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Trump’s national security actions ‘will not be questioned’

Here it is.

They make three key claims:

First, Minnesota and Washington have Standing to Sue because...

We therefore conclude that the States have alleged harms to their proprietary interests traceable to the Executive Order. The necessary connection can be drawn in at most two logical steps: (1) the Executive Order prevents nationals of seven countries from entering Washington and Minnesota; (2) as a result, some of these people will not enter state universities, some will not join those universities as faculty, some will be prevented from performing research, and some will not be permitted to return if they leave.

which is..... flabbergasting. States can sue because it's possible a foreigner might go to a state school later than they otherwise would have been able to....

Then they decided:

Even if the claims based on the due process rights of lawful permanent residents were no longer part of this case, the States would continue to have potential claims regarding possible due process rights of other persons who are in the United States, even if unlawfully...

Which is equally flabbergasting. Stop a temporary pause in bringing in aliens from war-torn nations who may have violent intent against the security of the United States because of "potential" claims of "possible" due process by illegal aliens?!? Not for nothing does the 9th Circuit have the reputation that it does.

And finally (and, this is the important bit):

The Government has pointed to no evidence that any alien from any of the countries named in the Order has perpetrated a terrorist attack in the United States.



Except that this is completely irrelevant. The President does not need to establish that aliens from a particular country have already conducted attacks in the United States in order to observe a deteriorating security situation / read threat reporting from the Intelligence or Diplomatic Community and make adjustments as necessary - nor is the Judiciary adequate to the task of assessing relative threats nor is that their job.



Now, the law clearly does give that task to the President. Again:

18 USC 1182 (F):

Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Whenever the Attorney General finds that a commercial airline has failed to comply with regulations of the Attorney General relating to requirements of airlines for the detection of fraudulent documents used by passengers traveling to the United States (including the training of personnel in such detection), the Attorney General may suspend the entry of some or all aliens transported to the United States by such airline.​


So, if the Judiciary wanted to take this opportunity to "discover" (where it hasn't before) that 18 USC 1182 (F) violated the Constitution, then that would be an appropriate exercise of Judicial Review.

But this ruling doesn't do that. In fact, as near as I can tell, this ruling does not actually address the law whatsoever. Instead it cites Trump's idiotic statements during the campaign, as though somehow that was legally controlling :roll:

A Court can question the intent of the EO?? Yes- No
Trump in on record for a Muslim ban/ National Registration of all Muslims.
Did his public position undermine the EO, which we know was poorly written by Bannon and Miller, with a side of Rudy G throw in?
 
No. I'm just not that concerned about "statements". I'm more interested in actions. Things are going to hell in the world while we were twiddling our fingers. We're no longer twiddling.

His positions have already squared with his intentions. Also, he's the president of the United States, so ignoring his statements isn't an option.
 
It was just reported about 45 minutes ago that the Trump administration has filed an appeal with the 9th Circus en banc, which I think means they are appealing it to a wider set of judges on the 9th circus. There will be a hearing at 6:00 PM.
 
His positions have already squared with his intentions. Also, he's the president of the United States, so ignoring his statements isn't an option.

Obama said if I liked my doctor, I could keep my doctor. There's a blatant lie for you.
 
In case anybody is unclear on why a sizable number of Americans are feeling a little jumpy lately about Trump's long term plans regarding the separation of powers, in addition to Trump's own repeated comments on fictional voting fraud results, the judiciary and the "fake news," you've also got this gem from Stephen Miller, Trump's senior adviser: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...onal-security-actions-will-not-be-questioned/ But Republicans are getting their Dodd-Frank repeal, the dismantling of the EPA, the elimination of Net Neutrality, the end of climate research and the soon to be dismantling of public education, so it's all good.
You forgot to mention enforcing immigration laws. I didn't read the article. It's from WaPo. Can't trust WaPo anymore than Infowars or NYT.
 
Indeed they did. Here is the text.

you'll note that they make their decision based not least on:

The Government has pointed to no evidence that any alien from any of the countries named in the Order perpetrated a terrorist attack in the United States. Rather
than present evidence to explain the need for the Executive Order, the Government has taken the position that we must not review its decision at all. We disagree, as explained above.

They explicitly argued that they had the right to insert their judgments for the Executives on the particulars of an issue that is left to the Executive to decide. They no more have the right to do this than the Executive does to decide what rules a chamber of the Legislature shall rule itself by. The Court is not competent to making national security decisions regarding risk, nor is that their job.

Why could the Admin not provide evidence? Courts can review classified documents.
This is more like a case, of Trump decides, and the rest must adhere to it.
 
Obama said if I liked my doctor, I could keep my doctor. There's a blatant lie for you.

Fantabulous. Are you suggesting that when his administration outright claims that future executive orders will be above media, legislative and judicial scrutiny, that should be ignored?
 
You forgot to mention enforcing immigration laws. I didn't read the article. It's from WaPo. Can't trust WaPo anymore than Infowars or NYT.

You may want to read the article. They even provide a clip where you can watch Miller saying it.
 
It was just reported about 45 minutes ago that the Trump administration has filed an appeal with the 9th Circus en banc, which I think means they are appealing it to a wider set of judges on the 9th circus. There will be a hearing at 6:00 PM.

So they aren't rewriting the EO?
 
You know, unless the strategy of this White House is burnout, you gotta just cool it. We aren't a month in and this administration is already exhausting.
 
You know, unless the strategy of this White House is burnout, you gotta just cool it. We aren't a month in and this administration is already exhausting.

What you're talking about is a constant source of debate, and I've heard people on both sides of that discussion argue their positions pretty convincingly.

One position states that if people don't pace themselves they're going to become truly exhausted (and not just the "man, I am so sick of hearing Trump's name" type of exhaustion we all suffered a solid year ago), and retreat into indifference in order to protect the last vestiges of their sanity.

Another position, briefly summed up, is that maintaining outrage is specifically what people are supposed to do else they risk normalizing things that were once absolutely scandal worthy. And that as unsustainable as this may initially sound, it's what's necessary in light of these highly unusual and critical times in order have the proper focus and mobilization come mid term elections.

The Tea Party is cited nearly every day as a successful model for resistance against an administration as well as a driving force for one's own ideological agenda. If that's true, which of the above two positions did they opt for, or how did they balance the two if they opted for a mixture of them?
 
So they aren't rewriting the EO?

They are requesting a re-hearing with eleven jurists out of a pool of about 40 be chosen. I personally believe this has to do with the government atty who was clearly not prepared in presenting the case.
 
Clearly, you did not. Until you deign to read it then I am done with you.

Pretty much everyone else in this thread has already pointed out your error in interpreting the article you quoted.

I'm not going to go through the effort repeating what's already been said. At this point you are either incapable or unwilling to see how your interpretation is not based on an accurate reading of the text and it's very unlikely further efforts to help you see it will succeed.

You seem unusually determined to be wrong.
 
Obama upended the entire healthcare system by himself in dictatorial fashion. That was never the purpose of the executive order.

But he let that cow out of the barn, and you'll probably never get it back in.

LOL, yes, like a dictator, with a majority in the House and a super majority in the Senate, or exactly as the system is set up to pass major legislation.

I mean, come on, that's ridiculous. :roll:
 
Are you suggesting that when his administration outright claims that future executive orders will be above media, legislative and judicial scrutiny, that should be ignored?

Trump's administration didn't claim that.
 
Pretty much everyone else in this thread has already pointed out your error in interpreting the article you quoted.

I'm not going to go through the effort repeating what's already been said. At this point you are either incapable or unwilling to see how your interpretation is not based on an accurate reading of the text and it's very unlikely further efforts to help you see it will succeed.

You seem unusually determined to be wrong.

If by "pretty much everybody else" you're referring to the same four or five people who won't actually read the OP in order to hold on to the fantasy that Stephen Miller didn't say the thing that he said, then yes, "pretty much everybody else" has pointed out the error.
 
If by "pretty much everybody else" you're referring to the same four or five people who won't actually read the OP in order to hold on to the fantasy that Stephen Miller didn't say the thing that he said, then yes, "pretty much everybody else" has pointed out the error.

Of course whether someone has read the article or not can only be determined by comparing what the article actually says to that person's claims about what the article says.

So it is up to not just those participating in the thread but to those just reading it as well to decide whether "the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned" is the same as "you will not question [Trump's] executive orders" and so determine who has really read the article or just read the article they imagined being there.
 
In case anybody is unclear on why a sizable number of Americans are feeling a little jumpy lately about Trump's long term plans regarding the separation of powers, in addition to Trump's own repeated comments on fictional voting fraud results, the judiciary and the "fake news," you've also got this gem from Stephen Miller, Trump's senior adviser:



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...onal-security-actions-will-not-be-questioned/

But Republicans are getting their Dodd-Frank repeal, the dismantling of the EPA, the elimination of Net Neutrality, the end of climate research and the soon to be dismantling of public education, so it's all good.

Clown car heading straight for a cliff is how I see it. I just hope the damage is contained to the GOP, and the blow back for the rest of us is not too severe.
 
Stephen Miller was quite clear: you will not question is executive orders.

Which is utter nonsense, both the judicial branch of government as well as congress/senate are there to not only question executive orders but if needed are there to alter/correct or even scrap executive orders. Trump may believe he is King Donald the first of Trumplandia but sadly for him he is (just) the president of the United States and he is bound by the constitution and he is not immune from lawsuits bringing down his executive orders.
 
What does "will not be questioned" mean to you?

Out of context it means nothing. In the context of "the powers of the president to protect our country ... will not be questioned" it means just that.

It certainly does not mean that "future executive orders will be above media, legislative and judicial scrutiny" or that "you will not question [Trump's] executive orders".
 
You may want to read the article. They even provide a clip where you can watch Miller saying it.
I am just commenting on all the issues that Cardinal listed. I am also not trusting of WaPo. I didn't comment on anything that is included in the article. I am pretty sure I don't want to read anything from WaPo. As I said before, they are as invalid as Infowars and the NYT.
 
If it is found to be unconstitutional, it can be overturned. That would be the basis. t.

Which begs the question. If Congress or the president has the authority for "x" by what basis does the Judiciary review it?
 
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