• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Trayvon Martin’s social media posts may come up at trial [W: 980]

Status
Not open for further replies.
If his head was moved back and forth then it would have been huge scrapes along with any cuts...not just gashes.

and the cuts would not be at 90 degree angle to one another. that is the key bit of information here. it would take an exceptionally rare set of circumstances to cause two cuts 90 degrees rotated by falling against the sidewalk.
 
There should be no charge whatsoever
There should be no charge whatsoever?

It's unbelievable this kind of comment still pops up every now and then everywhere. People like these are devoid of any sense of justice whatsoever. No matter how much info that have come out about Zimmerman and this case in which the judge had already said he saw probable cause, some people still couldn't wait for the trial and want to insist on holding to their cause of defending Zimmerman at all cost based solely on his claim no matter how unrealistic his story sound.

It's boggles the mind that there are still people out there who still believe Zimmerman should just walk free even after killing someones' unarmed child walking to and from the store to the house while minding his own business.

It is also very disturbing to hear such totalitarian attitude that one cannot and must not look at houses while walking down the street on the pain of death. What has our society now degenerated and spiral down into?

The only way to get them see their warped sense of justice is to have this same tradgedy befell upon their sons, daughters or any of their loved ones. Until then they will steadfast refuse to understand that parents who lost their child, killed by a gunman while walking home with a candy and ice tea. would want some answer through our justice system.

But, then again not. They are so into themselves with their deplorable moral state of discordance that they might just beg or insist the police chief and the DA not charge their son's or daughter's killer if the killer simply claimed self-defense. Yep, they would accept wholeheartedly without question the killer's account as fact and evidence their sons or daughters were up to no good and deserved the death. No need for charge, let alone trial. Let the killer just walk.

It would be nice to see them practice what they preached and maybe, just maybe I would agree with them wholeheartedly just for them in their case only.
 
There should be no charge whatsoever?

It's unbelievable this kind of comment still pops up every now and then everywhere. People like these are devoid of any sense of justice whatsoever. No matter how much info that have come out about Zimmerman and this case in which the judge had already said he saw probable cause, some people still couldn't wait for the trial and want to insist on holding to their cause of defending Zimmerman at all cost based solely on his claim no matter how unrealistic his story sound.

It's boggles the mind that there are still people out there who still believe Zimmerman should just walk free even after killing someones' unarmed child walking to and from the store to the house while minding his own business.

It is also very disturbing to hear such totalitarian attitude that one cannot and must not look at houses while walking down the street on the pain of death. What has our society now degenerated and spiral down into?

The only way to get them see their warped sense of justice is to have this same tradgedy befell upon their sons, daughters or any of their loved ones. Until then they will steadfast refuse to understand that parents who lost their child, killed by a gunman while walking home with a candy and ice tea. would want some answer through our justice system.

But, then again not. They are so into themselves with their deplorable moral state of discordance that they might just beg or insist the police chief and the DA not charge their son's or daughter's killer if the killer simply claimed self-defense. Yep, they would accept wholeheartedly without question the killer's account as fact and evidence their sons or daughters were up to no good and deserved the death. No need for charge, let alone trial. Let the killer just walk.

It would be nice to see them practice what they preached and maybe, just maybe I would agree with them wholeheartedly just for them in their case only.


I can see your POV to some degree. whenever something like this happens, it is natural for people to want someone to be guilty and for someone to pay for what happened. But there are cases where someone is killed and there is no one "to blame" or no one committed a crime. If I am driving my car and someone steps out into traffic and I hit and kill them..should I go to jail simply because I killed them or because "I should have been paying closer attention"?

IMHO, I think this was a tragic set of circumstances, that led to martin's death. unless the state can prove that zimmerman was committing some illegal action, he is not guilty. there are cases where you can kill someone and not be guilty of a crime.
 
Last edited:
I can see your POV to some degree. whenever something like this happens, it is natural for people to want someone to be guilty and for someone to pay for what happened. But there are cases where someone is killed and there is no one "to blame" or no one committed a crime. If I am driving my car and someone steps out into traffic and I hit and kill them..should I go to jail simply because I killed them or because "I should have been paying closer attention"?

IMHO, I think this was a tragic set of circumstances, that led to martin's death. unless the state can prove that zimmerman was committing some illegal action, he is not guilty. there are cases where you can kill someone and not be guilty of a crime.
Your car accident analogy of someone stepping into the trafic would require that Martin stepped into Zimmerman's business of driving to the store. Martin was simply walking home, first on the sidewalk then on the concrete path between two buildings to avoid Zimmerman who was following him in his car before he got out.
 
Your car accident analogy of someone stepping into the trafic would require that Martin stepped into Zimmerman's business of driving to the store. Martin was simply walking home, first on the sidewalk then on the concrete path between two buildings to avoid Zimmerman who was following him in his car before he got out.

and zimmerman was simply following someone who, to him, looked suspicious. nothing illegal about that


hypothetical question: If martin had noticed zimmerman following him and, in his attempt to evade, ran into traffic and been killed....would zimmerman be guilty of murder?
 
Last edited:
Did I say it was something illegal?

you are saying that zimmerman illegally killed martin. I am just trying to determine what makes you so sure. up until the point when he pulled the trigger...what illegal action did zimmerman commit? if there was none, then his claim of self-defense is reasonable.

that Martin may have over-reacted to zimmerman's perfectly legal actions does not make zimmerman guilty of any crime.
 
you are saying that zimmerman illegally killed martin. I am just trying to determine what makes you so sure. up until the point when he pulled the trigger...what illegal action did zimmerman commit? if there was none, then his claim of self-defense is reasonable.

that Martin may have over-reacted to zimmerman's perfectly legal actions does not make zimmerman guilty of any crime.
Where did I ever say Zimmerman "illegally killed martin"? Please try not to put words in people's mouth.

Whether Zimmerman's "claim of self-defense is reasonable" or not is not for you to decide. It's for the jury to decide. That's why to say there should be no charge whatsoever is preposterous.
 
Where did I ever say Zimmerman "illegally killed martin"? Please try not to put words in people's mouth.

Whether Zimmerman's "claim of self-defense is reasonable" or not is not for you to decide. It's for the jury to decide. That's why to say there should be no charge whatsoever is preposterous.

please, it is obvious from your postings that you think zimmerman is guilty. I am just trying to determine the evidence that you are basing your opinion on.

if the preliminary investigation didn't turn up enough evidence to warrant an arrest or there was not enough evidence to give the DA confidence that they could secure a conviction then there never should have been a charge.

charging someone with a crime, simply to quell public outrage is wrong.

If martin had not been black or if zimmerman was black this never would've been anything other than a local news story, forgotten after a few days by everyone except martin's family.

there are "crimes" committed every day in which no one is ever charged because there is not enough evidence to warrant an arrest or the circumstances don't warrant an arrest.
 
and zimmerman was simply following someone who, to him, looked suspicious. nothing illegal about that


hypothetical question: If martin had noticed zimmerman following him and, in his attempt to evade, ran into traffic and been killed....would zimmerman be guilty of murder?

If Martin had gotten killed by traffic it would then be up to the court to decide how much of a fear of death did he feel and what were Zimmerman's part in that. If Zimmerman was on foot chasing him with a butcher knife and Martin darted in front of a truck that would be obvious Zimmmerman's total fault.

The fear of death is very hard to gauge although many here havesaid Zimmerman is innocent because he was in fear of death. Without being there I don't really know how you can measure that.

For another scenario, what if Martin took off running away from Zimmerman and he sped up his car and struck a child on the street killing him. Would Zimmerman be guilty?
 
There should be no charge whatsoever?

With the facts that I have before me...no Zimmerman should not be charged. Do we have all the facts? I don't know, but i'm inclined to say no. It is quite obvious to me that both Martin and Zimmerman were doing nothing illegal until the very moment that the fight broke out. So my only question in all this is "who threw the first punch"? The only evidence that we have in front of us says it was Martin. Combined with the gashes on the back of Zimmermans head and I can see a serious case of self defense.

It's unbelievable this kind of comment still pops up every now and then everywhere. People like these are devoid of any sense of justice whatsoever.

You are claiming that justice is needed for Trayvon...but what about justice for Zimmerman? Justice is a two sided sword ya know. If Zimmerman gets convicted of something which he should have been innocent of (or at least not guilty) is that really justice? Or is it revenge? Just because someone dies in a shooting does not mean that we should automatically throw the shooter in prison.

No matter how much info that have come out about Zimmerman and this case in which the judge had already said he saw probable cause, some people still couldn't wait for the trial and want to insist on holding to their cause of defending Zimmerman at all cost based solely on his claim no matter how unrealistic his story sound.

The prosecution is trying to use profiling to prove that somehow Zimmerman maliciously killed Martin. Can you name me one person that doesn't profile? If such a thing starts being used to convict every single person that killed in self defense then there is no self defense. There is just murder or the equivilent. The only profiling that should be illegal is that of racial profiling via cops.

It's boggles the mind that there are still people out there who still believe Zimmerman should just walk free even after killing someones' unarmed child walking to and from the store to the house while minding his own business.

First, being unarmed does not mean defenseless or that you cannot kill someone. Second, Zimmerman did not shoot Trayvon because he was walking. He shot him because he was afraid that Trayvon was going to kill him during a fight.

It is also very disturbing to hear such totalitarian attitude that one cannot and must not look at houses while walking down the street on the pain of death. What has our society now degenerated and spiral down into?

No one said that he cannot look at houses. A question was asked as to what else he could have been looking at besides houses. It was answered. Singeling this one thing out ignores the conversation and what evidence that we do have. Such as the recent rash of break in's in that area. Can you honestly say that you wouldn't find someone walking along looking at houses suspicious if the same thing happened in your neighborhood? Humans are suspicious by nature. When a rash of criminal activity is happening around them that just hightens their perceptions of what is suspicious and what is not. Even if they are wrong to be suspicious it is still understandable if they are.

The only way to get them see their warped sense of justice is to have this same tradgedy befell upon their sons, daughters or any of their loved ones. Until then they will steadfast refuse to understand that parents who lost their child, killed by a gunman while walking home with a candy and ice tea. would want some answer through our justice system.

I admit right here and now that if the same thing happened to me I could care less about justice. I would want revenge. I also hope right now that someone out there would argue the case like I have been so that reason would prevail and not revenge.

But, then again not. They are so into themselves with their deplorable moral state of discordance that they might just beg or insist the police chief and the DA not charge their son's or daughter's killer if the killer simply claimed self-defense. Yep, they would accept wholeheartedly without question the killer's account as fact and evidence their sons or daughters were up to no good and deserved the death. No need for charge, let alone trial. Let the killer just walk.

Like I just said, if this happened to me I could care less about justice. I would just want revenge. Justice and revenge are not the same thing. Justice is about logic. Revenge is about emotion.

Now, with all this said I quite willingly admit that I do not have all the facts. As such I can only argue this case based upon the facts I do have. And the facts that I have before me does not indicate that Zimmerman should be charged with a crime. Now if there are facts out there that prove me wrong then so be it. I will admit it and won't mind if Zimmerman goes to prison. But we won't know of any additional facts until the trial....much less what they are.
 
If Martin had gotten killed by traffic it would then be up to the court to decide how much of a fear of death did he feel and what were Zimmerman's part in that. If Zimmerman was on foot chasing him with a butcher knife and Martin darted in front of a truck that would be obvious Zimmmerman's total fault.

The fear of death is very hard to gauge although many here havesaid Zimmerman is innocent because he was in fear of death. Without being there I don't really know how you can measure that.

which is why I have said all along that it is entirely possible that both men felt justified in self defense.

martin could have seen zimmerman following him and assumed he was up to no good and then attacked zimmerman when he approached (if that is what happened)
zimmerman could have been following martin and when martin attacked him felt his life was in danger.


For another scenario, what if Martin took off running away from Zimmerman and he sped up his car and struck a child on the street killing him. Would Zimmerman be guilty?

unless he was exceeding the speed limit or was so intent on martin that he wasn't paying attention to where he was going then no
 
please, it is obvious from your postings that you think zimmerman is guilty. I am just trying to determine the evidence that you are basing your opinion on.

if the preliminary investigation didn't turn up enough evidence to warrant an arrest or there was not enough evidence to give the DA confidence that they could secure a conviction then there never should have been a charge.

charging someone with a crime, simply to quell public outrage is wrong.

If martin had not been black or if zimmerman was black this never would've been anything other than a local news story, forgotten after a few days by everyone except martin's family.

there are "crimes" committed every day in which no one is ever charged because there is not enough evidence to warrant an arrest or the circumstances don't warrant an arrest.
Again, you are making a presumption about me not in evidence but yet claimed it was obvious.

All I ever said was there is enough information that I know of that are sufficient for probable cause for some charges on Zimmerman for the killing of Martin to go to trial. As to my own take on this case, I have strong doubt about Zimmerman's claim of self-defense that in my opinion rises beyond probable cause and thus I certainly want this case to be tried in court before the jury so that we all can see for ourselves all the testimonies and evidence, subject to oath and cross-examination.

It is preposterous to say that "if the preliminary investigation didn't turn up enough evidence to warrant an arrest or there was not enough evidence to give the DA confidence that they could secure a conviction then there never should have been a charge." We know the previous police chief and DA botched the case and the special prosecutor had to be appointed to take up the case if not for the public outcry.

Charging someone who was armed and followed a teenager who ended up dead while walking home with a candy and ice tea is proper justice. Not charging him for any wrongdoing based solely on his claim of self-defense that doesn't even sound right is to invite public outrage.

There maybe "crimes" committed every day in which no one is ever charged because there is not enough evidence to warrant an arrest or the circumstances don't warrant an arrest. But, in this case there is more than sufficient probable cause for the arrest and charges of wrongdoing in which the judge had agreed. You are not the judge.






 


 
 
With the facts that I have before me...no Zimmerman should not be charged. Do we have all the facts? I don't know, but i'm inclined to say no. It is quite obvious to me that both Martin and Zimmerman were doing nothing illegal until the very moment that the fight broke out. So my only question in all this is "who threw the first punch"? The only evidence that we have in front of us says it was Martin. Combined with the gashes on the back of Zimmermans head and I can see a serious case of self defense.



You are claiming that justice is needed for Trayvon...but what about justice for Zimmerman? Justice is a two sided sword ya know. If Zimmerman gets convicted of something which he should have been innocent of (or at least not guilty) is that really justice? Or is it revenge? Just because someone dies in a shooting does not mean that we should automatically throw the shooter in prison.



The prosecution is trying to use profiling to prove that somehow Zimmerman maliciously killed Martin. Can you name me one person that doesn't profile? If such a thing starts being used to convict every single person that killed in self defense then there is no self defense. There is just murder or the equivilent. The only profiling that should be illegal is that of racial profiling via cops.



First, being unarmed does not mean defenseless or that you cannot kill someone. Second, Zimmerman did not shoot Trayvon because he was walking. He shot him because he was afraid that Trayvon was going to kill him during a fight.



No one said that he cannot look at houses. A question was asked as to what else he could have been looking at besides houses. It was answered. Singeling this one thing out ignores the conversation and what evidence that we do have. Such as the recent rash of break in's in that area. Can you honestly say that you wouldn't find someone walking along looking at houses suspicious if the same thing happened in your neighborhood? Humans are suspicious by nature. When a rash of criminal activity is happening around them that just hightens their perceptions of what is suspicious and what is not. Even if they are wrong to be suspicious it is still understandable if they are.



I admit right here and now that if the same thing happened to me I could care less about justice. I would want revenge. I also hope right now that someone out there would argue the case like I have been so that reason would prevail and not revenge.



Like I just said, if this happened to me I could care less about justice. I would just want revenge. Justice and revenge are not the same thing. Justice is about logic. Revenge is about emotion.

Now, with all this said I quite willingly admit that I do not have all the facts. As such I can only argue this case based upon the facts I do have. And the facts that I have before me does not indicate that Zimmerman should be charged with a crime. Now if there are facts out there that prove me wrong then so be it. I will admit it and won't mind if Zimmerman goes to prison. But we won't know of any additional facts until the trial....much less what they are.
What makes you think that asking for proper justice in this case is asking for revenge?

Why is it a problem deserving death to walk on the street and looked at houses?

It doesn't matter who threw the first punch. What matters is Zimmerman's claim of self-defense since there is no argument as to who shot and killed Martin. From my perspective, Zimmerman's story just didn't add up. As such, his story should be examined in court. His story, together with all other evidence and witness testimonies, will either exonerate him or convict him.
 
If martin had not been black or if zimmerman was black this never would've been anything other than a local news story, forgotten after a few days by everyone except martin's family.

there are "crimes" committed every day in which no one is ever charged because there is not enough evidence to warrant an arrest or the circumstances don't warrant an arrest.

But if the media tells Sharon to be outraged about THIS crime, dag nabbit, she will be!!
 
We know the previous police chief and DA botched the case and the special prosecutor had to be appointed to take up the case if not for the public outcry.

 


wrong. all we KNOW is that some people claimed the previous police chief and DA botched the case. there is no actual evidence that they did so.

the special prosecutor was appointed only BECAUSE of the public outcry...not due to any evidence of incompetance/racism/impropriety on the part of the previous DA
 
tumblr_m3j6nj32k71qj3f2y.jpg
 
There should be no charge whatsoever?

It's unbelievable this kind of comment still pops up every now and then everywhere. People like these are devoid of any sense of justice whatsoever. No matter how much info that have come out about Zimmerman and this case in which the judge had already said he saw probable cause, some people still couldn't wait for the trial and want to insist on holding to their cause of defending Zimmerman at all cost based solely on his claim no matter how unrealistic his story sound.

It's boggles the mind that there are still people out there who still believe Zimmerman should just walk free even after killing someones' unarmed child walking to and from the store to the house while minding his own business.

It is also very disturbing to hear such totalitarian attitude that one cannot and must not look at houses while walking down the street on the pain of death. What has our society now degenerated and spiral down into?

The only way to get them see their warped sense of justice is to have this same tradgedy befell upon their sons, daughters or any of their loved ones. Until then they will steadfast refuse to understand that parents who lost their child, killed by a gunman while walking home with a candy and ice tea. would want some answer through our justice system.

But, then again not. They are so into themselves with their deplorable moral state of discordance that they might just beg or insist the police chief and the DA not charge their son's or daughter's killer if the killer simply claimed self-defense. Yep, they would accept wholeheartedly without question the killer's account as fact and evidence their sons or daughters were up to no good and deserved the death. No need for charge, let alone trial. Let the killer just walk.

It would be nice to see them practice what they preached and maybe, just maybe I would agree with them wholeheartedly just for them in their case only.

1 - I say we give Zimmerman, the benefit of the doubt. He is innocent until proven guilty according to law *Do you understand this simple concept?* Y or N

2 - I tend to operate more in the logic, provable fact, science realm and you seem to live in that nebulous world of perceptions and feelings. What you think and feel about it is more important than the facts or logic

3 - Are you really a conservative?
 
tumblr_m3j6lyv6Oh1qj3f2y.jpg


This is of course what is being referred to here.

of course, from day one, the MSM has been plastering every article with a picture of sweet little trayvon when he was 12-13 years old. news flash for them, Charlie Manson, Jeffrey Dahlmer, and Adolph Hitler all looked sweet and innocent when they were 12-13 as well.
 
wrong. all we KNOW is that some people claimed the previous police chief and DA botched the case. there is no actual evidence that they did so.

the special prosecutor was appointed only BECAUSE of the public outcry...not due to any evidence of incompetance/racism/impropriety on the part of the previous DA
Like I said, just pray that the same or similar tragic event won't happen to one of your children.

If your daughter was followed by a man while walking in the dark on her way home, then found raped and killed, please do by all means accept the killer's claim of self-defense as fact and evidence.

After all, if there is no evidence to contradict the killer's story, he can say whatever he wanted by simply claiming it was your daughter who seduced him into having sex and then things got out of hand when they got into an argument over money. He could say that your daughter started to hit him, bit him, kicked him and scratched him in the chest and face in an attempt to gouge out his eyes. He could show the police physical evidence of the injuries on his body and face which support his claim of self-defense and you would defend his claim by saying there's no other possible explanation.

I'm sure you would show the media the pictures of your daughter with tattoos in various part of her body and possibly some facebook and twitter pictures showing her in sexually suggestive pose in her lingerie to portray her as prostitute wannabe nymphomaniac deserving to be killed if not stoned to death.

I'm sure you are gonna cry foul and call it irrelevant if the media would to dig out the killer's past history of run-ins with the law, including sexual assault and violence against women that were pleaded down to case closed. And certainly, I'm sure you are going to make sure the police chief and DA let this man walk free without charge.

Until this thing happened to one of your loved ones and you acted according to what you preach, nothing you say will convince me of your position. Until then, I'll consider your points as a mess of oral diarrhea.
 
 
Last edited:
1 - I say we give Zimmerman, the benefit of the doubt. He is innocent until proven guilty according to law *Do you understand this simple concept?* Y or N

2 - I tend to operate more in the logic, provable fact, science realm and you seem to live in that nebulous world of perceptions and feelings. What you think and feel about it is more important than the facts or logic

3 - Are you really a conservative?
You operate more in logic? Don't be a clown.

To give Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt, then there most be a trial in the first place. To then say there should be no charge whatsoever, that's contradicting your logic.

To be conservative is to be reasonable and just. You are neither.
 
Like I said, just pray that the same or similar tragic event won't happen to one of your children.

I pray that the same or similar tragic event won't happen to anyone's child.

If your daughter was followed by a man while walking in the dark on her way home, then found raped and killed, please do by all means accept the killer's claim of self-defense as fact and evidence.

and this is where you are wrong. I am not accepting zimmerman's word at face value. there is actual evidence that supports his claim

I'm sure you would show the media the pictures of your daughter with tattoos in various part of her body and possibly some facebook and twitter pictures showing her in sexually suggestive pose in her lingerie to portray her as prostitute wannabe nymphomaniac deserving to be killed if not stoned to death.

unlike trayvon's parents...I actually monitored what my children did until they turned 18.

I'm sure you are gonna cry foul and call it irrelevant if the media would to dig out the killer's past history of run-ins with the law, including sexual assault and violence against women that were pleaded down to case closed. And certainly, I'm sure you are going to make sure the police chief and DA let this man walk free without charge.

I'm sure you can provide some proof that zimmerman sexually assaulted women

Until this thing happened to one of your loved ones and you acted according to what you preach, nothing you say will convince me of your position. Until then, I'll consider your points as a mess of oral diarrhea.
 

by that logic...until you have been in zimmerman's position, your position is just as much oral diarrhea
 
To be conservative is to be reasonable and just. You are neither.

People like you are an embarrassment to the conservative party. You give it a bad name.

What on Gods green earth is unreasonable about ONLY going by KNOWN FACTS in a case and NOT speculation? :roll:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom