Treaure Island: Toxic Masculinity?

[RobertU]

Walt Disney’s 1950 production of Treasure Island, a rousing adventure tale of pirates and buried treasure, would not hold up well by today’s politically correct standards. Yo ho yikes! Child endangerment and then some.

(Spoiler alert) Long John Silver befriends a young lad, Jim Hawkins, giving him a loaded one-shot pistol. The boy lovingly caresses the barrel of the gun before concealing it in his waistband. The weapon later plays a critical role in a premature mutiny and Jim eventually uses the gun to kill a pirate.

The mother, unseen, apparently has no problems allowing the boy to take a long sea voyage with an all-male crew of mostly lowlifes. Gee, what could go wrong?
Though wounded, Jim at the end of the movie is in good spirits. None of that cry-baby post-traumatic stress. Aye, the lads of yore were made of sterner stuff than today’s youth.

 

[ecofarm]

Stuff from 70 years ago is always ****ed up. Not for the stupid crap the OP objects to. Crazy tales continue unabated throughout history.

Stuff from 70 years ago is ****ed up compared to the social awareness of today. As far as letting little kids go on crazy adventures, those stories are still a part of our culture. That's about people being capable of more than they themselves expect. It's about human triumph over seemingly impossible odds. That reasonable fantasy should not be confused with why entertainment from 70 years ago is ****ed up.

 

[Felis Leo]

Walt Disney’s 1950 production of Treasure Island, a rousing adventure tale of pirates and buried treasure, would not hold up well by today’s politically correct standards. Yo ho yikes! Child endangerment and then some.

(Spoiler alert) Long John Silver befriends a young lad, Jim Hawkins, giving him a loaded one-shot pistol. The boy lovingly caresses the barrel of the gun before concealing it in his waistband. The weapon later plays a critical role in a premature mutiny and Jim eventually uses the gun to kill a pirate.

The mother, unseen, apparently has no problems allowing the boy to take a long sea voyage with an all-male crew of mostly lowlifes. Gee, what could go wrong?
Though wounded, Jim at the end of the movie is in good spirits. None of that cry-baby post-traumatic stress. Aye, the lads of yore were made of sterner stuff than today’s youth.

Was there someone of notable relevance who brought up the idea of toxic masculinity or inappropriateness or described Treasure Island as "problematic" (the new code word for things that need to be erased from the public sphere)?

 

[Rexedgar]

Stuff from 70 years ago is always ****ed up. Not for the stupid crap the OP objects to. Crazy tales continue unabated throughout history.

Stuff from 70 years ago is ****ed up compared to the social awareness of today. As far as letting little kids go on crazy adventures, those stories are still a part of our culture. That's about people being capable of more than they themselves expect. It's about human triumph over seemingly impossible odds. That reasonable fantasy should not be confused with why entertainment from 70 years ago is ****ed up.

Things are great now; all cartoons and super heroes! /s

 

[ecofarm]

Things are great now; all cartoons and super heroes! /s

I'm as anti establishment as the next guy, but social change is not a mystery to me. And I don't confuse social change with mundane story lines. It's idiotic to pretend the problem with old entertainment is children going on impossible adventures. That still f ****ing happens. That's not the ****ing problem. So stupid.

It's like the OP's purpose is to bury the real problems in ancient entertainment and, instead of dealing with those, cry man-victim.

 

[WillyPete]

It's a great favorite of mine, and a model upon which such books as Harry Potter or any number of other youth fiction series are based.

I also enjoyed the more recent TV series Black Sails, which many don't realize is a direct prequel of Treasure Island.

Perhaps it's a touch violent. Jim Hawkin's killing was 100% self defense, but there are actual brutal murders in a couple other cases, as well as at least one extended shootout.

I suppose I can see where parents would be concerned that this would get in their own kid's heads, but broadly banning it would be too far.

If these folks really wanted to make a stir, they'd take on Game of Thrones, which makes Treasure Island seem pretty tame.

 

[Rogue Valley]

We hardly ever, if ever, meet the moms of all those mutants that make up the Fantastic Four, X-Men, Wolverine, Iron Man, Black Widow, Black Panther, etc. etc.

Parents usually are, with a few exceptions, merely incidental to the tale. Surprisingly, many Marvel/DC superheroes are a parent themselves.

 

[Rexedgar]

It's a great favorite of mine, and a model upon which such books as Harry Potter or any number of other youth fiction series are based.

I also enjoyed the more recent [BTV series Black Sails, which many don't realize is a direct prequel of Treasure Island.[/B]

Perhaps it's a touch violent. Jim Hawkin's killing was 100% self defense, but there are actual brutal murders in a couple other cases, as well as at least one extended shootout.

I suppose I can see where parents would be concerned that this would get in their own kid's heads, but broadly banning it would be too far.

If these folks really wanted to make a stir, they'd take on Game of Thrones, which makes Treasure Island seem pretty tame.

I don’t have whatever channel that airs Black Sails; it looked interesting. Your post confuses me, if Jim Hawkins is killed, how can it be a prequel?

 

[WillyPete]

I don’t have whatever channel that airs Black Sails; it looked interesting. Your post confuses me, if Jim Hawkins is killed, how can it be a prequel?

Well, now I'm confused. Awkward phrasing, perhaps. It was Jim's killing in that he killed a pirate in self defense. This happened in Treasure Island.

Jim Hawkins doesn't appear in Black Sails (he was a child in Treasure Island, so wasn't born yet,) though many other Treasure Island characters do. Black Sails is the story of how Captain Flint got the treasure to the island, for Jim and the rest to later go after. We also get to see Long John Silver's advent as a pirate.

 

[Rexedgar]

Well, now I'm confused. Awkward phrasing, perhaps. It was Jim's killing in that he killed a pirate in self defense. This happened in Treasure Island.

Jim Hawkins doesn't appear in Black Sails (he was a child in Treasure Island, so wasn't born yet,) though many other Treasure Island characters do. Black Sails is the story of how Captain Flint got the treasure to the island, for Jim and the rest to later go after. We also get to see Long John Silver's advent as a pirate.

Thanks for the clarification! What service aired the series? I always was partial the the Wallace Beery or was it Noah, Noah was “Rockford Files”, iirc, depiction of LJS.



Edit: B&W from 1934, Treasure Island

 

[WillyPete]

Thanks for the clarification! What service aired the series? I always was partial the the Wallace Beery or was it Noah, Noah was “Rockford Files”, iirc, depiction of LJS.



Edit: B&W from 1934, Treasure Island

Black Sails was originally on Starz. It's run it's course (3 seasons, I think) and it's up on streaming services. I see some indication it is available for free on YouTube, or was.

It's very much the adult version of Treasure Island. They have a keel hauling that seems to go on forever, and it's about as brutal a thing as I've ever seen.

 

[zyzygy]

Walt Disney’s 1950 production of Treasure Island, a rousing adventure tale of pirates and buried treasure, would not hold up well by today’s politically correct standards. Yo ho yikes! Child endangerment and then some.

(Spoiler alert) Long John Silver befriends a young lad, Jim Hawkins, giving him a loaded one-shot pistol. The boy lovingly caresses the barrel of the gun before concealing it in his waistband. The weapon later plays a critical role in a premature mutiny and Jim eventually uses the gun to kill a pirate.

The mother, unseen, apparently has no problems allowing the boy to take a long sea voyage with an all-male crew of mostly lowlifes. Gee, what could go wrong?
Though wounded, Jim at the end of the movie is in good spirits. None of that cry-baby post-traumatic stress. Aye, the lads of yore were made of sterner stuff than today’s youth.

Fictional youths.

 

[RobertU]

I suppose the larger question is: Does a boy have to confront danger as part of the growing up process? Or is that concept part of a destructive macho culture that should be stifled?

 

[OlNate]

Walt Disney’s 1950 production of Treasure Island, a rousing adventure tale of pirates and buried treasure, would not hold up well by today’s politically correct standards. Yo ho yikes! Child endangerment and then some.

(Spoiler alert) Long John Silver befriends a young lad, Jim Hawkins, giving him a loaded one-shot pistol. The boy lovingly caresses the barrel of the gun before concealing it in his waistband. The weapon later plays a critical role in a premature mutiny and Jim eventually uses the gun to kill a pirate.

The mother, unseen, apparently has no problems allowing the boy to take a long sea voyage with an all-male crew of mostly lowlifes. Gee, what could go wrong?
Though wounded, Jim at the end of the movie is in good spirits. None of that cry-baby post-traumatic stress. Aye, the lads of yore were made of sterner stuff than today’s youth.

*sigh*...educate yourself regarding PTSD throughout history.

https://www.history.com/topics/inventions/history-of-ptsd-and-shell-shock

Turns out humans are "cry babies" all the way back to ancient times... :roll:

I understand the choices made by the directors, though...PTSD, in reality, is heart breaking to watch, and not exactly an easy inclusion in a children's movie.

 

[RAMOSS]

*sigh*...educate yourself regarding PTSD throughout history.

https://www.history.com/topics/inventions/history-of-ptsd-and-shell-shock

Turns out humans are "cry babies" all the way back to ancient times... :roll:

I understand the choices made by the directors, though...PTSD, in reality, is heart breaking to watch, and not exactly an easy inclusion in a children's movie.

It is not easy living with someone with PTSD. There are different levels of it, but seeing a massive panic attack due to a flashback is not fun.

 

[OlNate]

It is not easy living with someone with PTSD. There are different levels of it, but seeing a massive panic attack due to a flashback is not fun.

No, it isn't. I'm sorry you understand that.

 

[RobertU]

*sigh*...educate yourself regarding PTSD throughout history.

https://www.history.com/topics/inventions/history-of-ptsd-and-shell-shock

Turns out humans are "cry babies" all the way back to ancient times... :roll:

I understand the choices made by the directors, though...PTSD, in reality, is heart breaking to watch, and not exactly an easy inclusion in a children's movie.

I was playing, in part, the role of devil’s advocate although some may think I play the part too literally.

The subject of boys in peril reminds me of a recent PBS documentary about a tribe in the Amazon which tied baskets full of fire ants to the hands of young boys. The children run through the village screaming. Nobody, not even the mothers, show any concern.

I decided it would not bother me much if this tribe disappeared from the face of the earth.

 

[OlNate]

I was playing, in part, the role of devil’s advocate although some may think I play the part too literally.

The subject of boys in peril reminds me of a recent PBS documentary about a tribe in the Amazon which tied baskets full of fire ants to the hands of young boys. The children run through the village screaming. Nobody, not even the mothers, show any concern.

I decided it would not bother me much if this tribe disappeared from the face of the earth.

My apologies, had a root canal yesterday, on heavy pain meds today...I missed your devil's advocate approach.

And they were bullet ants, not fire ants...infinitely worse. Seems the more primitive the people, the more necessary it is for males to prove their masculinity. There was a time and a place for it. Glad we've moved past that.

 

[RobertU]

My apologies, had a root canal yesterday, on heavy pain meds today...I missed your devil's advocate approach.

And they were bullet ants, not fire ants...infinitely worse. Seems the more primitive the people, the more necessary it is for males to prove their masculinity. There was a time and a place for it. Glad we've moved past that.

No problem. My facetiousness is not always obvious, which is why I sometimes add the notation (sarcasm).

Sorry to hear about your pain. I've had two root canals by a practitioner whose procedure is tedious but virtually painless.

 

[RobertU]

I suspect macho preening may have something to do with the origin of male circumcision. Circumcised men were telling other tribes “Don’t mess with us. We cut off part of our sex organs. We’re furious, bat**** crazy.”

Trump’s partial mutilation of the federal government may be his way of saying “Don’t mess with me. I’m furious, bat**** crazy.”

 

[Rexedgar]

I suspect macho preening may have something to do with the origin of male circumcision. Circumcised men were telling other tribes “Don’t mess with us. We cut off part of our sex organs. We’re furious, bat**** crazy.”

Trump’s partial mutilation of the federal government may be his way of saying “Don’t mess with me. I’m furious, bat**** crazy.”

Bat guano logic if I ever saw it........:shock:

 

[Ouroboros]

I suppose the larger question is: Does a boy have to confront danger as part of the growing up process? Or is that concept part of a destructive macho culture that should be stifled?

What happens in fiction can stay in fiction, if society isn't stupid about repressing it.

 

[Brochacholomigo]

I suspect macho preening may have something to do with the origin of male circumcision. Circumcised men were telling other tribes “Don’t mess with us. We cut off part of our sex organs. We’re furious, bat**** crazy.”

Trump’s partial mutilation of the federal government may be his way of saying “Don’t mess with me. I’m furious, bat**** crazy.”

Actually, it was primarily because keeping your penis clean enough that you won't die from a septic smegma build-up is more difficult in the desert. In theory, at least.

 

[Mr Person]

I suspect macho preening may have something to do with the origin of male circumcision. Circumcised men were telling other tribes “Don’t mess with us. We cut off part of our sex organs. We’re furious, bat**** crazy.”

No...