Trump’s Running Tab in the Abrego Garcia Case

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Your comment about what Trump wanted is pure TDS. The mistake was in sending him to El Salvador when his deportation order said not to.

What Is happening to Garcia now is in accordance with the law. Maybe it's not a law that you like, but that's just too bad.

Now we are "grabbing" people who are either criminals or who have had due process and been ordered, by a court, out of the country.
Why do you want to keep either one of those groups in this country?

Get it right - they are not just being deported, they are being sent to a foreign jail.

If you are so happy that laws are being followed, why did you vote for a felon? Did you also applaud when he freed 1600 Jan. 6th rioters? trump is very selective with the law; he uses his power to pardon people he likes, he uses the DOJ to hassle people he hates, and he uses every means at his disposal to bend the legal system to his own advantage.

I have nothing against people that come here looking for work. They are good for the economy. They aren't taking jobs away from Americans or otherwise negatively affecting us with their mere presence.

What I absolutely despise is the direction our country has taken under trump. Government agents should not be wearing masks. Marines should not be deployed against citizens. People should not be sent to foreign jails. We have become a creepy authoritarian country under trump. This is but one manifestation of that rot.

 

[JoeB131]

Your comment about what Trump wanted is pure TDS. The mistake was in sending him to El Salvador when his deportation order said not to.

What Is happening to Garcia now is in accordance with the law. Maybe it's not a law that you like, but that's just too bad.

Now we are "grabbing" people who are either criminals or who have had due process and been ordered, by a court, out of the country.
Why do you want to keep either one of those groups in this country?

Guy, the problem is that if you are going to use the law to persecute one individual, none of us are safe.

If the government decided one day to turn it's full fury against you, how do you think you would do? If they said they would give actual criminals time off their sentences to testify against you, how do you think you would fare?

I am all for deporting people who are truly dangerous.

The mother of the Cancer Patient isn't one of those people.

U.S. citizen children, including 4-year-old with cancer, taken to Honduras on mother's deportation flight, legal advocates say

Two siblings, ages 4 and 7, were flown out of the U.S. on their mother’s deportation flight before attorneys could reach them, according to the National Immigration Project.

www.nbcnews.com

The Korean soldier who was wounded in Panama and got busted for drugs isn't one of those people.

Purple Heart veteran self-deports to South Korea after 48 years in US

Sae Joon Park, 55, said immigration officials were threatening to detain him if he did not leave the U.S.

www.usatoday.com

The Hmong woman who never lived in Laos isn't one of those people.

In Milwaukee since she was an infant, a 37-year-old Hmong American woman has been deported to Laos. What to know.

Ma Yang, who has lived in the Milwaukee area since she was a baby, believes she is one of the first Hmong Americans deported to Laos in recent years.

www.jsonline.com

Abrego-Garcia isn't one of those people.

 

[RetiredAtLast]

Get it right - they are not just being deported, they are being sent to a foreign jail.

Please show that people who are deported subject to an order of removal by a court are "being sent to a foreign jail."

If you are so happy that laws are being followed, why did you vote for a felon?

Because I have serious reservations about the process under which he was convicted.

Did you also applaud when he freed 1600 Jan. 6th rioters?

No, but it was legal, just as pardons of criminals by other Presidents was legal.

I have nothing against people that come here looking for work.

Neither do I, if they do so legally; if we have a chance to know their background before they get here.

What I absolutely despise is the direction our country has taken under trump.

I suspect what you despise is the fact that Trump is President, and a Democrat isn't.

Government agents should not be wearing masks.

Of course they wear masks to protect themselves and their families from violence. Do you favor doxxing them, too?

Marines should not be deployed against citizens.

Marines are deployed to protect Federal property from rioters. In the case of L.A., the Chief of Police said they were "overwhelmed." should we just allow rioters to destroy Federal property because the police can't handle the mob?

People should not be sent to foreign jails.

Criminals are deported to foreign countries, and those foreign countries put criminals in jail. That includes members of criminal gangs.

We have become a creepy authoritarian country

Horse puckey. Look up "authoritarian" instead of just repeating what the Party says.

 

[RetiredAtLast]

Guy, the problem is that if you are going to use the law to persecute one individual, none of us are safe.

If you fail to use the law to PROsecute one individual, none of us are safe.

If the government decided one day to turn it's full fury against you, how do you think you would do? If they said they would give actual criminals time off their sentences to testify against you, how do you think you would fare?

Not well, and I disagree with using jail house informants for that reason.

I am all for deporting people who are truly dangerous.

So you think massive illegal immigration is OK? How do you know, beforehand, if they are "truly dangerous" or not?

The mother of the Cancer Patient isn't one of those people.

The mother of the cancer patient had, at some time in the past, been ordered out of the country. Normal process is that parents to be deported are asked if they want any citizen children to go with them. Your article doesn't say if that happened and, for some reason, her attorney doesn't want to talk about it except to condemn it. I think some provision should have been made for these people to stay in this country temporarily.

The Korean soldier who was wounded in Panama and got busted for drugs isn't one of those people.

He had 30 days to appeal his deportation order. He chose to spend that time in So. Korea. He has lawyers working on it. Why didn't he apply for citizenship when he returned any time in the last half a century as many veterans did when special opportunities were made available to them?

The Hmong woman who never lived in Laos isn't one of those people.

She was a DRUG DEALER!

Abrego-Garcia isn't one of those people.

You don't know that (his wife thought he was).

OK, At best, you may have 3 people out of hundreds of thousands. Shit happens. I'm sorry about the woman with the child who has cancer and agree she should have been allowed to make some provision for the child. The other two chose to be involved in the drug trade.

 

[WorldWatcher]

According to the charges brought by the right, he's a human trafficker...shouldnt we seek justice?

He's charged with Human Smuggling.

Human Trafficking is different.

WW

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Please show that people who are deported subject to an order of removal by a court are "being sent to a foreign jail."

The migrants were deported after Trump’s declaration of the Alien Enemies Act of 1798, which has been used only three times in U.S. history.

The law requires a president to declare the U.S. is at war, giving him extraordinary powers to detain or remove foreigners who otherwise would have protections under immigration or criminal laws. Trump claimed the Tren de Aragua gang was invading the U.S. in invoking the wartime authority.

The Trump administration has not identified the migrants deported, provided any evidence they are in fact members of Tren de Aragua or that they committed any crimes in the U.S.

What to know about the El Salvador mega-prison where Trump sent hundreds of immigrants

The crown jewel of El Salvador's aggressive anti-crime strategy — a mega-prison where visitation, recreation and education are not allowed — became the latest tool in U.S. President Donald Trump's crackdown on immigration on Sunday, when hundreds of immigrants facing deportation were transferred...

www.pbs.org

Because I have serious reservations about the process under which he was convicted.

But you have no such reservations about Garcia. And still - you having some doubts about all of those convictions and indictments is a pretty low bar for electing somebody POTUS.

No, but it was legal, just as pardons of criminals by other Presidents was legal.

Great.

I suspect what you despise is the fact that Trump is President, and a Democrat isn't.

I despise exactly what I said I despise. We've had presidents that I don't like before, but they have never done this much damage to my country.

Of course they wear masks to protect themselves and their families from violence. Do you favor doxxing them, too?

I'm not crazy about doxxing anybody, but it's a tool when there is little else. If these guys aren't doing anything wrong, they shouldn't be worried about being identified. My local cops sure don't wear masks to hide their identities.

Marines are deployed to protect Federal property from rioters. In the case of L.A., the Chief of Police said they were "overwhelmed." should we just allow rioters to destroy Federal property because the police can't handle the mob?

trump did just that on Jan. 6th, when it benefitted him.

Criminals are deported to foreign countries, and those foreign countries put criminals in jail. That includes members of criminal gangs.

See above.

Horse puckey. Look up "authoritarian" instead of just repeating what the Party says.

34 out of 35 Scholars Agree: Trump is a Lawless Authoritarian

Cornell Law professor Michael C. Dorf evaluates the constitutional and legal abuses committed by Donald Trump during his second term as president, based on a New York Times survey of 35 legal scholars...

verdict.justia.com

 

[JoeB131]

Because I have serious reservations about the process under which he was convicted.

What, you mean you have a problem with stretching the law to get someone you don't like?
But you have no problem stretching the law to get someone you don't like.

Got it.

The mother of the cancer patient had, at some time in the past, been ordered out of the country. Normal process is that parents to be deported are asked if they want any citizen children to go with them. Your article doesn't say if that happened and, for some reason, her attorney doesn't want to talk about it except to condemn it. I think some provision should have been made for these people to stay in this country temporarily.

Why not permanently? Her children are US citizens, there's no good reason to throw her out.

He had 30 days to appeal his deportation order. He chose to spend that time in So. Korea. He has lawyers working on it. Why didn't he apply for citizenship when he returned any time in the last half a century as many veterans did when special opportunities were made available to them?

If you read the specifics of his case, he wasn't allowed the usual route for aliens to gain citizenship because he was medically discharged before he had enough time in. Frankly, because I have a heart and a soul, I think that once we gave him the Purple Heart, his citizenship should have been right next to it.

She was a DRUG DEALER!

She was dealing pot from a legal dispensary in CA. And she wasn't even dealing the drugs, just handling the money.

Without getting into the pure stupidity that is the war on drugs, this is an excessive action against someone who wasn't doing anything that serious.

 

[poppopfox]

Get it right - they are not just being deported, they are being sent to a foreign jail.

If you are so happy that laws are being followed, why did you vote for a felon? Did you also applaud when he freed 1600 Jan. 6th rioters? trump is very selective with the law; he uses his power to pardon people he likes, he uses the DOJ to hassle people he hates, and he uses every means at his disposal to bend the legal system to his own advantage.

I have nothing against people that come here looking for work. They are good for the economy. They aren't taking jobs away from Americans or otherwise negatively affecting us with their mere presence.

What I absolutely despise is the direction our country has taken under trump. Government agents should not be wearing masks. Marines should not be deployed against citizens. People should not be sent to foreign jails. We have become a creepy authoritarian country under trump. This is but one manifestation of that rot.

Nice summation!

 

[RetiredAtLast]

The migrants were deported after Trump’s declaration of the Alien Enemies Act

I asked about people who were "deported subject to an order of removal by a court." The people who were deported under the Alien Enemies Act were members of criminal gangs.

But you have no such reservations about Garcia.

Garcia was under an order of removal by an immigration court because he was in this country illegally. AFAIK, no one disputes that he was here illegally, even himself.

And still - you having some doubts about all of those convictions and indictments is a pretty low bar for electing somebody POTUS.

I didn't vote for him because of any convictions.

We've had presidents that I don't like before, but they have never done this much damage to my country.

You see something as damage. Millions don't agree with you.

If these guys aren't doing anything wrong, they shouldn't be worried about being identified.

They doing something that is legal but very unpopular with people in the places where those things have to be done. When police are doing similar things, they are masked.

34 out of 35 Scholars Agree: Trump is a Lawless Authoritarian

Cornell Law professor Michael C. Dorf evaluates the constitutional and legal abuses committed by Donald Trump during his second term as president, based on a New York Times survey of 35 legal scholars...

verdict.justia.com

34 out of 35 academics agreeing to anything political is meaningless

 

[RetiredAtLast]

What, you mean you have a problem with stretching the law to get someone you don't like?
But you have no problem stretching the law to get someone you don't like.

No, I mean iI have serious reservations about the conditions under which Trump was convicted.

Why not permanently? Her children are US citizens, there's no good reason to throw her out.

And therein lies the crux of the "birthright citizenship" issue before the USSC right now. Whatever the status of the child, the parent is an illegal alien and has no right to be in this country. Giving birth does not give her any such rights.

I think that once we gave him the Purple Heart, his citizenship should have been right next to it.

Maybe it should have been, and maybe I agree with you but - under the laws at the time - it wasn't.

She was dealing pot from a legal dispensary in CA. And she wasn't even dealing the drugs, just handling the money

She was involved in illegal drug selling.

Without getting into the pure stupidity that is the war on drugs, this is an excessive action against someone who wasn't doing anything that serious.

If a crime isn't serious it has a non-serious designation.
Look, you've got 2-1/2 out of hundreds of thousands. In doing anything with people, things are going to go wrong for some small number. The choice is not to just stop enforcing the law. If a mistake is made the person can sue the government, and won't have any problem finding a lawyer. But there are 330 million people in this country with almost as many ideas about what's fair, or nice. That's why we elect thousands of people, from the smallest town to the Congress, to make laws, hire people to enforce them and establish courts to decide the outcome. We even have Appeals Courts and a Supreme Court, just to try to make sure. Even so, some people will disagree with the result.

 

[poppopfox]

34 out of 35 academics agreeing to anything political is meaningless

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

I asked about people who were "deported subject to an order of removal by a court." The people who were deported under the Alien Enemies Act were members of criminal gangs.

Not all of them, apparently.

Garcia was under an order of removal by an immigration court because he was in this country illegally. AFAIK, no one disputes that he was here illegally, even himself.

So off he goes to a gulag in El Salvador?

I didn't vote for him because of any convictions.

No, you voted for him in spite of 34 convictions, two impeachments, 80-90 other indictments, holding classified materials and obstructing their return, numerous sexual assault allegations and related defamation, holding up arm shipments to Ukraine to get dirt on Biden, fomenting an insurrection on Jan. 6th (and NOT calling the National Guard), planning to overturn a valid election via fake slates of electors and plain old intimidation, a close friendship with Jeffrery Epstein, and bungling the COVID response. You are very forgiving in some regards.

You see something as damage. Millions don't agree with you.

The same millions who still believe Obama is a secret Muslim who wasn't born in the U.S.? Millions of idiots.

34 out of 35 academics agreeing to anything political is meaningless

Did you even read the article? They made lots of good points.

I understand that you want 100% of illegal immigrants out of the country, even though it would be a disaster economically. But you shouldn't want that at all costs. trump is doing big, lasting damage to the rule of law in this country. And he let Musk do big, lasting damage to a lot of good programs. The damage done to medical research alone was a tragedy. Hope you never get cancer.

 

[RetiredAtLast]

So off he goes to a gulag in El Salvador?

A "gulag" is a system of labor camps. Garcia didn't go to a gulag, no matter what the Party says.

No, you voted for him in spite of 34 convictions

Yep.

The same millions who still believe Obama is a secret Muslim who wasn't born in the U.S.?

Are you having trouble keeping your thoughts relative to the thread, or is it your time now to just throw whatever shit you can think of?

Did you even read the article? They made lots of good points.

No, really? Why am I not surprised that you think so? You do know, don't you, that most of these letters are written by a political operative and just signed by whoever can be recruited? Like the letter from a bunch of "former intel people" that turned out to be a pack of lies.

I understand that you want 100% of illegal immigrants out of the country,

No, I don't. You understand, err, assume wrong.

The damage done to medical research alone was a tragedy.

You have no idea what medical grant programs that were cancelled, restarted, or why. For example, one is a $25 million grant to find out why some teenage boys that have sex with men also use drugs. (I won't even go into shrimp running on a treadmill.) I have a list of them all, if you'd like to spend your spare time going through it.

You're just throwing shit against a wall now. Not useful.

 

[Fearandloathing]

There's a whole lot of dumb to respond to in your barely intelligible post, so let me just hit a few points.

Right now, the DOJ is preparing to prosecute Garcia on a whole bunch of charges, including human trafficking. I have no idea if Garcia is guilty or not, but he had a pretty clean record before being picked up. Point is, I don't trust this administration. I know you don't care about due process and justice as long as it's not you getting screwed, you have made that much clear. And to be frank, if it was you who was getting swept up by ICE and unfairly treated, I'm not sure that I would protest all that much. I have to admit that I enjoy news stories about MAGAts who are getting picked up, or their wives/husbands picked up, because it's not often that you really get what you vote for.

I was with you until that.

Revenge should never be the aim of any law or legal undertaking.

you are as bad as they

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

You have no idea what medical grant programs that were cancelled, restarted, or why. For example, one is a $25 million grant to find out why some teenage boys that have sex with men also use drugs. (I won't even go into shrimp running on a treadmill.) I have a list of them all, if you'd like to spend your spare time going through it.

You're just throwing shit against a wall now. Not useful.

Actually, I have a pretty GD good idea of what has been cancelled. I happen to be close with a grant administrator who was caught up in Musk's indiscriminate cuts. And I worked in research labs for about ten years. When funds are frozen (as they were), labs go broke pretty quickly, and you can't just restart a lot of that research. It's like not watering your garden for a month or two, then expecting your plants to come back from the dead when you start watering them again. People outside of the field really have no clue about how research works.

As for your well-worn examples of "wastes of money," let me try to explain something to you; when a research lab puts a shrimp on a treadmill, they aren't trying to see how fit shrimp are. They are studying something more relevant to humans and using shrimp, or mice, or cell cultures, etc., to do so. Each piece of research is a small brick in a very large brick wall. Nobody sets out to find a cure for cancer without tons of previous research to start with. And all of these grants go through a thorough peer review process run by the same government agencies that trump and Musk took a figurative chainsaw to. So the next time you pop a pill that helps you get better, or get vaccinated, or get treatment for cancer, maybe thank those researchers who used shrimp or mice or whatever looks like a waste of money to you for their contribution. They certainly didn't get rich doing that research.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Revenge should never be the aim of any law or legal undertaking.

Revenge isn't the aim of the law. (Maybe it is for trump, I don't know.) This is more like karma.

 

[RetiredAtLast]

" let me try to explain something to you; when a research lab puts a shrimp on a treadmill, they aren't trying to see how fit shrimp are. They are studying something more relevant to humans and using shrimp, or mice, or cell cultures, etc., to do so.

So they say. But a question is, Of what use is that to people?

Nobody sets out to find a cure for cancer without tons of previous research to start with.

Cancer brings up a point. One program cut was a study of glioblastoma. There were at least six other programs studying the same cancer. There were already several clinical trial in process. Now, you might say, the more study the better. But with a $36 trillion debt, how many studies at $100 million or more each, can we afford? And how far was this study progressing in comparison to the others? We don't know the answers to questions like these. All we know is that the people who have lost their funding, and others like the, complain that "people will die" because a particular study was cancelled.

They certainly didn't get rich doing that research.

The researchers don't. In the case of universities, they certainly do. The existence of that research is used to attract students at $90,000 per year per student. It's one of the reasons that Harvard has a $53 billion endowment, Stanford has $38 billion, etc.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

So they say. But a question is, Of what use is that to people?

Are you joking here? Medicines. Treatment. Saving lives, and making outcomes better in general.

Cancer brings up a point. One program cut was a study of glioblastoma. There were at least six other programs studying the same cancer. There were already several clinical trial in process. Now, you might say, the more study the better. But with a $36 trillion debt, how many studies at $100 million or more each, can we afford? And how far was this study progressing in comparison to the others? We don't know the answers to questions like these. All we know is that the people who have lost their funding, and others like the, complain that "people will die" because a particular study was cancelled.

About 10,000 Americans die of glioblastoma every year. There should be dozens of programs studying glioblastoma, not seven, and certainly not six. And just because there are clinical trials doesn't mean that the cure has been found.

$billions are a drop in the bucket of the federal budget. Cancer research is certainly not the place to look for savings. And I understand that federal finance probably isn't your thing, but the government has its own unlimited supply of money. And they are not in debt, in any sensible meaning of the word "debt." Bonds are simply how they choose to exercise their power to create and spend their own money. (There are threads on the subject of federal funding if you are interested, but I don't want to derail this thread.)

The researchers don't. In the case of universities, they certainly do. The existence of that research is used to attract students at $90,000 per year per student. It's one of the reasons that Harvard has a $53 billion endowment, Stanford has $38 billion, etc.

Those universities have large endowments because their alumna understand the value of what they do. If you are against colleges with big endowments, make sure to refuse any future treatments that have sprung from their research.

 

[RetiredAtLast]

Are you joking here? Medicines. Treatment. Saving lives, and making outcomes better in general.

OK. How does a shrimp on a treadmill contribute to all of that? Or are you saying that all medical research is good and valuable.

There should be dozens of programs studying glioblastoma,

If all research were free, or if we had an unlimited amount of debt-free money I'd be the first to agree. But I now have a metastasized cancer and have survived two other forms of cancer, and I can I tell you something you may not know; This isn't a perfect world. There is optimism that AI may help to develop treatments and possibly cures, giving us more "bang for the buck." Let's hope so.

$billions are a drop in the bucket of the federal budget.

<CHUCKLE> That reminds me of Everett McKinley Dirksen who said, "A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money."
Most of the Federal budget is spending over which the government has no control, such as the trillion dollars a year we have to pay for interest on our debt. Maybe you think we should cut Social Security to pay for more medical research, eh? How about education?

Those universities have large endowments because their alumna understand the value of what they do

If they have $40 or $50 billion, they're not doing much with it. They're spending kids' tuition and your taxes.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

OK. How does a shrimp on a treadmill contribute to all of that? Or are you saying that all medical research is good and valuable.

I don't know exactly how that research contributed, but I do know that the grant was peer-reviewed by other scientists in the field, and they deemed it worthy of funding. Only about 5% of grants get funded, so the competition is fierce.

Edit:

While there is certainly some research that didn't pan out, even the failures tell other scientists something. Grant applications build heavily on past research; they always have long lists of citations that support their intended research.

If all research were free, or if we had an unlimited amount of debt-free money I'd be the first to agree. But I now have a metastasized cancer and have survived two other forms of cancer, and I can I tell you something you may not know; This isn't a perfect world. There is optimism that AI may help to develop treatments and possibly cures, giving us more "bang for the buck." Let's hope so.

I am sorry to hear that you have, and had, cancer. It touches us all, which is all the more reason to put more funding into it, not less.

AI, btw, only knows what people have learned over the years. It may be useful for uncovering otherwise unknown connections (there is just too much literature for any scientist to truly cover all the relevant papers), but it will never replace people in labs doing experiments.

And the government has all the money it needs. Ever hear of them running out? Not for wars, and not for crises. They could easily fund 10X what they are funding now and it would be a rounding error in the federal budget.

<CHUCKLE> That reminds me of Everett McKinley Dirksen who said, "A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money."
Most of the Federal budget is spending over which the government has no control, such as the trillion dollars a year we have to pay for interest on our debt. Maybe you think we should cut Social Security to pay for more medical research, eh? How about education?

Interest on the debt just goes to bondholders. It's not true, household-type debt. A government with its own currency is self-funding. So not only do we not need to cut anything, we should spend more. It's all income to somebody. Deficit spending adds to GDP.

If they have $40 or $50 billion, they're not doing much with it. They're spending kids' tuition and your taxes.

Those universities are doing great research that you are probably completely unaware of. I would think that someone who has survived cancer twice, hopefully three times, would appreciate what went into their treatment.

Research is expensive. A portion of every grant goes to the university for lab space and common equipment. (That portion is something that trump changed because of his anger at Harvard.) Good facilities and support are what attracts the best scientists. Only the best get to work at Harvard and Stanford. It takes money.

 

[Lursa]

That's up to them to decide.

So there's no reason for them to charge him with human trafficking or human smuggling in the US. Thanks, I didnt think so.

 

[JoeB131]

No, I mean iI have serious reservations about the conditions under which Trump was convicted.

I have serious reservations about the charges against Garcia. Come on, giving some guys a ride to a job is "human smuggling"? Really? Oh, yeah, and we are going to give convicted felons parole if they promise to testify that, yup, Garcia was the guy who gave me a ride somewhere.

Trump did what he did. Too bad we didn't know about it before the election of 2016, but we didn't. It was still against the law, and other people went to jail for their roles in facilitating it.

And therein lies the crux of the "birthright citizenship" issue before the USSC right now. Whatever the status of the child, the parent is an illegal alien and has no right to be in this country. Giving birth does not give her any such rights.

Actually, there's no issue. The constitution is CLEAR on this point and this has been the standard since the Wong decision in 1897.

Even the current bunch of fanatic fascists we have on the court aren't willing to go that far. So they kicked the can down the road yesterday to let Trump keep abusing people. Some point, in the future, they'll probably rule that, no, the constitution says what it says.

Maybe it should have been, and maybe I agree with you but - under the laws at the time - it wasn't.

So in short, you hate foreigners sooooooo much that you are willing to completely **** over a guy who took a bullet for this country and content yourself with saying, "It's the law!"

not sure how you sleep at night.

If a crime isn't serious it has a non-serious designation.
Look, you've got 2-1/2 out of hundreds of thousands. In doing anything with people, things are going to go wrong for some small number. The choice is not to just stop enforcing the law. If a mistake is made the person can sue the government, and won't have any problem finding a lawyer. But there are 330 million people in this country with almost as many ideas about what's fair, or nice. That's why we elect thousands of people, from the smallest town to the Congress, to make laws, hire people to enforce them and establish courts to decide the outcome. We even have Appeals Courts and a Supreme Court, just to try to make sure. Even so, some people will disagree with the result.

Let's get realistic, buddy.

We have 2 million people in prison for breaking "the law". Most of them for non-violent offenses. We have more people locked up than Communist China. (Which in addition to being a bunch of Commies, have five times as many people.)

We have another 7 million people on probation or parole. This means whatever they did, we no longer consider them a real danger to lock them up.

We have another 60 million who have a police record. They were arrested, but either no charges were filed or they were given a slap on the wrist. I guess this would include your hero, Trump.

 

[RetiredAtLast]

I have serious reservations about the charges against Garcia

Of course you do. You're a lib, and libs want all illegal aliens to be left alone: all criminals, in fact.

Actually, there's no issue. The constitution is CLEAR on this point and this has been the standard since the Wong decision in 1897.

The Wong decision was based on the phrase, "... and under the jurisdiction thereof." That leaves the question of legislative intent.
As a side issue, it also creates the problem of what to do about citizen infants when illegal alien parents are to be deported. Will the parents decide that the citizen infant will leave the country as well, or will families be separated? A heart-rending choice for most parents.

So in short, you hate foreigners sooooooo much that you are willing to completely **** over a guy who took a bullet for this country and content yourself with saying, "It's the law!"

No, but I am somewhat less sympathetic because of his drug conviction.

We have 2 million people in prison for breaking "the law". Most of them for non-violent offenses.

How many people are in prison for non-violent offenses, and what are their offenses?

We have another 7 million people on probation or parole. This means whatever they did, we no longer consider them a real danger to lock them up.

Good. And if they abide by their terms of probation or parole they'll stay out of prison. Would you prefer that they remained in prison?

We have another 60 million who have a police record.

What level of police record? Traffic tickets?

You chose to make this an issue. Are you willing to provide credible facts to support it?

 

[What if...?]

Why care? His greatest crime is being sucked into something Trump ****ed up.

So “trumped up charges?”

 

[What if...?]

I'm afraid the publicity given to him has caused the focus. But why do libs want to keep him in this country?

“When they came in the night in masks for the immigrants I said nothing….”