to damage their opposition…

That you support for Donald Trump is also strange because Donald Trump had his supporters chant lock her up about Hillary Clinton during his meeting.
Oh bad Donald exploiting Hillary getting caught in a political faux pas. One which legitmently would have landed someone with less political backing in jail. Not that it would have been uncovered in that case.

How can you accept that kind of mob rule
She went to jail due to their chants? Sorry, freedom of speech.

if you are so concern over innocent people being framed?
Significantly less innocent, you know with it being a real crime that’s been prosecuted before, but if your asking me where I stand on Hillary being locked up. I have no issues she was not although acknowledge there is some hypocrisy to the decion. Just one where more should go her way.

That Trump that now is the president of United States has set a precedent that it’s ok to chant for looking up people even before there is a trial.
What are you autistic? I doubt a single person thought she should go to jail without a fair trial. It’s a slogan to say she committed a crime and should face the consequences. To assume otherwise is just demonizing.

On top of that you seem to be very against witch hunt, so how can you then stand behind Donald Trump then he supported the birther movement.
I think he was wrong. I defended Obama, but Trump said someone he trusted told him and I respect that as his own subjective evidence. He should keep shut about it once he was shown objectively wrong. He did.

That Donald Trump even had the nerve to question if Obama was born in USA after Obama had released his birth certificate.
So? Obama spent some of his childhood in Indonesia. Does talking about possible conspiracy about that make one racist? No, it will be disproven by the facts.

If trump had run on birtherism, you’d have a point. He believed it, he was proved wrong. It happens.

There at in the e-mails it states that Russia support Donald Trump and want to provide dirt on Hillary Clinton as part of their support.
And the autism returns. Who wrote that email a Russian handler? No, a music producer business aquientence of Azerbaijani singer to set up a meeting with an obscure Russian & outspoken advocate of the Magnitsky Act, connected mostly to Pyotr Katsyv. An oligarch businessman. And the meeting by all accounts reflect that.

Oh no! We can read into a story. Paranoia is a hell of a drug.
 
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You are yet again being funny. That you accuse Politifact for "willful ignorance pandering on the lowest level of engagement by a reader and is in any view designed to misinform and distract from honest inquiry." While at the same time you totallt fine with Donald Trump saying ratings way down while CNN's wiever have increased, the most logic interpretation from Trump statement. That as a president you have both a duty to speek as people understand and the staff to help. That you can't like a small child claim that you just misspoke then you are caught lying. Also you havn't provided a alternative interpretion of Trump's words and why that interpretation is more logical and also correct.

You also have that Trump claimed he watched thousands of thousands of people in Jersey city cheered after 9/11. That even the most diehard Trump supporter can deny the fact that Fox News would coverage a event like that. While have not seen any Trump supporter provide those clips from Fox News.



Also I you really concerned about innocent people being framed? Because if it's ok for the president to shout look her up shouldn't people in you local town do it if someone is accused of a crime. What will that do to the risk of innocent people being framed and also woudn't that increase the risk of witchhunts? While you have a good point that Hillary is not in jail even if you now have both a republican controled White House and Congress so maybee the evidence is so strong against here as you believe. Also using private e-mail is not something Donald Trump care because for example both the vice president and his EPA chief have done it.

US Vice President Mike Pence 'used a private email to discuss security issues ? and it was hacked' | The Independent

https://www.yahoo.com/news/senator-joins-ethics-probe-could-145646593.html

Also it's reallt funny that you are against witch hunt that target sitting presidents while you have no problem that Donald Trump question if president Obama was born in America without evidence that it was just a guy he "trusted". While according to you it's really mean to accuse Donald Trump Jr even if the e-mails there he gladly says yes to get dirt on Hillary from the Russian goverment. Also you accuse people that are against Donald Trump to paraniod even with his staff many contacts with Russia and the withholding of information and incorrect statements. While you seem to believe it's ok to accuse Obama for not being born in USA just because he lived some years in Indonesia, just like other presidential candiates have lived abroad before. As you could see from my previus link, Donald Trump continue to accuse Obama even after Obama provided his birth certificate.

Also this is how Trump himself have described the people setting up the meeting with Donald Trump Jr.

"These are the most powerful people in all of Russia, the richest men in Russia," Trump said of the Agalarov pair on the red carpet of the pageant, flanked by both Aras and a smiling Emin.

Donald Trump Once Called Aras and Emin Agalarov ?The Most Powerful People In Russia?

Also I can't still understand why the Trump campaigned could send some of his junior staff instead of three senior staff members if they didn't trust and know the people.
 
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While at the same time you totallt fine with Donald Trump saying ratings way down while CNN's wiever have increased the most logic interpretaion from Trump statement.
Really? The most logical? Even though its an obscure measure rarely used and not the one their down in. My level of expectation of Poltifact as a claimed fact-checker verse a character limited post on twitter or an off the cuff statement by Donald trump is a lot higher. They have context, time & research available to explore their rebuttal and the space and means to leave caveats where they might be speculating. Trump does not have such luxuries.

It like comparing one of my posts here to a book I publish. Donald trump expressed CNN is falling in terms of influence. A true statement as expressed by comparative ratings. Any rational person could verify it for themselves albeit they may disagree. Poltifact clearly disagrees and instead of addressing his points tried to reframe his premise as absurd.

The alternative factoid that they are in fact having greater viewership despite falling comparative ratings is a misnomer designed to deceive.

I leave you an example: person A uses hyperbole to express a legitimate problem. Instead of addressing the issues Person B screams "liar" and goes on the explain person A was using hyperbole.

Being a liar is about the intention to deceive not the common marketing practice of hyperbole. Person B is the one lying. They the ones refusing to talk about the issues because of semantics.

You also have that Trump claimed he watched thousands of thousands of people in Jersey city cheered after 9/11.
See above…at least there you have a real distortion. You don’t think anyone cheered 9/11? People did, that is a fact whether its 100 or 10,000,000 is irrelevant to the context of the expression. Explain to me how that hyperbole makes trumps real point any less relevant and then we can talk.

have not seen any Trump supporter provide those clips from Fox News.
They don’t exist. Doesn’t change the fact a large amount of people did cheer 9/11 whether their not dumb enough to do it on television or not. Do you honestly deny that people were happy at 9/11? Sorry trump saying “I saw it” verse “I know it” doesn't make him a liar IMHO :roll:

Also I you really concerned about innocent people being framed?
I am concerned people don’t talk the issues anymore and that innocent people are getting harmed because of it.

Because if it's ok for the president to shout look her up shouldn't people in you local town do it if someone is accused of a crime.
Equivalency error. Secondly, that happens in some cases.

Also using private e-mail is...
The crime was not the private e-mail server, the crime was classified information sent on that server as reported by the investigation.

you are against witch hunt that target sitting presidents
I did not say I was for Donald charging Obama with birtherism. I said I do not hold it against him, since he dropped it when he was proved wrong.

you accuse people that are against Donald Trump to paraniod
I never said it was really mean to accuse. It is their right to accuse and investigate their suspicions.
100% of the public facing information is not suspicious to the reasonable persons test, so claims it is damning are paranoid, yes.

"withholding of information" = when you have reasonable ground to know it was relevant
"incorrect statements" = when you statement are not the best of your knowledge

Clarifying statement is when you revise a statement in light of a new context, like say a later investigation and that is what we see here.

Also this is how Trump himself described the people setting up the meeting.
Nice reading into what we can not know. The thinking of Trump Jr. but alas I didn’t say the question was invalid did I?

I said, we know the meeting…and it looks like Goldstone lied in order to get a meeting for Natalia Veselnitskaya to advocate for her issues with the Magnitsky Act. End of story for someone not seeking a paranoid narrative. This is “a dot” on the birth-certificate level stuff.

Also I can't still understand why the Trump campaigned could send some of his junior staff
To evaluate the possible highly senstive information being claimed.

If this was evidence of “Hillary colluding with the Russians” you’d want that information with a low level jr staffer?
 
So, you can’t see that it’s confusing and wrong to say that CNN rating is way down then they drastically increase their viewership? Also, even if Trump meant in comparison with other news channel, CNN viewership has increased roughly the same amount in total as Fox News. That they have only really lost in market share towards MSNBC a news channel that Donald Trump also claims is “Fake News”. That what Donald Trump calls “Fake News” channels have in total increased their market share compared to Fox News.

Cable News Ratings: CNN, Fox News, MSNBC All Post Double-Digit Growth | Variety

So, you would be totally fine with main stream media publishing or at least a Democrat politician telling a story about meetings with tens of thousands of Nazi Trump supporters? Because hey its totally fine to use exaggeration according to you. Also, that claim would be a lot more honest than Trump’s claim. Because you have showed no video of people in Jersey City celebrating 9/11 while it easy to find videos of meetings with Nazi Trump supporters.

Neo-Nazi 'alt-right' crowd cheers the president-elect with 'Hail Trump' - LA Times

Also, it’s interesting how you can go from hating witch hunt to claim that “everyone knows” large amount of people celebrated during 9/11 without providing any evidence.

If people already today shout look him/her up before people are sentenced to jail. Do we then really need a presidential candidate and now president that have done it to. Because that’s send a clear message that behavior like that is ok. Thereby risking more innocent people being sent to jail.

Mueller investigation is ongoing so with your logic it’s ok to still speculate about Trump collaborating with the Russian. Especially since the evidence is much more than just a guy Trump knows. Also, as you can see from my previous link Trump continue to accuse Obama even after Obama provides his birth certificate.

I also just wanted out that it was not only obscure people that set up the meeting but also according to Donald Trump the richest and powerful people in Russia. Also, there are no independent witnesses that claims nothing happens. Instead it’s for example Donald Jr that change his story many times that claims nothing happened. Also, the people attending the meeting seem to have a hard time remembering the meeting, so it could maybe have been better send junior staff that have a better skill for recording keeping and also that understand getting dirt on an opponent from a foreign government is a big deal.
 
So, you can’t see that it’s confusing and wrong to say that CNN rating is way down then they drastically increase their viewership?
To be brutally honest I could care less about CNN's viewership it has about zero to do with the issues that matter and if I did I'd go to ratings not trump.
What I do take issue with is a site which is using the guise of fact-checking to discredit politicians they don't like by using a ridiculous methodology. What Politifact fails to do is tap into nuance of communication, a favourite debate tacit of the ignorant to avoid making arguments in favour of distracting the audience with insults, and as such their declarations of liar are completely devoid of merit to anyone not looking to justify an agenda.

Was Donald trump intention to deceive the American people with this comment?
Of course not!
In fact he was expressing a true sentiment which is that CNN is losing influence to things like the alternative media.
Where did it come from? A simple google search bring up these two examples:
CNN Can't Crack Top 10 In Cable Ratings | The Daily Caller
CNN Loses Primetime Weekly Ratings Battle to TLC, Nick-at-Nite
Two blogs expressing opinions which attack CNN on their comparative ratings with zero claims of being objective.

Now twitter, the medium in question gives you 140 characters to basically produce a headline. He used it to rally the base who feels attacked by organizations like CNN who talk down to his supporter and produce slander and propaganda. I could see that if I was a partisan democrat who loved CNN. I could see that if I was a Trump fanatic. It’s called objective analysis of the facts, a thing Politifact fails to comprehend in a quest to label politicians liars.

So, you would be totally fine with main stream media publishing or at least a Democrat politician telling a story about meetings with tens of thousands of Nazi Trump supporters?
They didn’t? Any objective observer knows Trump disavows white nationalist sentiments. He believes in American values and any attempt to label associate him with nazis is propaganda.

Even so, you know why that does not equate?

What is the context of “10,000 people celebrating 9/11?” To bring attention to the “war on terror” and protecting America. You know a real policy.

What is the context of “10,000 nazi celebrating Trump?” To smear Trumps reputation and ideas so you don’t have to argue their merits.

Do I really need to explain why the later is deceptive and the former is hyperbole?

...while it easy to find videos of meetings with Nazi Trump supporters.
Shows your investigative talents. Care to guess if that was in jest or for serious? Care to suggest what policy that speaks too?

“everyone knows” large amount of people celebrated during 9/11 without providing any evidence.
You honestly believe there are not people happy about 9/11? Seriously? You need me to prove that to you?
 
Thereby risking more innocent people being sent to jail.
We believe in this thing called a fair trial here in America. I am sorry you can’t see from the context past your hate propaganda to separate a slogan “lock her up(she’s guilty->put it to trial)” from a desire to lock up political opponents, a real problem which actually happens in this world. It's a sick conflation IMHO. I can only imagine your thoughts on "Bill Clinton is rapist" is that hurting people too?

Mueller investigation is ongoing so with your logic it’s ok to still speculate about Trump collaborating with the Russian. Especially since the evidence is much more than just a guy Trump knows. Also, as you can see from my previous link Trump continue to accuse Obama even after Obama provides his birth certificate.
Yes anyone is allowed to investigate their suspicions and the raises questions. Mueller is even welcome to think Trump’s guilty but public opinion should reflect the merits of the case and any claim of his guilt should be backed up with solid case. They are not even back up with by a weak case. The smell of accusations and slander is strong. I await the damning smoking gun like you know an FBI report which states "classified information" was sent against the law.

Instead it’s for example Donald Jr that change his story many times that claims nothing happened.
His story has always been the same “nothing happened” the details have been clarified. There is a difference.

Also, the people attending the meeting seem to have a hard time remembering the meeting
Umm, as one would expect this isn’t exactly a huge life shuttering event. Its a meeting hyped up that turned out to be nothing.

so it could maybe have been better send junior staff that have a better skill for recording keeping and also that understand getting dirt on an opponent from a foreign government is a big deal.
Except it’s not. Example: Alexandra Chalupa: Ukraine:Clinton.

It would only be damning if one can show Russian collusion directly directed by Putin or the Russian government. That however is the premise, you can’t loop your evidence into your premise and call it damning. What your going to use a report showing Russian interference….except you then have to show then this meeting was not what it appeared to be(knowledge of collusion)…

No matter how you slice it, it’s only bad if you assume its bad because DNC media machine told you so…
 
With each passing lame attempt at defending his actions and lies, Trump supporters prove just how ignorant they really are.

With each passing lie and lame excuse, Trump shows just how stupid he knows that his own supporters really are.
 
To be brutally honest I could care less about CNN's viewership it has about zero to do with the issues that matter and if I did I'd go to ratings not trump.
What I do take issue with is a site which is using the guise of fact-checking to discredit politicians they don't like by using a ridiculous methodology. What Politifact fails to do is tap into nuance of communication, a favourite debate tacit of the ignorant to avoid making arguments in favour of distracting the audience with insults, and as such their declarations of liar are completely devoid of merit to anyone not looking to justify an agenda.

Was Donald trump intention to deceive the American people with this comment?
Of course not!
In fact he was expressing a true sentiment which is that CNN is losing influence to things like the alternative media.
Where did it come from? A simple google search bring up these two examples:
CNN Can't Crack Top 10 In Cable Ratings | The Daily Caller
CNN Loses Primetime Weekly Ratings Battle to TLC, Nick-at-Nite
Two blogs expressing opinions which attack CNN on their comparative ratings with zero claims of being objective.

Now twitter, the medium in question gives you 140 characters to basically produce a headline. He used it to rally the base who feels attacked by organizations like CNN who talk down to his supporter and produce slander and propaganda. I could see that if I was a partisan democrat who loved CNN. I could see that if I was a Trump fanatic. It’s called objective analysis of the facts, a thing Politifact fails to comprehend in a quest to label politicians liars.


They didn’t? Any objective observer knows Trump disavows white nationalist sentiments. He believes in American values and any attempt to label associate him with nazis is propaganda.

Even so, you know why that does not equate?

What is the context of “10,000 people celebrating 9/11?” To bring attention to the “war on terror” and protecting America. You know a real policy.

What is the context of “10,000 nazi celebrating Trump?” To smear Trumps reputation and ideas so you don’t have to argue their merits.

Do I really need to explain why the later is deceptive and the former is hyperbole?


Shows your investigative talents. Care to guess if that was in jest or for serious? Care to suggest what policy that speaks too?


You honestly believe there are not people happy about 9/11? Seriously? You need me to prove that to you?

I have showed that CNN have increased its viewership. While it’s marker share haven’t become significantly lower compared to Fox News. While you have provided no proof that Donald Trump’s claim that CNN ratings are way down is true.

Right wing terrorism is a real threat in America. Also in Europe, you have Anders Breivik that killed 77 people in Norway, there most of them their teenagers.

https://www.adl.org/news/press-releases/adl-report-exposes-right-wing-terrorism-threat-in-the-us

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

So of course, it’s a problem that far right extremists believes that the president is on their side and celebrated his election win and of course the media should report about that fact. While at the same time it of course good that the president disavows them. Still then he says things like that thousands of Muslims in just one relative small American city celebrate 9/11 those far-right extremists can believe both them and their belief have the support of Trump. Also to his normal and trusting supporters Donald Trump can explain it as an accident that he uses material created by white supremacists and racists. While those white supremacists and racists can see it is in evidence of that Trump supports them even if he can’t do it in open.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/03/trump-tweet-reddit-user-history-hanassholesolo

Yes, if you are so concerned about what you believe is others witch hunt and others false claims you should provide evidence to your own claims. That you haven’t provided a video of a single person in Jersey City or even in the entire USA that celebrated after 9/11, while the president you support claim he watched thousands celebrating just in Jersey City. While I have provide video of Nazis celebrating Trump.
 
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We believe in this thing called a fair trial here in America. I am sorry you can’t see from the context past your hate propaganda to separate a slogan “lock her up(she’s guilty->put it to trial)” from a desire to lock up political opponents, a real problem which actually happens in this world. It's a sick conflation IMHO. I can only imagine your thoughts on "Bill Clinton is rapist" is that hurting people too?


Yes anyone is allowed to investigate their suspicions and the raises questions. Mueller is even welcome to think Trump’s guilty but public opinion should reflect the merits of the case and any claim of his guilt should be backed up with solid case. They are not even back up with by a weak case. The smell of accusations and slander is strong. I await the damning smoking gun like you know an FBI report which states "classified information" was sent against the law.


His story has always been the same “nothing happened” the details have been clarified. There is a difference.


Umm, as one would expect this isn’t exactly a huge life shuttering event. Its a meeting hyped up that turned out to be nothing.


Except it’s not. Example: Alexandra Chalupa: Ukraine:Clinton.

It would only be damning if one can show Russian collusion directly directed by Putin or the Russian government. That however is the premise, you can’t loop your evidence into your premise and call it damning. What your going to use a report showing Russian interference….except you then have to show then this meeting was not what it appeared to be(knowledge of collusion)…

No matter how you slice it, it’s only bad if you assume its bad because DNC media machine told you so…

As I understand it you have jury trials in America so can’t those jury trials become less fair if you have people going around shouting look him/her up about people they suspect of a crime?

The suspicion against Trump and his staff is at least so strong that you have a Republican Deputy Attorney General that have appointed a Republican special prosecutor to investigate Trump and his staff. While the only evidence Trump had against Obama when he accused him of being not born in USA was “some guy”. Their Mueller continues to expand his investigation.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/20/trum...finances-apart-from-russia-investigation.html

While Donald Trump is doing a good job looking more guilty.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
 
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